Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

subscribed for info.

I am contemplating purchasing a 4th gen, and it rattles at startup for a few seconds, and has for at least a year (says the guy who currently owns it..he actually says timing chain is loose-exact words). He is willing to sell it to me for a pretty good price, but I want to find a way to make CERTAIN it is just the TC Tensioner and not the TC itself..or something worse.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Estimate the cost of a T/C removal and reinstall and minus it from the cost he's selling it for!

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

That's exactly what I did...took 1500 off his asking, and he is actually in the ballpark of agreement... car has 125k on it, he might let it go for 2500.

MarcL

I am having a similar problem, but my rattle is after the engine is warmed up. I replaced the tensioner (got a replacement from ROCK AUTO, not Nissan OEM- if that matters).

The new tensioner is a bit larger, and the guide has LESS slack even with no oil pressure.

When the engine hot, I took the small plate off (4 bolts) and stuck a screwdriver in there with the engine running to tighten the chain up, and the noise went away.

This is a VQ35 engine, with the VQ30 timing setup and I noticed the tensioner I pulled from the newer VQ35 had a locking clip so it could not loosen. Is there a "newer design" tensioner like this for the VQ30 setup? I think that would fix the problem.

I realize it may be no big deal, but the noise bugs me!

Thanks.

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

This is very interesting and subscribed. I did mine this past summer and mine is already starting back after a few months with a very faint rattle. I was actually thinking that the spring that is in there does not hold a lot of tension over a period of time.

I was about to start looking to see if a stronger spring is possible but now that I see that you stated the 3.5 tensioner has a lock on it, it makes me wonder if it will fit the 3.0 timing or modify it somehow. Can someone post up a picture of the 3.5 timing tensioner?

MarcL

I have both, and can post a photo next week (if I remember).. However, it does not look like it would be easy to modify the 3.5 to fit the 3.0

My hope was Nissan may have updated the 3.0 part to include the clip.

MichMaxFan

I know this is an old thread, but I searched tons and can't find specific pn# info for the 5th gen 3.0 engine. I believe my 2000 tensioner is going and I want to replace it.

However, some suggest swapping the guide and spring with the new assembly part. My question is then, which part to get?

1. Beck/Arnley 0241181 shows no guide with it.
2. Cloyes 95441 (someone on here said cloyes brand was not good??)
3. Hitachi 1307031u0a as shown here: http://www.courtesyparts.com/nissan/...name=tensioner


I don't understand which aspect of the tensioner fails, and why some come w/ the guides and others don't. And what, then, is the best repair route?? Are we supposed to just put old guide on a new housing? If that is the case, what fails in the unit itself, then?

If you cant tell me best pn# solution, please do so.

Thank you.

CS_AR

I had the tensioner replaced on my I30 at approximately 225,000 miles. That resolved the chain slap noise. If you can still get one from the dealer, I think it is better to go OEM on this part. I bought a tensioner to replace the one on my 95 model ending and found the part design has changed. I would talk to Courtesy Nissan before I ordered the part.

MichMaxFan

So did you replace the guide piece as well or just the tensioner itself? Looking for good info before I call Courtesy or someone....just don't want to be mislead by them.

JvG

I feel that you are less likely to be mislead by the dealer than what some of us say.

MichMaxFan

Ok. I'll try Gillman or TriCities Nissan, from what others have said on their own experiences. I don't want to replace this thing twice.

CS_AR

It was just the tensioner on my 1999 model. A local independent shop is owned by a former Infiniti Master Tech. I got him to do the job.

As I recall it was a couple hours labor + the part. One thing he said was the tensioner design changed and he found one using the old style design.

IIRC the new style tensioner requires the guide to be changed -- which is a big job. Hopefully, you can find the right tensioner replacement without having to go the route of guide replacement.

MichMaxFan

Called Ray @ TriCities. He talked me into trying an OEM filter and BG MOA. I've been using wix filters for a long time but he says he's had similar situations fixed w/ just the oem filter.

Cheap try for now. I'll start w/ the filter swap and then try the additive. The weather is still cool so I'll know within a day or so how this works out.

I'll let you guys know my results. Whatever the noise is coming from, warm weather makes it unnoticeable to me. And 40 and below it is clearly there upon startup and can linger for 1-2 minutes if it's like 10 degrees outside.

JvG

Interesting that the noise shows up more at low temperature. The oil is thicker then.

What is BG MOA? Is it an oil treatment like Berryman b 12 or Marvel Mystery oil?

It is possible that you have crud deposits in the oil passage which pressurize the tensioner. I had a lot of hydraulic valve clicking on my 92 Nissan pickup. I added a quart of Marvel Mystery oil the next oil change. The noise went away within 500 miles.

If the crud deposit Is the culprit, your new tensioner might sound the same way.

MichMaxFan

It is an additive but I am not familiar with it other than talking to Ray and looking online today. I have use BG's fuel treatment on a Caravan I had that was running on less than all injectors and it was awesome the job it did on that issue. Haven't found anything bad an BG's products.

If crud is the culprit, then I don't know what to think because I use Castrol for many years now, change oil at 3,000 or so, and have owned the car since it had 52k on it. 160k now.

I will know more this weekend and post back. The additive might take a while to help, though, if it is a solution at all.

CS_AR

I had the classic timing chain slap on the Maxima when the engine was cold. I was really dreading changing the tensioner because I know I will be in for changing the guides also. My 99 model has an engine from a 95 with roughly 90,000 miles now.

So for the last oil change I decided to try an oil that several guys (including me) use with Nissan VH45DE V8 that is Mobil1 0w40. Also, I added a can of BG MOA. That ended the timing chain slap when the engine is cold. So far so good. BTW I've never been big on oil additives.

Yes I know using 0w40 is not the recommended oil weight. I may have received the same results with 5w30. But for now, it seems to like it. If you search on MOA, you'll find some of us on here that use it. I generally use Napa Gold filters that are the same as a Wix. Let us know how MOA worked for you.

JvG

CS-AR, Thank you. I've had good luck with MMO.

I'm advised an oil change with 10-30, with a quart of MMO. Run for 250 miles, perhaps more.

Followed by opening the lower oil pan to check for chunks of timing guides. If no debris, replace the tensioner. If chunks, the timing cover should come off.

I'm basing this on the accepted procedure for the early 90s
Nissan hardbody trucks. They have plastic guides which are known to fail.

Please let us know your opinion.

CS_AR

I've used MMO to clean the inside of my engine. It is a great cleaning solvent and it smells good. It actually contains some wintergreen oil. You can use it to loosen up stuck piston rings and remove carbon in internal areas that you may not be able or want to remove. If you can pour enough into a cylinder through an intake valve to completely fill and effectively soak a cylinder and piston overnight, it will do an amazing job removing carbon and freeing a stuck ring.

I picked up this composition from BITOG.

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color

It's what I used to clean the inside of the lower intake manifold (LIM) without removing it from the engine. You may be able to see the intake valves in the pictures.

MichMaxFan

Update: So after 2 months or so of the BG MOA and OEM filter, the slapping/ticking type noise when cold is still there. Warm weather or warm engine and it purrs nicely.

I am thinking I will have to replace tensioner. SO, is my plan:

1. Find old style oem design?
2. If unavailable, any aftermarket ones suggested?
3. Would it be advisable to change from my 5w30 Castrol to something else?? 162,000miles...seems like I shouldn't go that route.
4. Any other thoughts/tips?
5. I don't want to do this...(

JvG

Since you have nothinge to loose but some time, you might want to remove the existing tensioner.

Take it apart. Clean it, especially internal passeges.

Then stretch the spring 1/8 inch.

Reassemble.

You just might luck out.

If still no joy, remove lower oil pan. If you see chunks of plastic, you will need to replace the guides.

MichMaxFan

Thanks, JVG. That's a good idea. I'll reread the tips on these posts and others and slowly tackle that job. My only real concern is dropping something down in there, but there's been tips on most everything it seems...I'll post back an update probably 2-4 weeks I guess.

JvG

I wedged shop towels and wads of aluminium foil to prevent items from falling in there.

Be aware that the bolts which hold the tensioner on have small washers on them . If you are not careful, they could fall inside.
I loosened the bolts part way, then I sprayed brake cleaner to remove oil. Let dry. Then I used some masking tape to attach the washer to the bolt. This can prevent problems.

Removing and servicing the tensioner is an attempt to remove any bits of crud that can cause sticking. Also insures that oil passages are clear.

Stretching the spring a bit will create more tension on the chain. Possibly the spring tension is restored.

I have a 96. I wanted to keep the old tensioner.

I was in there so that I could do the water pump. I had some timing chain rattle once in a while. It pretty much stopped after tensioner service.

Since tensioner removal is part of the process of replacing the water pump, it would make sense to replace the water pump as preventative maintenance.

MichMaxFan

Water pump...? Oh no, that's on my list too? Hmm....well...wasn't planning to do that but depending on how much more work it is I MIGHT do it.

About how much longer does it take? Consider I am extremely slow, thorough, and have never had to do things twice to make it right. Too much perfectionism in me.

Since I began learning about this tensioner thing, I did always wonder why such a problem with them. Ive never dissected one, but it sounds like just oil passages, piston, and spring. Must be too small of oil passages by design, preventing full pressure on piston which then doesn't extend properly, etc.

Can the spring just be replaced? Assuming F=kx, if we know the constant or close to its value, it seems we could just replace it?? Would it be that critical to not risk that aspect of it?? Just wondering. Stretching it would help, like you had said. But replacing it?

JvG

Since the specs on the spring are unknown, we don't know what to look for.

Regarding the water pump. The only reason I mentioned that is that it will fail sooner or later if it has not been replaced yet.


Replacing the water pump includes all of the steps to replace the tensioner. once the tensioner is out, replacing the pump involves removing the cover, then slipping the chain from the pump sprocket. Followed by replacing the pump. Which is not easy.

If you only service or replace the tensioner, you might have to do it all again at some point in the future.

Your call. You might be lucky, the pump might still be good when you get rid of the car.

MichMaxFan

I've read a long post on water pump replacement. Someone suggests pulling off the entire cover. Could you tell me how much more time would be involved in doing so and would it really be worth it? Saving hours of frustration from a couple hours more work..???

Thanks.

JvG

I have replaced my water pump. The timing cover stays on.

A lot of the work to replace the water pump involves removing stuff, then rotation the engine counter clockwise so that you can revolve the tensioner.

The addional steps to do the water pump as well involve draining the coolant, then the oil. Addional coolant will drain through the oil pan as the pump comes out.

The belt tensioner needs to be removed, them the water pump cover plate. The water pump is driven by the timing chain. Make sure that the chain does not get in the way when removing the pump. Then the pump comes out. I am simplifying the instructions a bit.

The pump is a pita. No other way to describe it. You do not have to do it at this time. But removing the tensioner will need to come out a second time if the water pump ever needs service.

If your plan is to sell the car fairly soon, replacing or servicing just the tensioner makes sense. Your car will sound better and be easier to sell.

If you want to drive the car for several years, you might want to consider replacing the pump at this time. Think about this as you do the tensioner. The question to ask your self is do you want to do it a second time?

It really is up to you.

MichMaxFan

I'm planning to keep the car indefinitely and will certainly think about the water pump as I do the tensioner. Not sure on the pump gamble and hate doing things 2x. I've got valve gaskets, axle, exhaust, and hoses to do too...and 3 other family cars to babysit....sigh. A man's work never ends!

Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your replies.

pixelporsche

iTrader: (1)

Reviving relevant thread.. Hold still. Anyone have a horribly loud chain slap when fully warmed up? I replaced the accessible tensioner and did an oil change to no avail. Just a little bit better. Broken guide?

slfalco

I recently replaced water pump and tensioner, had nasty clacking noise for a good 10 mins before it stopped. there is air in the tensioner that needs to slowly bleed out, it is mentioned in the FSM...

pixelporsche

iTrader: (1)

Same. It sounded horrible! I kept engine at 3k rpms for about 5 minutes. Ive driven about 3 miles so far after replacement and my chain noise is still bad. Time for surgery jim.

slfalco

How many miles? at 200K they recommend a new timing chain set be installed, and that is major surgery... I am at 191K, no issues after the tensioner primed itself...

pixelporsche

iTrader: (1)

192k! Neglected maxima my local importer has imported engines for 995 shipped... Thinking about it... Could do guide as well. But ill probably have to do all guides tensioners and chains..