2brosgixxer

Ok guys, I will try to explain this as well as I can.

*Car takes a long time for temp gauge to get to normal temp and will not get to normal temp while just idling to warm it up. Even if I let it sit for 30-45 minutes, it will only get HALF WAY to normal operating temp according to the gauge.

*Car has never overheated--I drove it the other day in low 60 degree weather for 20 minutes and it did not overheat, temp gauge stayed where it should

*After 20-25 minutes of driving, with temp gauge at normal, I shut the car off and Upper Radiator hose was hot, but lower was cold (not warm at all)

So, I know that a thermostat stuck closed will cause the lower radiator hose to be cold, BUT the car will also overheat (which mine does not). A thermostat stuck open, will cause the car to take a long time to warm up. So, I have symptoms of the t-stat being stuck open AND closed? Where should I start? No CEL.

cashoit

from what u describe, I think u have a partly clogged radiator. Meaning hot coolant goes in and stays in there so long because its only TRICKLING out.

When was the last time the coolant was changed? This is why u replace the fluid cuz it can build up with gunk from an aging radiator.

Troubleshoot the radiator by draining the system. Flush radiator with water. It should be free flowing.

I dont think the tstat is the problem, but its a possibility.

2brosgixxer

Yeah, that was my second guess. Flush with garden Hose? Will that have enough pressure to remove the clog? I have owned the car for 6 months and I have not changed coolant so I'm guessing it has been a while since it has been done. Wanna throw me a quick step by step on the flush?

cashoit

How to drain coolant:

U will need a oil pail, screwdriver, new coolant, water.

Make sure the car isnt super hot (dont wanna burn yourself )

Jack the car on stands.

Open/remove radiator cap.

SLOWLY. remove lower radiator hose at the radiator nipple by unscrewing the hose clamp. Coolant will begin to flow out, catch it in the oil pan.

When no more comes out, completely remove the lower hose from the radiator.

Remove upper hose.

At this point the entire system should be drained. (this is good time to repalce the eninge coolant temperture sensor, $25 from autozone)

Pour water into the radiator cap. Water show flow out at a good speed. If not, try to flush with pressure hose. If flushing doesnt produce desired results, replace radiator.


_______________________________
EDIT: How to replace radiator:

disconnect electrical connectors for radiator fan. Unclip any hoses or wires attached to radiator.

Unscrew radiator fan screws where the fan mounts to the radiator. Pull the fan up and out.

Unscrew radiator mounts. Pull the radiator up and out.

Installation is the reverse of removal.
__________________________________________________ ___

How to replace coolant:

When u done troubleshooting, reinstall both upper and lower hoses.

Fill the radiator with 50/50 mix of coolant and water all the way to the top.

Add coolant to the coolant reservior to the full mark.

Replace radiator cap.

Start the car. Put heat on full blast. Coolant will begin to circulate through the engine.

Observe reservoir, add coolant as needed. FSM says 9 qts of coolant. U can open the radiator cap and add coolant there too if the reservoir is taking too long

2brosgixxer

That's great, thanks a lot. I will probably give this a try tomorrow. I think I'll do a new t-stat anyway since the coolant will be out and it will be easy to replace. So I just want to pour a couple gallons of water thru the system with the lower hose off until its clear? I don't put the hose back on, fill with water, run car, drain, repeat until clear, correct? Thanks again for your help.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Why not drain coolant with the drain plug? Is it already stripped?

2brosgixxer

I doubt if its stripped, but if I have a clog, it will probably come out easier thru the hose I think. Probably be a lot faster too.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

ahhh si si. Im getting a new rad too because mine cracked on top. Gotta get it ready for this summer heat

2brosgixxer

So here's an update. I drained the coolant via the lower rad hose and ran water thru the rad. It drained very quickly and does not seem to be blocked. I pulled the t stat out and tested it in boiling water and it opened. So I refilled the system and have let it run for 30 mins at idle blipping the throttle every once in a while to get the air out. So my question is, I am standing here with the car running, the cap off the radiator and the car temp gauge up to temp but I am not seeing the coolant flow thru the radiator...is this normal? Both the upper and lower radiator hoses are hot now bit still no coolant flow and no overheating.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

If its not overheating then your cooling system is working properly. Put it under load, drive for 10mins, and make sure it doesn't overheat. Recheck the fluid levels and you should be good to go for the summer!

2brosgixxer

Just took it for a 10 mile drive at 60-65 mph with the heater on cold and no overheating. Guess I'll have to see if it will warm up fully at idle without blipping the throttle when it cools down again. Looks like I am good to go, minus the ac not working. so there's my next headache

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

AC no work? check the carpet for dampness, compressor could of gone bad

2brosgixxer

No dampness and I can hear the compressor kick on. My bet is on a leak somewhere so I'll have to take it somewhere to test for that.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

could just need a recharge. you can do it yourself

2brosgixxer

Last time i tried that on another vehicle, I didn't have any luck. I have a buddy of mine that does it for a living so I'll at least have him diagnose it at work with the right equipment then go from there.

cashoit

Good work man.

But why did u put the heater on cold??? If u did have any issue, leaving it on HOT would have helped the car from overheating if there was an issue.


Yea man radiator and tstat is easy on our cars. If u dont overheat then u good bro.

2brosgixxer

I put it on cold during the test drive to try to "force" it to overheat just as part of my diagnostic phase. It did not overheat.

The test will be when I let it idle to warm it up. If it does not warm up all the way to temp just sitting, whats my next step...radiator...power flush? The heat seems to be blowing significantly better now though so I am hopeful.

The coolant I took out still looked good and green and I did not see any big chunks come out of the radiator.

I was not impressed with the thermostat location being right above the alternator. I leaked some coolant on the alternator and the nut on the bottom of the t-stat was a bit tough to get to.

Thanks for your help!!

cashoit

Lol, i forgot about that nut. Yea itsa PITA!!! lol.

O i guess i shd have mentioned this too: My car, while driving, doesnt get to the normal operating temp. It stays below it. If i have the car idling, then it will reach normal operating temp. When i drive and cool air passes over the radiator, the needle moves below normal op temp.

So i dont think u have an issue man. U good now.

Regarding the AC...check AC pressure. Prolly jus need a charge.

2brosgixxer

Mine is the exact opposite. Like this morning, I let it run for 5 minutes, drove a mile and the temp gauge was 1/2 way to normal temp. Then I stopped and let it sit for 10-15 minutes, came back out, and the temp was in the same place. Drove a couple more miles and the gauge went to where it should be. A few weeks ago, it was ***** cold here, so I let it run for 45 minutes after work...just idling...went out expecting a nice warm car, but to my surprise, the gauge had only gone 1/2 way to normal operating temp then still took another 10 minutes of driving to get it to normal temp.

2brosgixxer

UPDATE:
Ok, I am still not satisfied that nothing is wrong with my cooling system. Just a quick synopsis...
The car will get to normal operating temp and DOES NOT OVERHEAT (its been fairly warm so about 10 minutes of driving)

Have not checked since my drain and fill, but car would not get to full temp just sitting at idle (not sure if that is normal for the Max)

Once warm, I DO get heat thru the vents inside the car although its not super hot but I expect that from a 97

Today, I drove 15 minutes...about 10 miles, stopped at a gas station WHILE CAR WAS UP TO NORMAL TEMP and checked the Oil and while i was under there, I put my hand on the radiator cap...ICE COLD...felt the lower radiator hose...ICE COLD, squeezed it and it was firm. Upper radiator hose was hot and firm. Seems to me that fluid is flowing properly thru the system and i checked the t-stat in boiling water and it is opening and closing properly.

Can anyone confirm if any of this sounds like a problem I should worry about or if there is something I should be doing?? It just does not seem right that the rad cap and LRH are both cold when the car temp gauge is showing normal operating temp.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

i'm now confused.

the gauge DOES show normal operating temp (halfway btwn C and H, yes)? reading the earlier posts, it did not. Which made me think the coolant temp sensor was intermittent or out of spec.

T-stat seems to be operating...you get heat out of the vents, so that's good. you smell no coolant in cabin so heater core is not obviously bad...any idiot lights on? leaks anywhere?

2brosgixxer

See red in quote for answers to questions

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

love that pic it's perfect, since I'm more of a visual learner.

I noticed that with my car, it will not seem to "get up to normal temp" until she moves as well...BUT that being said, I've never kept her idling for a long time to watch the gauge either.

Reading back several posts, it seems as if you are concerned with the cold temp of the lower rad. hose when the gauge shows normal, yes? Otherwise your car seems to be fine. When you say that you get heat, but it doesn't blow hot...elaborate on that one? When set to full hot, you should be able to get some good amount of heat. My 99 gets nice and toasty. Does your AC work properly as well?

I am thinking it's normal, and here's why: My 97 Grand Am had a tendency to have the temp needle to 3/4 of the way up on the gauge...until the fans kicked on. It would only go up that high at idle, or at a drive thru or traffic. fans would kick in and it'd go down a bit, but still too high for my comfort. Drive upwards of 20MPH and it'd go back down to normal...halfway up the gauge. Just a function of how those 2.4l engines worked.

I'm newer to he max than you are but from your description I really don't see any issues. but that's just me

2brosgixxer

Guess basically I am just trying to confirm that what my car is doing is "normal" and the same as other peoples 4th gens. I'd just hate to overlook this totally only to have a major issue down the road.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

oh I completely understand that.

If the system is working properly, I doubt you'll see the temp gauge go above halfway. The wife's Outback has NEVER gotten over halfway up the temp gauge, and she frequently drives hour at a time...sometimes more.

2brosgixxer

Well, Unless someone can confirm that something is screwy, I guess I'll just leave it alone for now...I plan on getting the AC fixed with tax returns so maybe that'll take care of some of it...doubtful but we'll see.

Phromethius

Could this be an issue: really rich coolant mixture? like 70/30 coolant/water. It kinda sounds like your coolant is OVERreacting. Not sure if this is even possible. But just throwing it out there. Would like Pure coolant, non-deluted, cause these temps?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

2brosgixxer

It's mixed 50/50 for sure. I was very careful when I did it. It's weird though, cause last night the hoses were hot. I'm gonna say good enough until it overheats I guess. Lol. I'm done with this for now.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Here's where my gauge showed after starting up and idling for 12 minutes this afternoon...60* weather, engine not run for 3 hours:



Not sure if that helps any, but my car DOES get up to normal operating temp according to the gauge just by idling

2brosgixxer

Hey man thanks for doing that . Yeah, mine dis too today and has since Its been warm. We'll have to see what it does when it gets cold again next year. I'm now afraid that my ac compressor may be shot. Not really sure how to check it though. Any thoughts on that?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Is your thermostat old?

Replace it.


DW

2brosgixxer

Stat works, I tested it when I drained the coolant.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Your symptoms suggest that it's tired. If it's old. Replace it.
It's been said, I cant confirm, that when a tstats goes bad, it fails open.
It's better to be too cold than hot obviously, and thats what your car is doing.

While your at it, I would replace the temp sensor for the ECU, I keep forgetting it's name. The one that kick's in the fans, not the temp gage one.

DW

2brosgixxer

Damn it, I meant to change that temp sensor when the system was empty. As for the stat, when I pulled it from the car, it was closed, when I boiled it, it opened, when I took it out of the pot, it closed leading me to believe that it is good/working.