I need help with my first street challenge from a 93 LUDE
07-09-2001, 06:38 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 872
Well I never have raced before but this guy keeps challenging me. His girlfriend tells me that he never loses races, only once to a supra. He does not have a SC or turbo, he just has bolt ons like headers, exhaust, and CAI. Could my car do it? Should I offer money on this? How fast are these cars? He has a big crazy looking body kit on it too.
Now the bad part. How do you race? What I am guessing it rev it to 3000 and let out the clutch so that it doesn't spin the wheels. Am I right? Can someone help so that I don't lose?
This all came up because my coworker told me that her boyfriend was selling his car and someone offered $20,000 for it. I told her it was a ripoff because you could get a new Maxima cheaper than that used piece of crap PLUS, the Maxima goes faster.
!AYUDAME POR FAVOR MUY RAPIDO!
Now the bad part. How do you race? What I am guessing it rev it to 3000 and let out the clutch so that it doesn't spin the wheels. Am I right? Can someone help so that I don't lose?
This all came up because my coworker told me that her boyfriend was selling his car and someone offered $20,000 for it. I told her it was a ripoff because you could get a new Maxima cheaper than that used piece of crap PLUS, the Maxima goes faster.
!AYUDAME POR FAVOR MUY RAPIDO!
07-09-2001, 07:25 PM
#3
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Posts: n/a
It could be close
I still have my '95 Lude VTEC (for sale BTW to any Honda readers out there) along with my '01 Maxima AE 5 speed, so I might be able to provide some input. If his is a VTEC it will be a close race - and if he's good with the clutch and the revs, he'll beat you.
The Maxima can be quicker off the line, but the VTEC is geared better to keep it in the powerband. So, don't feel too confident if you pull away from a stop - I've had minivans get the jump on me; but from 5000 rpm's on, Good bye. If he doesn't care about tires and clutch, however, he can meet or beat you off the line if he chooses to drop the clutch at insanely high revs (and it's a good, grabby unit).
Another comparo: Magazine best 0-60 on a 93-96 Prelude VTEC was 6.4 seconds. Best I've seen for the Max so far is 6.7. BUT, the flatter torque band on the Max is more forgiving of less than optimum shift points, unlike the 'lude. I've heard mods to Preludes for intake and exhaust increase peak hp at the sacrifice of bottom end - making it even more of a challenge for the 'lude driver to get optimized acceleration runs.
If he's got non-VTEC with mods, you might have the edge. I think SI Preludes got to 60 in around 7.5; but you never know. SI engines were a bit torquier down low than the VTECs. I've even heard SI's were the 'lude of choice for Solo II because of that.
It's pretty funny - I drive my Max for awhile and I think it feels quicker than my Prelude. Then I jump in the Prelude and my mind is changed back the other direction. It might be because of the lower engine drama in the Max. One thing for sure - there is no argument which car's suspension is better. The "multi-link beam" is a huge joke compared to the Prelude's set up.
The Maxima can be quicker off the line, but the VTEC is geared better to keep it in the powerband. So, don't feel too confident if you pull away from a stop - I've had minivans get the jump on me; but from 5000 rpm's on, Good bye. If he doesn't care about tires and clutch, however, he can meet or beat you off the line if he chooses to drop the clutch at insanely high revs (and it's a good, grabby unit).
Another comparo: Magazine best 0-60 on a 93-96 Prelude VTEC was 6.4 seconds. Best I've seen for the Max so far is 6.7. BUT, the flatter torque band on the Max is more forgiving of less than optimum shift points, unlike the 'lude. I've heard mods to Preludes for intake and exhaust increase peak hp at the sacrifice of bottom end - making it even more of a challenge for the 'lude driver to get optimized acceleration runs.
If he's got non-VTEC with mods, you might have the edge. I think SI Preludes got to 60 in around 7.5; but you never know. SI engines were a bit torquier down low than the VTECs. I've even heard SI's were the 'lude of choice for Solo II because of that.
It's pretty funny - I drive my Max for awhile and I think it feels quicker than my Prelude. Then I jump in the Prelude and my mind is changed back the other direction. It might be because of the lower engine drama in the Max. One thing for sure - there is no argument which car's suspension is better. The "multi-link beam" is a huge joke compared to the Prelude's set up.
07-09-2001, 08:43 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,628
Re: It could be close
Originally posted by maxleaner
I still have my '95 Lude VTEC (for sale BTW to any Honda readers out there) along with my '01 Maxima AE 5 speed, so I might be able to provide some input. If his is a VTEC it will be a close race - and if he's good with the clutch and the revs, he'll beat you.
The Maxima can be quicker off the line, but the VTEC is geared better to keep it in the powerband. So, don't feel too confident if you pull away from a stop - I've had minivans get the jump on me; but from 5000 rpm's on, Good bye. If he doesn't care about tires and clutch, however, he can meet or beat you off the line if he chooses to drop the clutch at insanely high revs (and it's a good, grabby unit).
Another comparo: Magazine best 0-60 on a 93-96 Prelude VTEC was 6.4 seconds. Best I've seen for the Max so far is 6.7. BUT, the flatter torque band on the Max is more forgiving of less than optimum shift points, unlike the 'lude. I've heard mods to Preludes for intake and exhaust increase peak hp at the sacrifice of bottom end - making it even more of a challenge for the 'lude driver to get optimized acceleration runs.
If he's got non-VTEC with mods, you might have the edge. I think SI Preludes got to 60 in around 7.5; but you never know. SI engines were a bit torquier down low than the VTECs. I've even heard SI's were the 'lude of choice for Solo II because of that.
It's pretty funny - I drive my Max for awhile and I think it feels quicker than my Prelude. Then I jump in the Prelude and my mind is changed back the other direction. It might be because of the lower engine drama in the Max. One thing for sure - there is no argument which car's suspension is better. The "multi-link beam" is a huge joke compared to the Prelude's set up.
I still have my '95 Lude VTEC (for sale BTW to any Honda readers out there) along with my '01 Maxima AE 5 speed, so I might be able to provide some input. If his is a VTEC it will be a close race - and if he's good with the clutch and the revs, he'll beat you.
The Maxima can be quicker off the line, but the VTEC is geared better to keep it in the powerband. So, don't feel too confident if you pull away from a stop - I've had minivans get the jump on me; but from 5000 rpm's on, Good bye. If he doesn't care about tires and clutch, however, he can meet or beat you off the line if he chooses to drop the clutch at insanely high revs (and it's a good, grabby unit).
Another comparo: Magazine best 0-60 on a 93-96 Prelude VTEC was 6.4 seconds. Best I've seen for the Max so far is 6.7. BUT, the flatter torque band on the Max is more forgiving of less than optimum shift points, unlike the 'lude. I've heard mods to Preludes for intake and exhaust increase peak hp at the sacrifice of bottom end - making it even more of a challenge for the 'lude driver to get optimized acceleration runs.
If he's got non-VTEC with mods, you might have the edge. I think SI Preludes got to 60 in around 7.5; but you never know. SI engines were a bit torquier down low than the VTECs. I've even heard SI's were the 'lude of choice for Solo II because of that.
It's pretty funny - I drive my Max for awhile and I think it feels quicker than my Prelude. Then I jump in the Prelude and my mind is changed back the other direction. It might be because of the lower engine drama in the Max. One thing for sure - there is no argument which car's suspension is better. The "multi-link beam" is a huge joke compared to the Prelude's set up.
07-09-2001, 08:57 PM
#5
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Posts: n/a
I raced a newer (not newest) prelude off the line and he crapped all over me till about 70 when he stopped pulling. By then he was like 2 lengths ahead. We ended up on the highway together, and i was able to pull very slightly on him past 90 or so. Traffic was nonexistent, so we did it a few times, with the same results, exchanged props and he took off down his exit. They're pretty quick bone stock and not well known enough for being so. Kinda like the max...
07-09-2001, 10:09 PM
#8
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Posts: n/a
my guess is that your cars are on equal footing. in a street race, a few tenths of a second doesn't mean crap, that can be made up by the driver. just have a fast and furious attitude and be confident. i think you can take him. i raced a 2k prelude couples a day ago with headers, intake, and exhaust and he never got passed me. good luck aiite... peace!
07-09-2001, 11:01 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Practice your launchs. 3500-4000 rpm..let the clutch out quick but do not dump. As soon as you feel the tires grip full release the clutch and hit the gas. It becomes intuitive based on some clutch gas manipulation. Make sure you have good even tire pressure as well. With your Intake/Y-Pipe you will be fine. I have yet to see a modded prelude pull even with me. Damn with the y-pipe on our 3rd/4th gear is soo swwwweeeeeett! Have not tested 5th gear yet at wot out of 4th....never really a chance and that is too damn fast for me....I assume it must pull nice after 120+?
PS Inspect the guys car closely for his mods (sc/turbo he forgot to mention) or NOS. Then decide if you want to bet money.
PS Inspect the guys car closely for his mods (sc/turbo he forgot to mention) or NOS. Then decide if you want to bet money.
07-10-2001, 03:56 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
VTEC
On the 93 to present Prelude VTEC (all models 1997 and after have DOHC VTEC), the timing and lift is varied on both intake and exhaust cams. There is a sticker on the back, and the cam cover on the engine are indicators it is VTEC.
There are only two timing profiles in this set up. The 2002 Integra RSX has the first iVTEC (for Honda) - i stands for infinitely variable.
Anyway the cam switchover is at 4400 rpm, the secondary air intakes open around 5500 for stock set up. 5500 is where the drama starts.
Basically the way it works is the higher lift cam lobes "free wheel" below a certain rpm, throttle postion etc.. Above a certain rpm, pins connect the lower lift with the higher lift, essentially making the higher lift lobes take precedence. I think that's how they state it. I have a tech manual that probably states it better.
BTW, the 260 hp 2002 max appears to have infinitely variable valve timing (not sure about lift) - so its torque curve will probably be nice and flat.
There are only two timing profiles in this set up. The 2002 Integra RSX has the first iVTEC (for Honda) - i stands for infinitely variable.
Anyway the cam switchover is at 4400 rpm, the secondary air intakes open around 5500 for stock set up. 5500 is where the drama starts.
Basically the way it works is the higher lift cam lobes "free wheel" below a certain rpm, throttle postion etc.. Above a certain rpm, pins connect the lower lift with the higher lift, essentially making the higher lift lobes take precedence. I think that's how they state it. I have a tech manual that probably states it better.
BTW, the 260 hp 2002 max appears to have infinitely variable valve timing (not sure about lift) - so its torque curve will probably be nice and flat.
07-10-2001, 04:15 PM
#13
Re: VTEC
Up until the IVTEC was introduced, VTEC was just like having two different cam profiles. One for low end and one for high end. There was no extra provision to alter the cam timing(other than what the 2nd cam's lift and duration profiles are). What I'm tryint to say is in order to alter the cam timing, there would have to be a cam timing altering device mounted on either the intake/exhaust/or both cams. As far as I know, up until now, such devices didn't exist on these Honda engines.
The NSX might have had some of these cam timing technology but the lower forms of Honda didn't.
The NSX might have had some of these cam timing technology but the lower forms of Honda didn't.
Originally posted by maxleaner
On the 93 to present Prelude VTEC (all models 1997 and after have DOHC VTEC), the timing and lift is varied on both intake and exhaust cams. There is a sticker on the back, and the cam cover on the engine are indicators it is VTEC.
There are only two timing profiles in this set up. The 2002 Integra RSX has the first iVTEC (for Honda) - i stands for infinitely variable.
Anyway the cam switchover is at 4400 rpm, the secondary air intakes open around 5500 for stock set up. 5500 is where the drama starts.
Basically the way it works is the higher lift cam lobes "free wheel" below a certain rpm, throttle postion etc.. Above a certain rpm, pins connect the lower lift with the higher lift, essentially making the higher lift lobes take precedence. I think that's how they state it. I have a tech manual that probably states it better.
BTW, the 260 hp 2002 max appears to have infinitely variable valve timing (not sure about lift) - so its torque curve will probably be nice and flat.
On the 93 to present Prelude VTEC (all models 1997 and after have DOHC VTEC), the timing and lift is varied on both intake and exhaust cams. There is a sticker on the back, and the cam cover on the engine are indicators it is VTEC.
There are only two timing profiles in this set up. The 2002 Integra RSX has the first iVTEC (for Honda) - i stands for infinitely variable.
Anyway the cam switchover is at 4400 rpm, the secondary air intakes open around 5500 for stock set up. 5500 is where the drama starts.
Basically the way it works is the higher lift cam lobes "free wheel" below a certain rpm, throttle postion etc.. Above a certain rpm, pins connect the lower lift with the higher lift, essentially making the higher lift lobes take precedence. I think that's how they state it. I have a tech manual that probably states it better.
BTW, the 260 hp 2002 max appears to have infinitely variable valve timing (not sure about lift) - so its torque curve will probably be nice and flat.
07-10-2001, 04:23 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,090
well, i will tell you this, one of my friends have a 93 lude, and he has driven it with the exhaust and CAI, but not the header, and even my car can beat it. It's a non VTEC but if I can beat the car, a 5th gen certainly should hand it it's lunch.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
07-10-2001, 04:48 PM
#15
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Posts: n/a
Don't worry about stickers and labels on the car. Look at the engine and mods closely...ie he can have an engine conversion or something....or maybe NOS. Basically if you are betting money then look at what your betting on or against. If you have never raced before you will probably lose since this guy seems to have some sort of rep and obvious experience.
Originally posted by DOM
So should I stay away? How can I tell if it is a VTEC or not? Is there some kind of sticker on it?
So should I stay away? How can I tell if it is a VTEC or not? Is there some kind of sticker on it?
07-10-2001, 10:08 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 872
So this is proper ettiquete (?) to see what he has under the hood first before a race? Let stay on topic please! What kind of stats could he have stock and how much do the mods weigh in on his car? I was hanging out with his girl and she is not sure what he has but I did forget to ask if he has any bottles in the car.
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