KP11520

So today was a heatwave (45 degrees) and a good day to attack installing new Moog "Problem Solver" LCA's, Moog Sway Bar End Links and ES Sway Bar Bushings.

I watched that video on YT where that 4th gen owner mechanic takes one out and installs a better used one. He did not remove the axle. Instead, he showed how to loosen the nut of the ball joint with an open ended wrench and whack the area with a hammer and it will drop. Then prying until the nut can be backed out and removed.

So the wrench rounded over the only sides with access on the ball joint. Oh well, I'll come back to it later. Let me get the rest out.

Removed the nut and bushings of the end link and all 6 bolts came out easily. The nut from the link bushing pin came off easily too! Everything is out and apart except the ball joint.

Back to the ball joint nut. NOTHING was working. Time to sawzall the Beotch off. That was a royal PITA. Finally cut it off and removed the last of the obstruction.

Now I'm wailing on the Salad fork (Ball Joint Fork) with a heavy Ball Peen hammer and nothing. It's laughing at me!

Any ideas? If I heat the metal around the bolt, will it transfer to the axle and make a mess of the bearings and grease?

If this is how the other side goes, how do I make it look like an accident that I torched the car? LOL I HATE working this close to the ground for so long! I guess a nut buster would be faster than a sawzall, but I don't think it will fit with the axle in!

Thanks in advance!

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

if you can get access to air tools, honestly the ball joint fork with an air hammer is 500x easier than using a regular hammer

other thing you can try is hang a chain around the control arm and put a long pipe or pry bar through the chain and put the tip of the bar against the subframe and have someone put pressure downwards on the chain pulling the control arm down while you hammer it

KP11520

OUCH! I think these are the original ball joints. I don't remember ever doing them. 186K. That probably doesn't help either!

No air tools! Damn!

I guess a torch isn't a good idea either!

Thank you!

jholley

iTrader: (13)

Had a similar problem with my left LCA. After noticing the open wrench was rounding that heavily rusted nut I slid the outer shaft out of the knuckle. Using a deep socket and breaker bar got the nut off but the fork wouldn't separate that ball joint from the subframe. Using a 5 foot crow bar my friend Joe and I broke it off in 2 pieces.

Members living in warm climates tend to believe the LCA will last the life of the vehicle.

CS_AR

Faced with that situation I would remove the knuckle and LCA then put it in a vice or take it to someone who has a vice to separate ball joint from the knuckle. Basically get the part away from the car to apply enough force on a solid surface to break it loose.

KP11520

Thanks to all!

CS,

What sized socket for the Axle nut? Something like 36mm? I'm thinking like 200 foot pounds torquing it back on? What a PITA! At least none of the bolts broke in the K Frame like that other poor guy! And the Link-Pin Bush came right out of the old LCA.

I top sided some "Moovit" around the ball joint bolt and hopefully gravity will feed it down the sides by morning.

From now on.... No more fancy expensive tools until AFTER I get a high garage with a real lift.

Why do we love these cars again? Someone please remind me! Oh that's right. I can't afford a new one! Damn! I hate when that happens!

CS_AR

Axle nut 36mm I think the torque spec is 174-231 ft/lbs. I borrow (deposit based) axle nut socket set (4 sockets) from Advance Auto for when I remove axles. I have a 36" breaker bar from Harbor Freight that I use with a piece of black pipe as a cheater bar to break loose axle nuts.

KP11520

Thanks!

I'll buy a 36mm impact socket at Harbor Freight tomorrow and a box of 9 mil gloves. I thrash the ones I have too fast these days!

Hopefully, my electric Impact Gun will break them free. It's one of those Kobalt ones that Lowe's sells. Supposedly 350 foot pounds of torque.

So far, everything I've done with it was without breaking a sweat. I'm the only one sweating the details. LOL

If I pulled the knuckle out away from the axle and used a 6 point impact socket with that gun from above on that Ball Joint nut, the hammering would have removed the nut AND most likely loosened up the ball joint stud to come out easy.

Cutting corners the HARD way.

And in the process of using my sawzall (Lennox Gold 24 tpi blades with Moovit - HIGHLY recommended blades for hardened metal with lubricant), not only did I cut the nut and stud off, I inadvertently cut part of the knuckle. If it went too deep, time for a used one. I cut by where the stop hooks around. OUCH! I'll see when it's light out!

I cursed a lot too!

Wish me luck and a BIG thanks to everybody!

KP11520

Sure enough, today I whack the side of the joint a few times with a hammer, apply said salad fork and minimal coercing and it drops to the ground!

Moovit. GREAT stuff.

Question for those that have done these... Am I supposed to lubricate the new big bushing that gets pushed into a cavity or force it in dry? The short bolt on that plate that holds it in place DOES NOT want to be the muscle guy! That bolt came out real easy. Huge fight after a few threads deep (with Moovit on it) going back in.

Thanks!

CS_AR

A little overnight soaking helped break it loose -- eh? Glad to see you removed it. Depending on the situation I use RuGlyde (from NAPA) which is a water based lubricant. If you bushing is silicone rubber then I would not use a silicone based lubricant like dielectric grease.

KP11520

I can only assume the Moovit helped. I went mental on it last night and nothing but despair. Maybe the extra whacks on the side of the joint helped as well

Today was a gift! The muscles in my forearms are sore from squeezing so hard on the tools and banging so hard with the hammer out in 32 degrees. Hands were locking up last night. Always a treat!

So a water based Lubricant is OK to help that new bushing squeeze up into that space! It's the bushing that comes on the Moog Problem Solver LCA Assemblies. Rubber based.

Maybe a little slippery love lube stuff (water based) will help the LCA get in the mood........ to Freakin Cooperate! LOL

And thankfully I didn't cut the knuckle with the sawzall. Only a score of silver in the rust crust!

Thank you as always!

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

The wacks on the side was really all you needed. That salad fork is a waste of time.
A little pressure pulling down, repeated wacks on the side and they drop.

KP11520

I have to agree with you for sure! Sad part is, it's counterintuitive. LOL

If I hadn't read about it and seen it, I'd never think to do it.

Wrestling with an old Maxima is so much more fun (NOT!) LOL

Thanks!

KP11520

So since I'm replacing the LCA Assemblies without removing the axle, like in this video, I will add these really important and pivotal tips to reduce the chance of being tortured. Been There, Done That!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTIePKbH3hY

1. Use a high quality Flare Nut Wrench to loosen the Ball Joint Nut and also to tighten the new one to the Torque guesstimate. An open end wrench will round over the nut and then you'll have to cut it off or remove the axle. I found different sizes on my 99 than he found in the video. No way to get a socket on it to use a torque wrench when tightening. Hence Guesstimate.

2. I can't reinforce how important it is to hit the knuckle joint that wraps around the ball joint with a hammer. A bunch of hard blows breaks the corrosive bond between the knuckle and ball joint stud. If it won't come out, WHACK it again!

3. Use a 27mm socket to loosen the nut on the Link-Pin Bush BEFORE removing it from the car. Perfect time to use your Impact Gun. Even a big gun will have enough clearance and make it much easier.

4. If you have an Impact Gun to remove the six nuts (22mm) that hold the LCA to the bottom of the car, Short Air guns are easier to work with. Electric guns seem to be longer and you'll have to raise the car up higher. If you can't get it high enough, hopefully, you can crack the bolts open with the gun and then tighten them enough to get the gun out of the way and finish the job with a ratchet.

5. The new bushing on the LCA towards the rear of the car that gets pressed into the cavity on the bottom of the car and covered with a plate with three bolts does NOT go in easily. Use some sort of water based lubricant on the entire area that will make contact with the car bottom cavity. If you can't find it at an auto parts store, the kind you can get at the drug store works just as well.

6. Try to get the nut started on the ball joint before it presses all the way in. Not connecting the Sway Bar End Links til after and leaving the six bolts loose will help with this finesse task.

If I knew all this on the front side, It probably would have been done both sides in 2 to 3 hours (including bring up everything from the basement to the driveway and back). With these tips, it really is nothing to be intimidated about.

I hope this helps someone, anyone, everyone! Good luck!

CS_AR

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! !

How does it drive?

KP11520

Horrible! (kidding) (and Thank You!)

I didn't put it through it's paces yet. Front end alignment tomorrow or Friday first!

The bushings on the old LCA's weren't bad at all. The ball joints were definitely weak. The End links and Sway Bar Bushings will probably be what I notice most. But new LCA with new bushings will feel real nice on highways, I'm sure.

I hope I don't get tempted to beat on her! LOL

I'll have a solid answer by the weekend.

99 Durango is giving me grief at the same time (like always). Cars are like women in the same house. They always seem get their period at the same time. LOL

KP11520

If any of you plan to do your LCA Bushings and Ball Joints or new LCA Assemblies without pulling your Axles, I found the nut on the ball joints was 13/16". I first used an open end wrench and rounded over the nut. I did NOT want to take out the axle as it is the original one with original bearings at 186K. I bet they would disintegrate after reassembling them.

So I cut it off and that was NOT fun.

After that I looked for a 13/16" Flare Nut Wrench and found they are rare. Then I found a Jonnesway (Decent Taiwan tools) on closeout at Fastenal. Selling for $4.53 on Closeout. Called the one near me and they ordered it in house (no shipping charges when sent to the store). Picked it up a couple days later and for less than $5 with Tax, had a much easier time on the other side of the car.

Grab one before they are no more (at that price): https://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0267403

KP11520

So, turning the wheel needs way less effort. But even better than that is how QUIET the car has gotten. Bumps and pot holes seem muffled and since everything is nice and tight, rather than approaching sloppy, I hear the one muffled thud and no reverberations.

Before, the one thud was loud and then a whole bunch more supplemental noises and rattles. Imagine a whole road of poorly filled pot holes. Rattled my teefusses.

Replacing The Strut assemblies was approaching 50% of the new ride and quiet, but the new LCA Assemblies, Sway Bar End Links with bushings and Sway Bar Bushings probably did more to tighten up and quiet the front end. Did I say it handles much closer to new now as well? NICE!

HIGHLY Recommended on High Mileage 4th Gens!

Now I'm motivated to do the rear links and bushings.

This quiet thing is overwhelmingly calming and nice. I think I'm gonna cry!