That really p!$$es me off (kind of long)
09-09-2004, 07:35 AM
#1
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40
That really p!$$es me off (kind of long)
I got my Maxima back from a tune-up, and the mechanic (who is my uncle), told me that the transmission must be flushed in about 1,000 miles. I have a 1998 Maxima SE automatic with 50,500 miles. When I heard this, I thought it was strange, since last year (November 2003) at 45,000 miles I had this done at an Oil Experts location. I told him that the color of the fluid is still bright red, but he said it doesn’t matter since the fluid smells burnt. I didn’t want to argue with him, and believed him right away, since I smelled the same thing, and didn’t think anything of it. Besides, I didn’t want to argue with him, since he has over 30 years experience working on imports like Nissans, and is always honest. He said that he feels strongly that Oil Experts had cheated me, by giving the transmission an additive, which will make the oil red again. Additionally, he explained that transmission oil is never supposed to smell burnt, and what they did could potentially have damaged my transmission, if I drove for longer. He said its ok, and doesn’t slip, but I still am a little worried. So now he put in a special conditioner, which is supposed to help the transmission, but in 1000 miles the whole thing must be flushed. Now I know that he is right, because after getting the flush at Oil Experts, my transmission never increased in performance. I went back a couple of months later, and they said its normal. I am not sure if anyone of you read a post that I wrote “hesitation during acceleration” but I bet that this is the cause of the problem. Now I can say that the shifts are improving, and the car seems to be getting better pick.
Today I was going to get my oil changed at Oil Experts, but will do it myself and not go there anymore. What a rip-off
Today I was going to get my oil changed at Oil Experts, but will do it myself and not go there anymore. What a rip-off
09-09-2004, 08:23 AM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 104
If they didnt do the job you $$$ for that would suck.
But I would not expect better performance anyway from a tranny fluid replacement.
How do you think you 'burnt' your fluid? I thought this only happens from overheating, not from normal use and Nissan recommends flush at 60K.
Did you ever tow anything or do anything to cause overheating like run with low coolent in radiator or low tranny fluid?
But I would not expect better performance anyway from a tranny fluid replacement.
How do you think you 'burnt' your fluid? I thought this only happens from overheating, not from normal use and Nissan recommends flush at 60K.
Did you ever tow anything or do anything to cause overheating like run with low coolent in radiator or low tranny fluid?
09-09-2004, 08:50 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40
Well here is the thing...I always checked my fluid level and it was fine, but when those morons at Oil Experts performed a flush, they used the wrong oil as I think. They were supposed to use Dexron 3/Mercon (as it says in the manual), and when I checked the sales invoice for the service it lists TITAN Mt RX 80. I am not sure what type that is, but hope that mt doesn't stand for manual transmission. Mine is automatic. I went back and asked after the service last November, and they claim its fine. If something happens, I have proof.
09-09-2004, 09:12 AM
#5
I guess I need to get th tx liquid in my car flushed. Can you recommend if I can get it done at places like Jiffy Lube or Pep Boys, or do we need to goto the dealer or road-side mechanic.
Thanks.
Thanks.
09-09-2004, 11:03 AM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 285
Actually, ALL ATF always smells burned or hot. Its just the nature of the beast.
Its a common misconception that ATF should not smell burnt, but when temps regularly hit 150-200 degrees in your tranny and the job of the ATF is to lubricate slipping clutch plates, cool the tranny, and keep things at a happy medium in your AT, then of course its going to smell that way.
Ask any reputable shop and they will tell you the same.
Its a common misconception that ATF should not smell burnt, but when temps regularly hit 150-200 degrees in your tranny and the job of the ATF is to lubricate slipping clutch plates, cool the tranny, and keep things at a happy medium in your AT, then of course its going to smell that way.
Ask any reputable shop and they will tell you the same.
09-09-2004, 11:28 AM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 104
Searched google for TITAN Mt RX 80 and came up with the following. If your invoice is correct and this is really what you have in there its a gear oil not ATF.
TITAN Gear RX 80
A transmission lubricant suitable for use in most manual transmissions where improved low temperature gear shift is required.
Can be used in the manual transmission of most manufacturers, including Mitsubishi, Nissan, Ford, GMH, Toyota and Mazda. Suitable for use in most front wheel drive vehicles.
Specifications:
SAE 80W API GL-3/GL-4
TITAN Gear RX 80
A transmission lubricant suitable for use in most manual transmissions where improved low temperature gear shift is required.
Can be used in the manual transmission of most manufacturers, including Mitsubishi, Nissan, Ford, GMH, Toyota and Mazda. Suitable for use in most front wheel drive vehicles.
Specifications:
SAE 80W API GL-3/GL-4
09-09-2004, 11:43 AM
#8
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40
Thanks a lot hurleybob! I also did the same search through google just today. Yes, that is what it says on the invoice: Exactly " fluid replaced - TITAN Mt RX 80". I knew I should have looked into it a lot sooner, but didn't pay attention to the detail of the type of fluid listed on the paper. Sh#!, now my transmission may die sooner, or something else can happen. I got that page saved under my links, and will certainly pay Oil Experts a visit today. They are not doing any more service on my car, until I find out more from people. Thanks again.
You guys wrote that it is normal for oil to smell burnt, and I can agree to that. However, the oil smelled so bad even when the car was in the garage. The hood was closed, and you did not have to take the transmission dipstick out. That is how bad it reeked.
You guys wrote that it is normal for oil to smell burnt, and I can agree to that. However, the oil smelled so bad even when the car was in the garage. The hood was closed, and you did not have to take the transmission dipstick out. That is how bad it reeked.
09-09-2004, 12:02 PM
#9
You should keep up updated on that...I would like to hear them eplain THAT mistake.
I woudl recommend calling first and asking to speak with a manager. If they are a chain, just call the district or regional office.
I woudl recommend calling first and asking to speak with a manager. If they are a chain, just call the district or regional office.
09-09-2004, 12:03 PM
#10
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 285
sounds like the investigating shows the company was at fault for using incorrect fluid.
You will get a new tranny out of this. All the evidence is against them. What would be the nail in the coffin is if you could take a sample of the fluid out of your tranny and have it diagnosed and compared to the MT fluid out of the bottle. If its mostly similar (should have some residual atf in it still), then its an open and shut case and you will have a new tranny.
I wouldn't drain and refill it until you can drive it to the place that did the fluid change and provide them with this information.
Definitely take a sample of it first and see if a buddy can record you on a video camera doing it.
You will get a new tranny out of this. All the evidence is against them. What would be the nail in the coffin is if you could take a sample of the fluid out of your tranny and have it diagnosed and compared to the MT fluid out of the bottle. If its mostly similar (should have some residual atf in it still), then its an open and shut case and you will have a new tranny.
I wouldn't drain and refill it until you can drive it to the place that did the fluid change and provide them with this information.
Definitely take a sample of it first and see if a buddy can record you on a video camera doing it.
09-09-2004, 06:13 PM
#12
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 464
I doubt he can have them pay for a new tranny if even his uncle is telling him that the tranny is fine right now. Unless u got real damage on there I doubt they'll do anything about it, maybe they'll give you a free atf change. I suggest you change the fluid and get over with the whole thing before something gets damaged. just my .02 cents
09-09-2004, 06:14 PM
#13
Guess this helps:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html
I pulled this site from this thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=100060
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html
I pulled this site from this thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=100060
09-09-2004, 08:07 PM
#14
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by NYC_Maxima97
I doubt he can have them pay for a new tranny if even his uncle is telling him that the tranny is fine right now. Unless u got real damage on there I doubt they'll do anything about it, maybe they'll give you a free atf change. I suggest you change the fluid and get over with the whole thing before something gets damaged. just my .02 cents
I would go to the best independent tranny shop in town and tell them your story. Ask your uncle who to go to. Heck maybe even a Nissan dealer. Someone to drain that oil out (have them save it), diagnose what condition the tranny is in, and write up a report on the resulting damage for you to use in court if it comes to that. Then bring the results back to Oil Experts and ask them to pay for any required repairs.
If your lucky there will be no damage, but in case there is you will need a qualified and impartial advocate to back up your claim.
09-09-2004, 08:15 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 750
Well I can tell you a couple things since I used to work for a lube shop. I worked in that trade for almost 6yrs so I have come across almost every problem imaginable & had to deal with very unhappy customers.
1st: ATF (Dextron3 w/mercon) is a very thin lubricant & is bright red. It is very hard to confuse Dextron w/ Gear oil. The reason Dextron is so thin is so it can flow through the tranny fast enough to build up pressure quickly. I'm not saying that mistakes can't happen. But I highly doubt they put gear oil in your transmission. If they did, I can almost guarentee your transmission would have had some major problems within just a few miles. Gear oil is super thick & would have a hard time flowing through a automatic transmission even when the fluid has warmed up. Then you have to realize that the gear oil is gonna be located down in the pit. Not up top where it has to be installed from under the hood to make it's way into the transmission. So that means atleast 2 people had to screw up to put gear oil in a automatic tranny. The guy up top for asking the guy down below for so many quarts of gear oil & the guy below for following directions. I can tell you from first hand knowledge anytime the guy up top has a pitcher full of gear oil in his hands, he's thinking to himself what the hell do I have this **** for? I'm still not saying that this mistake can't happen, it's just highly unlikely. One way to tell for sure is to pull out your transmission dip stick & feel the fluid. If it is thicker then motor oil then they filled your tranny with the wrong fluid. Second, gear oil & transmission fluid have 2 different sents. Old tranny fluid will smell burnt & some what sweet. Old gear oil just plain smells foul, the oder is nasty, kinda makes you wanna gag.
Another dead give away is if your uncle has been a mechanic for 30 + years he would have been able to tell right off the bat that the wrong fluid was in your tranny & would have told you to change it out right away. Not to wait another 1000 miles. Another thing that worry's me about your 30 + year mechanic is that he told you that trans fluid never smells burnt. Well that is absolutley not true. I have done well over 1000 transmission services & almost every single one smelled burnt when I dropped the pan. Transmission fluid smelling burnt is one of the key ways people know it's time to replace the fluid. Another thing that is BS is an additive that turns to fluid red again. I've never heard suck a crock of **** on my life. There is absoluetly no way in the world you are gonna turn dirty brown transmission fluid bright red again. I don't care if the product was developed by nasa. Dirty fluid is dirty fluid.
1st: ATF (Dextron3 w/mercon) is a very thin lubricant & is bright red. It is very hard to confuse Dextron w/ Gear oil. The reason Dextron is so thin is so it can flow through the tranny fast enough to build up pressure quickly. I'm not saying that mistakes can't happen. But I highly doubt they put gear oil in your transmission. If they did, I can almost guarentee your transmission would have had some major problems within just a few miles. Gear oil is super thick & would have a hard time flowing through a automatic transmission even when the fluid has warmed up. Then you have to realize that the gear oil is gonna be located down in the pit. Not up top where it has to be installed from under the hood to make it's way into the transmission. So that means atleast 2 people had to screw up to put gear oil in a automatic tranny. The guy up top for asking the guy down below for so many quarts of gear oil & the guy below for following directions. I can tell you from first hand knowledge anytime the guy up top has a pitcher full of gear oil in his hands, he's thinking to himself what the hell do I have this **** for? I'm still not saying that this mistake can't happen, it's just highly unlikely. One way to tell for sure is to pull out your transmission dip stick & feel the fluid. If it is thicker then motor oil then they filled your tranny with the wrong fluid. Second, gear oil & transmission fluid have 2 different sents. Old tranny fluid will smell burnt & some what sweet. Old gear oil just plain smells foul, the oder is nasty, kinda makes you wanna gag.
Another dead give away is if your uncle has been a mechanic for 30 + years he would have been able to tell right off the bat that the wrong fluid was in your tranny & would have told you to change it out right away. Not to wait another 1000 miles. Another thing that worry's me about your 30 + year mechanic is that he told you that trans fluid never smells burnt. Well that is absolutley not true. I have done well over 1000 transmission services & almost every single one smelled burnt when I dropped the pan. Transmission fluid smelling burnt is one of the key ways people know it's time to replace the fluid. Another thing that is BS is an additive that turns to fluid red again. I've never heard suck a crock of **** on my life. There is absoluetly no way in the world you are gonna turn dirty brown transmission fluid bright red again. I don't care if the product was developed by nasa. Dirty fluid is dirty fluid.
09-09-2004, 09:51 PM
#17
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Yeah, youre right on nostrixoxide. I work at a Jiffy Lube myself. For gear oil to be able to get added to the trans is nearly impossible, our lines for GL5 can't even reach the upstairs. If for some reason it did get in there, it would be completeley obvious not only in driving but by taking one look and smell at the trans dipstick. Its very thick and smell like complete ***. We do trans flushes at least 5 times a day.. it only takes about 5-10 minutes to flush through once every thing is hooked up. It isnt at all a complicated procedure where it would be worth it for them to lie and not do it. Also, the machine can only be filled up with one of two things.. the MerconIII, or regular ATF. Unless the guy downstairs is somehow feeding 4 quarts of GL5 up into the drain plug, I dont think its a possibility that it got in youre trans. The wrong fluid was probably entered onto the work order.
I regularly encounter fluid that still doesnt look new after doing a flush. The buildup of metal shavings and such over the years make it nearly impossible to have completely clean tranny fluid on a 6 year old car. There is also a trans pan service we do, sometimes in conjunction with the flush, that involves taking down the pan, cleaning it out of all the metal shavings, and replacing the filter and pan gasket. A whole lot of crap builds up in that pan, its takes a lot of shop towels to get it shiny again. Having the pan serviced in conjunction with youre flush is definitley important if youre trying to get the cleanest tranny fluid possible. If you dont, all the shavings will just mix back in with the new fluid, making it look not much cleaner that it originally was. If youre lucky, maybe youll get another flush out of them for free. If youre going to do so, I would get the trans pan service as well, that is if they offer it over there. Good luck.
Mike
I regularly encounter fluid that still doesnt look new after doing a flush. The buildup of metal shavings and such over the years make it nearly impossible to have completely clean tranny fluid on a 6 year old car. There is also a trans pan service we do, sometimes in conjunction with the flush, that involves taking down the pan, cleaning it out of all the metal shavings, and replacing the filter and pan gasket. A whole lot of crap builds up in that pan, its takes a lot of shop towels to get it shiny again. Having the pan serviced in conjunction with youre flush is definitley important if youre trying to get the cleanest tranny fluid possible. If you dont, all the shavings will just mix back in with the new fluid, making it look not much cleaner that it originally was. If youre lucky, maybe youll get another flush out of them for free. If youre going to do so, I would get the trans pan service as well, that is if they offer it over there. Good luck.
Mike
09-10-2004, 06:45 AM
#18
Originally Posted by nostrixoxide
Well I can tell you a couple things since I used to work for a lube shop. I worked in that trade for almost 6yrs so I have come across almost every problem imaginable & had to deal with very unhappy customers.
1st: ATF (Dextron3 w/mercon) is a very thin lubricant & is bright red. It is very hard to confuse Dextron w/ Gear oil. The reason Dextron is so thin is so it can flow through the tranny fast enough to build up pressure quickly. I'm not saying that mistakes can't happen. But I highly doubt they put gear oil in your transmission. If they did, I can almost guarentee your transmission would have had some major problems within just a few miles. Gear oil is super thick & would have a hard time flowing through a automatic transmission even when the fluid has warmed up. Then you have to realize that the gear oil is gonna be located down in the pit. Not up top where it has to be installed from under the hood to make it's way into the transmission. So that means atleast 2 people had to screw up to put gear oil in a automatic tranny. The guy up top for asking the guy down below for so many quarts of gear oil & the guy below for following directions. I can tell you from first hand knowledge anytime the guy up top has a pitcher full of gear oil in his hands, he's thinking to himself what the hell do I have this **** for? I'm still not saying that this mistake can't happen, it's just highly unlikely. One way to tell for sure is to pull out your transmission dip stick & feel the fluid. If it is thicker then motor oil then they filled your tranny with the wrong fluid. Second, gear oil & transmission fluid have 2 different sents. Old tranny fluid will smell burnt & some what sweet. Old gear oil just plain smells foul, the oder is nasty, kinda makes you wanna gag.
Another dead give away is if your uncle has been a mechanic for 30 + years he would have been able to tell right off the bat that the wrong fluid was in your tranny & would have told you to change it out right away. Not to wait another 1000 miles. Another thing that worry's me about your 30 + year mechanic is that he told you that trans fluid never smells burnt. Well that is absolutley not true. I have done well over 1000 transmission services & almost every single one smelled burnt when I dropped the pan. Transmission fluid smelling burnt is one of the key ways people know it's time to replace the fluid. Another thing that is BS is an additive that turns to fluid red again. I've never heard suck a crock of **** on my life. There is absoluetly no way in the world you are gonna turn dirty brown transmission fluid bright red again. I don't care if the product was developed by nasa. Dirty fluid is dirty fluid.
1st: ATF (Dextron3 w/mercon) is a very thin lubricant & is bright red. It is very hard to confuse Dextron w/ Gear oil. The reason Dextron is so thin is so it can flow through the tranny fast enough to build up pressure quickly. I'm not saying that mistakes can't happen. But I highly doubt they put gear oil in your transmission. If they did, I can almost guarentee your transmission would have had some major problems within just a few miles. Gear oil is super thick & would have a hard time flowing through a automatic transmission even when the fluid has warmed up. Then you have to realize that the gear oil is gonna be located down in the pit. Not up top where it has to be installed from under the hood to make it's way into the transmission. So that means atleast 2 people had to screw up to put gear oil in a automatic tranny. The guy up top for asking the guy down below for so many quarts of gear oil & the guy below for following directions. I can tell you from first hand knowledge anytime the guy up top has a pitcher full of gear oil in his hands, he's thinking to himself what the hell do I have this **** for? I'm still not saying that this mistake can't happen, it's just highly unlikely. One way to tell for sure is to pull out your transmission dip stick & feel the fluid. If it is thicker then motor oil then they filled your tranny with the wrong fluid. Second, gear oil & transmission fluid have 2 different sents. Old tranny fluid will smell burnt & some what sweet. Old gear oil just plain smells foul, the oder is nasty, kinda makes you wanna gag.
Another dead give away is if your uncle has been a mechanic for 30 + years he would have been able to tell right off the bat that the wrong fluid was in your tranny & would have told you to change it out right away. Not to wait another 1000 miles. Another thing that worry's me about your 30 + year mechanic is that he told you that trans fluid never smells burnt. Well that is absolutley not true. I have done well over 1000 transmission services & almost every single one smelled burnt when I dropped the pan. Transmission fluid smelling burnt is one of the key ways people know it's time to replace the fluid. Another thing that is BS is an additive that turns to fluid red again. I've never heard suck a crock of **** on my life. There is absoluetly no way in the world you are gonna turn dirty brown transmission fluid bright red again. I don't care if the product was developed by nasa. Dirty fluid is dirty fluid.
. I just watch alot of CSI reruns......
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