dibquib

I have been convinced by searching here, input from this forum and my mechanic friend that my flywheel needs to be replaced.

There is lots of good feedback here about the SACHS clutches but none on their flywheel.

At $80 it's a bargain but I don't want to be paying for another one in 6 months due to the cost of pulling the tranny.

Here's a link. It's the 4th one down.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/se...294963897+5798

Anyone have experience with the SACHS flywheels?

whiteSE

iTrader: (2)

i wouldnt get it. it seems to cheap....i have a fidanza in my car, and i barely noticed the proformace diffrence.

and whats wrong with your flywheel? just get it resurfaced

dibquib

It is a low price which is what has given me hesitation but SACHS is a good brand.

There is a shudder when starting out in 1st and in reverse. It has been there since I got the car 160,000kms ago. I recently put in a new clutch kit and it is still there perhaps even worse. I replaced the rear motor mount (firewall side) - no difference.

I had the flywheel resurfaced when I did the clutch. can't think of anything else it could be and those with more experience than I figure the flywheel must be the culprit.

I've got to get this solved 'cause other than the shudder, the car runs like new.

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

What did you have replaced exactly? Could be something wrong with your bearing(s) and/or pressure plate.

dibquib

The kit included new pressure plate; pilot bearing and release bearing. I had the flywheel resurfaced and replaced the slave cylinder just to be safe. I also had all the seals replaced while the tranny was pulled.

This is driving me nuts!

zoner

I'd be interested in finding out if replacing the flywheel got rid of your clutch shudder / chatter. I've got the same problem on my 2001. I resurfaced my flywheel when I replaced the original clutch, then found out the FSM says not to resurface it. Now, about 40K later, I've got problems with inconsistent engagement point and I sometimes have problems with clutch chatter/shudder taking off in 1st and reverse. I'm looking at the Sachs and the Fidenza flywheels - trying to decide between the two. OEM looks like it'll run about $220. I've already ordered an OEM clutch, pp, and throwout bearing from Dave B.

dibquib

I was quoted $450Cdn for a new OEM flywheel up here!
I have ordered up a flywheel from a member here who says the car it came from had no shudder or chatter. It was resurfaced about 5K ago so should be good to go. This one is under $100 and should at least prove if the problem is in fact the flywheel. I'll post the results here once I have made the switch.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

what kind of shape are your motor mounts in. bad motor mounts can allow alot of engine movement that would manifest itself most when you are just starting to move in 1st or reverse.

dibquib

I was hoping that was it.

I had them inspected by my mechanic and even though they looked fine, I replaced the firewall side one just to see what it would do...nothing. It's actually cheaper to replace the flywheel with a known good used one than to replace all the mounts (unless i buy cheap e-bay ones).

I suppose if the flywheel makes no difference, it may be an idea to replace the remaining mounts. Is there a way to know for sure if the mounts are shot? Mine look and feel fine ( 285k kms)

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Well the mounts that would make a difference would be the front and rear ones since the engine rocks forwards and backwards. I'd take a seriously look at those and consider replacing them if they are bad. At almost 200,000 miles or whatever 285,000km works out to, I guarantee they're shot.

I'd look for someone who's parting out their car on the .org and buy theirs, or get some energy suspension mount inserts and have a shop put them in.

dibquib

The shudder has been there since 65k miles when I bought it. The mounts should have been okay then. That is one reason I am thinking (or at least hoping) it is runout on the flywheel

You are likely right that they are shot now. Though, replacing the rear one (firewall) with a new OEM mount and bracket made no difference. The front mount (radiator) may be shot though it appears fine. It is the easier of the two to replace so I will likely take your advice and see if I can locate a low mileage replacement. THe dealer cost of $125 for bracket and mount is not that bad actually. I just hate to replace a mount that isn't shot.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I'm not sure how I mis-read your post so badly but for some reason I thought you said that you replaced the passenger side mount, not the firewall mount. Still, replacing the front mount might help though you are right at 65k miles it was probably just fine, and if the clutch has been doing that since that time then the mounts are probably not the culprit.

dibquib

Not to worry. I appreciate you trying to help.

One interesting development after I had the clutch replaced...the car now vibrates between 800 to 1,000 RPM when idling. It's not horrible but I notice it and it didn't do that before. The mechanic removed the support beam and engine mounts when replacing the clutch. Maybe this exposed a flaw in the mounts? I cleaned the TB and IAC as well as replacing the MAF recently. Also replaced the plugs and FPR. She runs very smooth except for the small idle problem and clutch chatter...

zoner

Anyone happen to know what the offset / step on the OE flywheel is? The best way to tell if the flywheel was machined/turned improperly is to measure it against spec. The I've looked through my FSM and haven't found this information.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

I've been having the exact same problem. Down to every last detail. I have not however changed any motor mounts. I rebuilt the trans this winter and for the life of me cannot remember if it did it before I did all the work. I did have the flywheel resurfaced and put in an ACT clutch. However, I had to do the RMS again after 1000 miles due to improper application of RTV and noticed on the flywheel that I could see ever so slightly where one side has wear from the clutch and 180* around is no wear on the flywheel (Also note I put the stock clutch back in it the second time around to do away with the extremely harsh and chattery engagement of the ACT). So, this leads me to believe 1) the flywheel was not squarely resurfaced; 2) I've had a bad flywheel from the start and cant remember; 3) something in the clutch is off balance; or 4) [VERY VERY unlikely] but the crank is damaged. I have been thinking over and over about this because everytime I get in the 750-1000 RPM range it shudders. So I'm guessing the easiest thing to do would be to get a new flywheel and go from there. I just don't want to tear it down for a third time this year.

zoner

Okay, a couple of updates - I couldn't remember, but Dave B has confirmed that the 99 (and maybe earlier?) -01 flywheel has no step in it. He was good enough to go out to the warehouse and actually check the part for me - that's service!
With that in mind, it should be pretty hard to mess a flywheel up by resurfacing. There was a little bit of oil residue on the flywheel itself from the leaking RMS (which I fixed a long time ago), but the disk itself looked dry, and in decent shape. I did have some strange looking marks on the flywheel I'd say it's from oil, but they don't come out with brake cleaner and a rag - I'll try to post pics later. I'm kinda wondering if my 5 year old torque wrench might have been the culprit - maybe I didn't have the PP torqued down properly to spec. Anyway, I've decided to go ahead and get a Fidenza flywheel for the heck of it. I should hopefully have the whole mess back together before the weekend.

NissanMaxima91 - I'm sure you used a torque wrench on the PP bolts, but if one side of the PP was torqued down more than another, I imagine that could give you uneven wear on the flywheel too.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

Correct. But I went over the bolts three times to make sure. You know how when you initially do it, you get back to where you started and they arent tight enough? That was why I did it multiple times…

zoner

NissanMaxima91, sounds like you did it very right. How did the pressure plate surface look? It would be pretty interesting to see how it has worn.
Finally, here's the pic of my flywheel - I thought the spiral marks radiating from the center looked strange to me, but it might look normal to you guys (I've only changed 4 clutches before this one). The whole flywheel looks like this. I would include more pics, but I kept on getting errors trying to upload them.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

zoner, those marks are from the cutting head used to machine the flywheel. Looks normal to me.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

Yup, just the machining marks. No worries.

zoner: I'll have to check the PP. Dont exactly remember…

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

i had a problem with a flywheel not being balanced.. i went to vatozone and got myself a replacement and problems gone.. i had vibrations past like 3k rpms...

zoner

Thanks guys. That's good to know about the flywheel, though it's not on the car any more.

I got the fidanza flywheel in Wens, and had put it together just before we headed out of town. Took it for a short drive and clutch chatter is gone for now. Can't say that I noticed a lot of difference betweent the lightweight flywheel and the standard one. It does rev up faster in neutral, and I think it might rev a little faster in 1st. Didn't notice too much of a difference after that. Maybe I will after the ECU has had a bit more run time.

Two small points I wanted to mention about the flywheel install that I haven't seen in other writeups -
1) Hopefully this point might save someone an extra trip to the parts store for those that replace the flywheel but keep the OEM ring gear / crankshaft position sensor signal plate.
My 5th gen stock ring gear, flywheel, and crank sensor signal wheel were secured with bolts that use an E16 'star' socket head (I've also heard of this type of head referred to as a an 'inverted torx'). It's the first time I've seen these used on my Maxima. Don't know if the 4rth gen uses the same kind of fasteners, but I wouldn't be suprised. Provided you have the right socket, reusing any of the above parts is a piece of cake - they all just bolt together.

2) As stated in the installation instructions, the fidanza flywheel utilized an 'interference fit' between the crankshaft hub and flywheel. It seemed to go on okay, but I imagine taking it back off (if required) could involve a bit more work and probably some heat. Just another item that I haven't seen in other posts. I imagine the Sachs is a slip on fit, just like the OEM unit.

zoner

The flywheel that you had problems with - was it an aftermarket unit? Just wondering... My factory flywheel looked like it was checked for balance and adjusted.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Are you saying that the flywheel bolted to the crank with external torx bolts?

The timing ring should've just been 12mm head bolts, and the ring gear should be an integrated piece of the flywheel, not removable.

I've never seen an E-torx bolt on any (recent, anyway) Nissan, short of the tiny heads on the top of studs (E4, IIRC) and the stock main cap bolts (E14).

Didn't happen to take any pics, did you?

Personally I'd hit it with some sandpaper to loosen it up where it meets the flywheel, just enough so it's not a PITA when it comes time to remove it.

zoner

Phmor - Wish I did take some pics, but I was in a big hurry to get the car back together before heading out of town.

The flywheel bolted to the crank with standard metric head bolts, same as everyones. I belive they were 12mm.

For my OEM flywheel, the timing gear, ring gear, and flywheel were bolted together using the E16 'inverted torx' bolts. The bolts went through in that order, bolting up to the back of the flywheel. The ring gear was on it's own mounting plate. Kind of nice for Nissan to do that. I'll take some pics of the stock ring gear and flywheel when I get back home and post them.

For the Fidanza unit, yes, the ring gear was welded onto the flywheel itself.

For other pics, Black_maxed 95 did a great write up of a clutch / flywheel install. It can be found here:

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...intensive.html

If you look halfway down the first page - step 17, there is a picture showing the stock unit with his lightened Stillen flywheel. If you take a close look, you can just make out the E16 fasterners I was referring to in the upper left corner of his picture. Wish I'd noticed that before...

I can't say all 4rth gens use the same fasteners, just thought I'd mention it since the flywheel p/n is apparently the same, and it was a major PITA for me to run all over town looking for an E16 socket. I hope most 4rth gens do use 12mm bolts - that would make life easier.

Good point about the sandpaper. That might be a good way to avoid problems in the future. I was in a bit of a hurry, and the fidanza instructions gave me the impression that the flywheel was supposed to be an interference fit, so I just threw it on as is. I just hope I never have to remove it.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

That's...interesting.

I think every single Nissan flywheel I've ever seen, the ring gear is an integral piece. Never seen one to be removable, certainly never seen any external torx anywhere like that.

Funny thing is there's only one hit on the entire site for external torx bolts related to the flywheel, and it as well is for an A33. Weird, must've been a production date change or something (even though 97+ all show the same part number).

There wouldn't happen to be a part number stamped on your old flywheel?

I can't help but think that it wasn't an OEM piece, might've been replaced by the PO at some point (by a shop during a clutch change, most likely).

zoner

Well, back from vacation!

Here's pics of the stock flywheel and ring gear



Here they are apart... Back of flywheel, front of ring gear assembly..



There weren't any numbers stamped on either part from what I could tell. Production change - maybe. I've had the car since new, and I'm the only one who's replaced the clutch or taken the tranny off, so this is the OEM part.
Sorry if this isn't relevant to the 4rth gen forum. At least you guys see what a 5th gen (prod date 2/01) flywheel assembly looks like.

How in the world we could have the same flywheel P/N is beyond me if the ring gear is welded onto the 4rth gen flywheel.

tbergma1

Once you get oil on the clutch disc, throw it away. I replaced my flywheel and clutch at the same time and my chatter was gone.

dibquib

UPDATE - I landed an OEM replacement flywheel that had been recently resurfaced. I have not yet had time to install it but did some additional "testing" and wanted some feedback before I tear the tranny apart.

WIth the e-brake on full and slipping the clutch wile revving up the engine, there is virtually no vibration. With the brake off and doing the same thing, the car shakes starting out. I do not feel vibration through the clutch pedal.

I had my wife try to start out with the brake on and watched the engine. As the revs increase, the engine "rocks" about 1" or so towards the firewall.

I recently replaced the firewall mount but not the front (radiator side)one.

So...

Is this excessive engine movement?
Would this likely be the problem with shudder starting out and in reverse?

It is hard to inspect the mount but the upper rubber that I can reach (radiator side mount)can be pressed in somewhat by a finger. Is this normal? 287,00kms on the mount.
It is cheaper to replace that mount than to tear out the tranny.

THoughts and opinions welcome.