Riddle me this riddle me that, why won't Max attempt 2 start w/ a slightly low bat?
04-10-2015, 11:45 PM
#1
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Riddle me this riddle me that, why won't Max attempt 2 start w/ a slightly low bat?
I think I may have a unique situation here guys and would appreciate your input.
On one of my Maximas, if the battery voltage is below 11 volts, the car won't even attempt to start. I turn the key and absolutely nothing happens.
Now if I hook up a battery charger to the car and activate the 'car start' function, which obviously increase the battery voltage to 13-14 volts, the car will fire right up.
What is causing this?
On one of my Maximas, if the battery voltage is below 11 volts, the car won't even attempt to start. I turn the key and absolutely nothing happens.
Now if I hook up a battery charger to the car and activate the 'car start' function, which obviously increase the battery voltage to 13-14 volts, the car will fire right up.
What is causing this?
04-11-2015, 05:23 AM
#4
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Wiz, it's not the voltage, it's the amperage that's key. You could have 12 volts on a battery that simply cannot supply enough amps to crank. (Dead cell?)
Remember batteries are rated by CCA's. The perfectly fine 12 volt battery in my Yamaha will not start my Nissan.
Remember batteries are rated by CCA's. The perfectly fine 12 volt battery in my Yamaha will not start my Nissan.
04-11-2015, 06:26 AM
#5
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Do you need a special sized battery? How many CCAs are you looking to purchase?
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04-11-2015, 10:49 AM
#6
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Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you guys completely missed my issue. I really don't believe it's the battery. It's fairly new and has high CA's and CCA's (I'll report back on this). I bought a new battery because this same issue was happening with the old battery, and I thought it was an old battery issue.
It won't even ATTEMPT to start. Meaning, I don't even get the usual struggling "whu whu whu" sound as it normally would if the battery was low. If I take this same battery and throw it in one of my other Maximas, the car will start no problem. This particular Maxima is a picky little ****er.
Hopefully I explained things a little bit better.
njmaxseltd, I'll go out and see how many amps it's showing in its current state. Thank you.
It won't even ATTEMPT to start. Meaning, I don't even get the usual struggling "whu whu whu" sound as it normally would if the battery was low. If I take this same battery and throw it in one of my other Maximas, the car will start no problem. This particular Maxima is a picky little ****er.
Hopefully I explained things a little bit better.
njmaxseltd, I'll go out and see how many amps it's showing in its current state. Thank you.
04-11-2015, 10:56 AM
#7
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I'm sure your cables to the starter are clean. How old is the starter?
I remember seeing ancient Ford Mustangs do crazy stuff like that when the starter solenoid would be on the way out. If you gave them a jolt with more current than normal via a running car jump you could get a few more starts out of it before the went completely out. That was when the starter solenoid was under the hood by the battery.
It doesn't sound like classic starter switch failure but I've not personally experienced that issue.
I remember seeing ancient Ford Mustangs do crazy stuff like that when the starter solenoid would be on the way out. If you gave them a jolt with more current than normal via a running car jump you could get a few more starts out of it before the went completely out. That was when the starter solenoid was under the hood by the battery.
It doesn't sound like classic starter switch failure but I've not personally experienced that issue.
Last edited by CS_AR; 04-11-2015 at 11:07 AM.
04-11-2015, 02:39 PM
#11
This is interesting. In electricity, voltage and current (amperage) are 2 separate things. But you have to have them both. Voltage is the electrical pressure that pushes the current through the wire. The lower the voltage, the less current flows.
But in this car-not-starting situation, something else other than the starter or battery is the cause. Everybody pretty much agrees that even at 11 volts, the starter should crank the engine. So something else besides the starter or battery is involved.
My guess would be to try another starter inhibitor relay. Maybe the energizing coil is changing its resistance, increasing, and this could be why you need the higher voltage. This same comment could also apply to the starter solenoid. I personally have never seen a starter solenoid do this, but I have seen relays do this. Any old 3rd gen guy probably knows about the fuel injectors doing this.
The inhibitor relay is in front of the battery. The cover on my 97 has it labeled INHIBIT CLUTCH INTERLOCK. It is in the row closest to the radiator, 2nd from the radiator.
But in this car-not-starting situation, something else other than the starter or battery is the cause. Everybody pretty much agrees that even at 11 volts, the starter should crank the engine. So something else besides the starter or battery is involved.
My guess would be to try another starter inhibitor relay. Maybe the energizing coil is changing its resistance, increasing, and this could be why you need the higher voltage. This same comment could also apply to the starter solenoid. I personally have never seen a starter solenoid do this, but I have seen relays do this. Any old 3rd gen guy probably knows about the fuel injectors doing this.
The inhibitor relay is in front of the battery. The cover on my 97 has it labeled INHIBIT CLUTCH INTERLOCK. It is in the row closest to the radiator, 2nd from the radiator.
Last edited by DennisMik; 04-11-2015 at 02:42 PM.
04-11-2015, 02:44 PM
#12
sounds like the battery might have a dying cell in it. if you can, swap it out with a different battery and see how it acts. if no different, check the connections to the starter and battery for excessive resistance and maybe swap out the starter relay incase its sticking a bit
04-12-2015, 09:39 AM
#13
I think I may have a unique situation here guys and would appreciate your input.
On one of my Maximas, if the battery voltage is below 11 volts, the car won't even attempt to start. I turn the key and absolutely nothing happens.
Now if I hook up a battery charger to the car and activate the 'car start' function, which obviously increase the battery voltage to 13-14 volts, the car will fire right up.
What is causing this?
On one of my Maximas, if the battery voltage is below 11 volts, the car won't even attempt to start. I turn the key and absolutely nothing happens.
Now if I hook up a battery charger to the car and activate the 'car start' function, which obviously increase the battery voltage to 13-14 volts, the car will fire right up.
What is causing this?
04-13-2015, 11:37 AM
#15
I took out my starter, battery, ignition switch, etc. Even looked at the clutch relay etc. All you have to do is clean the ground. Remove cable from neg. battery post and clean with sand paper or something like a terminal cleaner. Then remove bolt from engine block holding other neg. wire end to bracket and clean. Problem sovled.
04-14-2015, 04:53 AM
#16
I took out my starter, battery, ignition switch, etc. Even looked at the clutch relay etc. All you have to do is clean the ground. Remove cable from neg. battery post and clean with sand paper or something like a terminal cleaner. Then remove bolt from engine block holding other neg. wire end to bracket and clean. Problem sovled.
04-17-2015, 11:26 PM
#17
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I'm sure your cables to the starter are clean. How old is the starter?
I remember seeing ancient Ford Mustangs do crazy stuff like that when the starter solenoid would be on the way out. If you gave them a jolt with more current than normal via a running car jump you could get a few more starts out of it before the went completely out. That was when the starter solenoid was under the hood by the battery.
It doesn't sound like classic starter switch failure but I've not personally experienced that issue.
I remember seeing ancient Ford Mustangs do crazy stuff like that when the starter solenoid would be on the way out. If you gave them a jolt with more current than normal via a running car jump you could get a few more starts out of it before the went completely out. That was when the starter solenoid was under the hood by the battery.
It doesn't sound like classic starter switch failure but I've not personally experienced that issue.
I have no idea the age of the starter, it came with the car. This particular Maxima is turbocharged, and heavily modified; I'm just now getting into it and figuring things out. This is my oldest Maxima, being a 95.
Thanks Craig.
Last edited by The Wizard; 04-17-2015 at 11:47 PM.
04-17-2015, 11:32 PM
#18
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Thanks.
This is interesting. In electricity, voltage and current (amperage) are 2 separate things. But you have to have them both. Voltage is the electrical pressure that pushes the current through the wire. The lower the voltage, the less current flows.
But in this car-not-starting situation, something else other than the starter or battery is the cause. Everybody pretty much agrees that even at 11 volts, the starter should crank the engine. So something else besides the starter or battery is involved.
But in this car-not-starting situation, something else other than the starter or battery is the cause. Everybody pretty much agrees that even at 11 volts, the starter should crank the engine. So something else besides the starter or battery is involved.
My guess would be to try another starter inhibitor relay. Maybe the energizing coil is changing its resistance, increasing, and this could be why you need the higher voltage. This same comment could also apply to the starter solenoid. I personally have never seen a starter solenoid do this, but I have seen relays do this. Any old 3rd gen guy probably knows about the fuel injectors doing this.
The inhibitor relay is in front of the battery. The cover on my 97 has it labeled INHIBIT CLUTCH INTERLOCK. It is in the row closest to the radiator, 2nd from the radiator.
The inhibitor relay is in front of the battery. The cover on my 97 has it labeled INHIBIT CLUTCH INTERLOCK. It is in the row closest to the radiator, 2nd from the radiator.
Last edited by The Wizard; 04-17-2015 at 11:47 PM.
04-17-2015, 11:40 PM
#19
That one's a waste IMO. There are many other ground points grounding the chassis. That extra big cable is providing lower resistance where it isn't needed. I would remove it. Does the vehicle have some sort of high powered stereo in it?
04-17-2015, 11:43 PM
#20
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sounds like the battery might have a dying cell in it. if you can, swap it out with a different battery and see how it acts. if no different, check the connections to the starter and battery for excessive resistance and maybe swap out the starter relay incase its sticking a bit
Thanks Cmax
I took out my starter, battery, ignition switch, etc. Even looked at the clutch relay etc. All you have to do is clean the ground. Remove cable from neg. battery post and clean with sand paper or something like a terminal cleaner. Then remove bolt from engine block holding other neg. wire end to bracket and clean. Problem solved.
Last edited by The Wizard; 04-17-2015 at 11:48 PM.
04-18-2015, 03:33 PM
#24
You can believe the moon is made of cheese too, but that does not make it so. The fact is that a 12V volt battery is a dead battery at 12.1V. Now if your starter is shot with a shorted winding, then that 11v battery will definitely not work, while it may work in another Max.
12.5 = 85% charged
12.4 = 65%
12.3 = 50%
12.2 = 35%
12.1 = drained
http://www.autobatteries.com/en-us/b...battery-works/
http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_runs_down.htm
Have you applied 12 volts directly to the starter solenoid lead? Have you tested the starter circuit with a test light?
12.5 = 85% charged
12.4 = 65%
12.3 = 50%
12.2 = 35%
12.1 = drained
http://www.autobatteries.com/en-us/b...battery-works/
http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_runs_down.htm
Have you applied 12 volts directly to the starter solenoid lead? Have you tested the starter circuit with a test light?
Last edited by asand1; 04-18-2015 at 05:07 PM.
04-18-2015, 05:48 PM
#26
Not if the starter is shot, and responsible for killing the battery in the first place. I would jump it and drive it to someone that can so a starter draw test. My guess is that the starter is toast, and the battery is shot because of it. Doing voltage drop tests while jumping would also tell us if the cables are OK.
04-18-2015, 09:24 PM
#27
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I've started my Max and other cars during the winter with pre-crank voltages in the 10s. 10.7 is about the bottom limit for successful winter starting. Not to say that 11 volts is doing great, but it should produce some sort of noise, the very least being a relay click. If you can take the battery out and start another car with it, the battery is not the issue.
04-19-2015, 11:06 AM
#28
I don't think the issue here is the battery even if voltage were to drop to 12 volts or less as long as it has enough current to turn over the starter it should start. Current is what the main 'driving' force is behind starters or any electric motor for that fact, not voltage. Voltage may simply indicate the health of the battery and without actually testing it, it may indicate nothing at all lol.
I've tested enough batteries working at an auto parts store to know voltage doesn't always indicate the health of the battery...
Here is a quote from Wikipidia "When current from the starting battery is applied to the solenoid, usually through a key-operated switch, the solenoid engages a lever that pushes out the drive pinion on the starter driveshaft and meshes the pinion with the starter ring gear on the flywheel of the engine. "
Key word here is current...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_(engine)
I believe this to be a wiring issue as you do have random wires going into places it should not be going to. I would start there, removing unnecessary wires and getting back close to stock as possible.
I've tested enough batteries working at an auto parts store to know voltage doesn't always indicate the health of the battery...
Here is a quote from Wikipidia "When current from the starting battery is applied to the solenoid, usually through a key-operated switch, the solenoid engages a lever that pushes out the drive pinion on the starter driveshaft and meshes the pinion with the starter ring gear on the flywheel of the engine. "
Key word here is current...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_(engine)
I believe this to be a wiring issue as you do have random wires going into places it should not be going to. I would start there, removing unnecessary wires and getting back close to stock as possible.
Last edited by deloa84; 04-20-2015 at 07:33 AM.
04-20-2015, 12:44 AM
#29
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