Former3G

UPDATE 4/12
https://maxima.org/forums/4th-genera...ml#post9144904

I purchased a 1996 Maxima GXE 5 speed a couple of months back as a second car. I purchased it knowing that I would need to tinker around a bit.

It had a starting issue when I purchased it. The car would start after pressing the accelerator a bit after about 5 to 10 seconds. I would have to give it gas for a couple of seconds, then it runs great and idles normally. Once it warmed up, it starts normally with little to no hesitation until it sits for about 10 to 15 minutes, then I need to do the same with the accelerator pedal.... Now it will not start at all. It just cranks and pops/backfires. The car ran fine until recently when it started getting rainy and cold.

When it did start, no smoke, no hesitation, etc.. Gas mileage is decent. I only put around 500 miles on it. It is running a bit rich as I do smell fuel at times, but that can be due to the exhaust. I cleaned out the throttle body yesterday (it was dirty) and no luck.

In terms of performance mods, it has headers and a full catless exhaust. I am in the process of trying to swap that out with stock.

The only CEL's are P0400 (EGR) and P0136 (rear 02 sensor). I figure that both are due to the exhaust.

The prior owner was chasing the startimg issue and replaced the cam sensor, both crankshaft position sensors, plugs, ignition coils, alternator, starter and idler pulley. I am trying to narrow some things out assuming those parts are working properly. Based on my research I am seeing the following possibilities:

Higher Possibilities:

• Fuel Pressure regulator and/or damper? - I will try to look into this as it looks to be a possible culprit. I believe that I read somewhere to check for fuel in the vacuum hose. I found a decent write up on this and this may be what I am seeing but it was for a 5th gen. I am not sure if the setup is the same. Does the 4th gen have a fuel pressure damper?
• Fuel Filter? - Will tackle this weekend. I already have the filter. Prior owner gave it to me.
• Bad Ground? - This may be a possibility but the fact that the car started when accelerator was pressed rules this out as the main culprit?
• Clogged EGR? - But this should't cause start up issues, right? Keep in mind that I do have an EGR CEL, but the car is Catless (for now) and runs fine once started.

Maybe or Maybe not:

• Idle Air Control Valve? - Idle is fine when running, so can't necessarily be this, right?
• Injectors? - I would expect this to affect the performance but not seeing any issues. I don't notice any excess fuel coming from the exhaust. No misfires, etc...
• Fuel Pump? - No noticeable power loss and no excess whining. Just a slight whine when I remove back seat. Sounds normal. Priming the pump before start doesn't help.
• Mass Air Flow Sensor? - This could be a possibility, but the car runs fine once started. Idles fine.
• Throttle Position Sensor? - Again, idle is fine, once started.

Any assistance in terms of narrowing this down will be appreciated! I am new at this stuff but want to learn.

maxima297

I wouldn't recommend pressing on the accelerator while starting. Reason being is that method is generally used on vehicles with a carburetor, and we have fuel injected vehicles. The fact that you have better luck starting by pressing the gas, says that you are having issues getting enough fuel into the chamber in order to spark. I would check and replace the fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator and even make sure the injectors aren't clogged, as any one of those can prevent proper fuel amount from coming through. I would even go so far as to replace any fuel lines and clamps that look grungy. It's also a good idea just to make sure all your grounds are nicely cleaned up, just as a precaution.

JvG

Might be a fuel pressure issue.

I would do a fuel pressure test.

Our injectors like to leak. That can cause issues like this.

The rubber hose to the pressure regulator is not supposed to have fuel in it. If it does, it need to be replaced.

maxima297

I'm thinking he doesn't have a leaking injector issue, IF it's an injector. He is showing signs of not getting enough fuel, which would indicate a clogged injector. But again, that's only if the fuel filter and pressure regulator check out ok or are replaced and the problem persists.

Former3G

I will check the FPR when I change out the filter. If I see any obvious signs, I will change it out. Do these cars have a fuel pressure damper that I should be changing out as well? I read somewhere that the 5th gens do, but not the 4th gens?

I assume that I can check the front injectors rather easily. I just need to find out what to look for.

Hopefully the fuel lines are in good shape. If this does not work, I will have to bring the car to a shop to do a pressure test, which I am hoping to avoid

Former3G

This is in line with what I was thinking as well. Maybe I will just buy the FPR and replace it instead of just checking it. Sounds like they go bad eventually anyway.

JvG

I would remove the spark plugs. Any wet ones would be a sign of leakage.

Other members will reply soon. They might have good advice.

maxima297

I've never heard of one on the 4th gens, just the FPR (fuel pressure regulator).

Yes, the front three injectors are easy to check. I suggest vice grips to crack those silly screws and replace them with m5 X .80 bolts, about 20mm long.

Former3G

Thanks! I will check them out.

Thank you! I looked online to see if I can find a fuel damper for the 4th gen and cannot seem to find one so I guess that answers my question. I found the Beck Arnley 158-0333 Fuel Injection Pressure Regulator, so I assume that is the part that I need.

maxima297

I would actually recommend buying a box of those bolts. You'll need 2 for each injector and 2 for the fpr anyways, and if you ever do the throttle sensor, you'll need a few for that as well.

Hoses, clamps, bolts, are all cheap items you should keep around just in case. These cars are 20 years old, so many things won't come off easily. Expect to replace extra small items as you go along.

A bad fuel injector is easy to spot. For one, the little spray holes on the bottom will be dirty. Also look for missing pintle caps around the holes. There's a little trick to pulling the injectors out as well. As far as the back 3, those are a little harder to access. It's more time consuming than actually difficult. But I would start with the fuel filter and fpr before addressing the injectors.

maxima297

I didn't have the funds to get a pressure test done, and while I could have done it myself, I preferred to just go through and replace parts simply because I knew they would all soon need replacing. I had the opposite problem than you; my injectors were stuck open, spraying gas everywhere. Too much fuel prevents spark from happening when it should, causes a nasty gassy odor from the exhaust as it leaks out, really poor mileage and leads to clogged cats.

Former3G

I definitely want to resolve this before I put a catted exhaust back in

Can someone confirm for me that this is the regulator that I need to order? Amazon says that it fits. I just want to be sure that it is good quality.

http://www.fuelpressureregulator.net...sure-regulator.

The bolts that are on the existing one look like they are going to strip. Hopefully I can get them off with the limited tools that I have. I don't want to use a dremel around the fuel lines if they strip out.

maxima297

That is the correct one.

Yes, the bolts suck. I used a small vice grip. I had to drill one of them out. This is where you will need 2 replacement m8x1.25 bolts, about 20mm long.

Former3G

Thank you. Now hopefully I get a chance to do it this weekend. The car is sitting in a public parking space and not in my driveway

JvG

I noticed that the screws have a smaller diameter
tip on the end without threads.

I think that the screws will loosten easily is you grab thst tip with a small vice grip, then twist the screw.

Much less likely to strip the screw that way.

Former3G

UPDATE

So today I tried to replace the fuel pressure regulator. I used liquid wrench and the screws came right out! But... I was not able to get the clip off of the one flange for the larger hose and one the tabs broke There was no gas at all when I took the one smaller hose off that goes to the intake manifold. But plenty of fuel when I pulled it from the part that goes into the injector rail. So if I try again, I will need to take the throttle body and I did not have the right socket on me.

In either case, I replaced the fuel filter. The old filter had plenty of fuel in it so it is getting pressure from the fuel pump. When the gas came out of the "bottom" side of the filter it was brown.

I tried to start the car after I put the fuel filter in. Took 5 minutes to start. Eventually started after flooring it. It ran for about 5 minutes, then I shut it off and tried starting again and stopped after a very loud backfire.

While it was running I took the small hose off of the fuel pressure regulator and it was dry as can be the entire time.

I also took a jumper and grounded it from the transmission casing to the negative terminal on the battery... no dice.

Keep in mind that the car was running fine until it got colder and also before I filled the tank. So... injectors? I asked the prior owner of the old plugs were wet when he changed them out and he said no.

maxima297

Clips/clamps and hoses can be replaced. Those clamps are a biotch. I hate them.


Brown gas from fuel filter means it definitely needed changing.

Former3G

I dont even know at this point if I am going to replace the pressure regulator. It seems to not be leaking. Watched it for about 5 minutes and not a drip of fuel.

I will check the plugs next to see if they are wet. Not sure when I will be able to do that now though. Its going to be freezing this next week and holidays and all.

Im just at a loss right now. May just have it towed to a shop

Rit

iTrader: (3)

Without a clue, getting it to a shop is probably your best bet. There are a lot of parts that you can throw at it before you luck upon the right one. Of course, a crappy shop will do the same thing, and they will charge a lot more for the parts, plus labor $$.

You're caught between a rock and a hard place, unfortunately.

Just re-read your info and thinking - might there be water in the gas that you filled the tank with ? Try spraying some starting fluid (Ether) into the intake hose to see if it fires. If so, then you know you have a fuel issue and you have something to concentrate on.

CS_AR

Running rich can be caused by leaking injectors.



I had the problem like this a few years ago. I had the car towed to the dealer. The dealer couldn't figure it out and told me I needed a new engine. I think I paid something like $700 for several days of diagnostic work to no avail. I finally said BS and had the car towed to my home where I found the issue after about 15 minutes of diagnostic work in my driveway.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, the car starts after holding the accelerator to the floor. Basically you're opening the throttle body to a wide open position that is often used to clear a flooding condition.

Backfiring and dieseling, I've seen that with leaking injectors that continue to dump into the intake for a few seconds after the car has been shut off.

In my case I had two injectors that were dumping an excessive amount of fuel in both right and left banks. The too much fuel problem had gone unnoticed for a long time. It resulted in cooking (overheating) the cats to the point where they became clogged.

Have you ever heard of the old "potato in the exhaust pipe" trick that people would do as a prank to keep a car from starting? Engines need to breath to be able to run. If the exhaust is clogged, the engine will be hard to start and keep running. Sometimes they won't start at all if the exhaust is completely obstructed.

To find the problem in my driveway, I removed the upstream O2 sensors. I left the sensors connected to wiring, while securing them a place under the engine where they would not dangle if I decided to drive the car. O2 sensors get hot so don't touch them if you do this and have secured them in a place where they won't do damage if you get it running.

The open hole in the exhaust manifold that was previously closed by the O2 sensor allowed the engine to breathe so it would start, run and drive. It was loud, but it ran. So it turned out the cooked cats were caused by leaking injectors. I refurbished the injectors with new o-rings, screens, and pintle caps to remedy the flooding problem.

After I started driving the car again, I later found a failing EGR valve. The EGR problem appeared after I cleaned and cleared a clogged EGR tube. Basically after clearing the clogged tubes, having an EGR valve that was not properly closing created symptoms that were like an intermittent vacuum leak.

I can tell you first hand that my 98 Maxima had an EGR that was so clogged that I had to take a chisel to force open the hole where it feeds into the UIM. It ran ok before I cleaned the tube. So a clogged EGR will not keep the engine from running. Engines just run better when the EGR is open and functioning properly.

Another way I was able to pinpoint the cylinders where the injectors were leaking was to pull the plugs after trying to start the engine and finding a wet plug. I found two wet plugs from excessive flooding.

You might look into ruling out a flooding condition that is caused by leaking injector o-rings.

CS_AR

After rereading this thread, I see you have headers and cats removed, so clogged cats can't be part of the problem.

Another item to check is the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor (ECTS). If the ECTS is sending the wrong signal to your ECU, it may think you engine is warm when it is cold or cold when it is hot. Thus causing a mismatch between actual engine temp and ECU regulation.

Here's a video about testing the ECTS.

Former3G

I am really trying to avoid a shop. I got the car knowing that it would be a project. The issue is that I need to move it from the spot that its in since its in a public parking space at my complex. Neighbors are hating on me i'm sure due to lack of parking

I may try out the starting fluid idea.

Yeah, no cats. But it makes me wonder if the headers and catless exhaust are causing some sort of air mixture issue. I do plan on replacing the exhaust but the headers are too much work so I plan in just keeping them in place.

I was planning on researching for that ECTS. I saw that in a couple of threads. Thank you for the video!

JvG

As I am reading this over again, I noticed that after all the parts have been replaced by the previous owner and the current one, only one likely cause remains.

Fuel injectors.

Replace them. At the very least, replace the three which are easy to get to with new or known good injectors.

You have a 50 percent change of solving your problem quickly. Otherwise you might also have to remove the intake manifold to get at the back ones.

One good thing about all those new parts. The car should run quite well once the problem is fixed.

The gassy smell, flooring the pedal to get it to run at all, were all classic symtoms of engine flooding caused by flooded conditions.

In the old days, the cause was a bad choke or carburetor
which provided too much fuel.

Broken pintil caps on the injectors have very similar symtoms.

They are now quite common on our cars.

CS_AR

^ well stated JH.

I have a thread in construction for replacing injectors (page 1) and refurbishing (page 2).

It's not done yet and I need a couple of additional pictures and to document some story lines about time-saving techniques like the JIS driver, but it gives an idea of how easy it is to replace your injectors.

https://maxima.org/forums/test-posts...struction.html

maxima297

I'm fairly confident that it's injector related as well. Former's situation reminds me of my issue last month. After going through several guesses, it ended up being the one thing I had been planning to do for months and actually had requested time off to have done, except it happened 2 weeks earlier than I'd planned. I had resolved the no start issue, but still had the gas smell coupled with gas dripping from the exhaust. 2 of my rear injectors were dumping excess fuel into the system. And then cylinder 1 started misfiring. I replaced all 6 with a spare rail with supposedly working injectors on them, to discover that injector 1 was shot on that rail too. So I swapped that and injector 5 with 2 good ones off my rail. Problems solved.

Hopefully it's that simple for you as well.

Former3G

I plan on checking out the plugs today or this weekend to see if any of them are wet. Prior owner who still keeps in contact with me said the old ones were dry, but I am sure he was just looking for oil or they were dry by the time he pulled them.

If not, I will pull the front three injectors and cross my fingers. I am not sure if it is easier to repair them or just get new ones.

I have had no performance issues but have seen at times some excess smoke out of the exhaust while at idle.. but just periodically. No excess gas pouring out of the tail pipe, then again, its tough to tell since it is catless with a 4" tip. If it was misfiring, I wouldn't be able to hear it anyway I guess

Any suggestions for decent replacements?

Would cleaning the EGR help? It is still pulling that EGR code..

Thanks again guys. You are awesome. I've been a member of dozens of communities over the years and bar none, this is one of the most knowledgeable. I look forward to trying to tackle this with your help.

Former3G

Also, I will check the ECTS today with my multimeter, but its a cheap part so I will replace anyway. Is this a decent option?

https://www.amazon.com/TU222-Engine-...+nissan+maxima

Edit: actually, it does not look like it has the correct tab for the connector.

CS_AR

When you pull the UIM to get the rear injector rail, that will be the time to clean the EGR.

I recently purchased some injectors from eBay at $11 each that tested and worked out well. Though it took 3 weeks to get them from China.

I know a guy who recently purchased a set of rebuilt injectors from Amazon for $64. He hasn't installed them yet. I doubt he will have a problem.

I've refurbished injectors using a $34 CS Performance kit that I bought on eBay over three years ago. Those have worked out fine. I had some extra kit parts that I used a couple of weeks ago to refurb the ones in the pictures.

At a minimum, you can replace the o-rings and pintle caps for cheap. Screens cost a little more.

I guess it all depends on how fast you want to act on replacement, how much you want to do yourself, and your comfort level with stuff ordered online.

Former3G

We can check the ECTS off the list. At first the reading was high (3k ohms+) when still in the car and even higher when I removed it (around 3.5k ohms+). Keep in mind that outdoor temps are in the high 30's. Then I remembered temp sensitive and after around 20 minutes inside at 75F temps, the reading was 2k ohms and falling. Voltage and continuity were also good on the connector. I also cleaned up the main ground to the trans while I was down there and the sensor that is on the timing chain case (it is new so it was relatively lean).

Edit: I unplugged the MAF to see if the car would start to eliminate the idea that the MAF was bad.. no dice.. I also checked the resistance on the leads on the IAC and all
were 27.5 ohms. So I will scratch both of those as well.

I will check the plugs and injectors when I have a bit more daylight. This weekend will be tough with 20F temps, but I will see what I can do.


Thank you for the info. Makes sense about the EGR. I will look into the refurbs. I want to see what the front three look like before I buy anything.

maxima297

For what it's worth, you also have the option of pulling them from the local junkyard as a temporary fix. I found 2 rails of injectors, with a total of 8 fairly decent looking injectors. The rest were missing pintle caps or just looked grungy on the bottoms. I've had 3 of them on for about a month now without any issues. I'll be sending my original injectors out to be rebuilt, as it's so much cheaper than buying new ones, and I don't really have the time to rebuild them myself.

Former3G

I would do that if I had the time. If I am going to pull the UIM I may as well put in at least refurbished injectors or try out those Chinese ebay ones I am thinking (if I can find a set). I hate to put too much money into the car but its not doing me any good sitting around either. I'm lucky that the car hasn't gotten towed yet or received a violation notice from my community If only my garage wasn't full of useless crap.

Former3G

I was able to get the car started today after flooring it while cranking. It took about three tries. I allowed the car to idle to temperature and ran it for about 30 minutes sitting idle and tried to take some logs with the Torque app using my bluetooth OBDII (i will look at those later). Anyway, good news I was able to move the car to the street and out of the public parking spot.

Car ran and idled fine. What I did notice (keep in mind temps were in mid 30's) is the smoke from the exhaust while the car was warmed up. Also keep in mind no cats at all in the car. See video link below. The smoke was a light gray. Saw what may have been a blue tint. The engine bay and oil had a raw fuel smell.

CS_AR

It looks and sounds like a solid engine. I don't see oil leaks from the front VC. There is a small amount of oil on the right (rear) VC top side that indicates it may be due for new gaskets at some point. I don't hear a big misfire.

It looks like somebody did a good job of caring for it. The description of holding the accelerator open to get it to run says it cleared a flooding problem.

Just based on age (not mileage), I would refresh the injectors (e.g. multiple ways there to start with the easy ones) so that leaking o-rings will not contribute to a flooding problem and then start enjoying it.

Nice find.

Former3G

It was definitely well cared for. The interior is very clean as well. The car is a GXE, 5 speed with moonroof, fogs and has what appears to be GLE wheels.

I am already in the process of searching for injectors. I think that the smoke from the exhaust, which I should add I've only seen once or twice before, and the flooring it just confirms it.

Its just weird that the car ran fine, and would start each time with just a slight push of the the accelerator, then I filled the tank and could never really get it running since.

I was just glad to be able to get it out of the spot before it was towed. I am only allowed to have a car in a spot for 2 weeks max without moving. Was just a little more than 3 weeks.

Now at least I don't have to rush or get it towed.

CS_AR

Oh I remember those days of the "building super" -- back when I lived in NJ.

I refreshed the injectors on my 98 model as preventative maintenance. The car was running fine.

The picture on the left shows an o-ring what was starting to flatten out and loose its ability seal properly. Also, the injectors were extremely dirty from the previous owner neglecting to change the fuel filter. I know that I avoided future a flooding problem by proactively refreshing the injectors.

I think about critical rubber engine components like tires and hoses. Sooner or later they need to be replaced or they will fail. Its just a matter of when and where.

Former3G

In this case it is a townhouse complex, but strict HOA rules. I've already had a minor violation or two in the year that i've been there. But we have common public parking, along with the driveway (which belongs to the wife, along with all of the junk in the garage ).

Since I now have time, I am contemplating a rebuild of the injectors once I am able to get them out. If I go that route, I am also going to buy a few rebuilt or ebay injectors just in case. They are cheap enough. Nothing like taking the engine apart while sitting in the street. I appreciate the input.

I look forward to getting this car running... eventually.

maxima297

I have regular access to a yard that currently has 4 4th gens and a couple i30s. Would you like me to pull some rails and send you any good injectors I find?

Former3G

I have a couple places in mind online that I have been looking to purchase but have not yet pulled the trigger. By no means make a special trip but if you think you will be heading to a yard let me know. I'll obviously pay you for the parts, shipping and a little extra for your time. I appreciate the offer.

maxima297

It's no problem! Thanks to work fudging my schedule, I can't go til Tuesday anyways (I'm still hunting things down for my own car, so it's not a special trip). I'll let you know what I find

Former3G

Sure if you head out let me know and I will PM you my cell. It will always be good to have some extra parts.