My newest protoype
10-18-2011, 04:30 AM
#81
Anyway, what I'm saying is that most of the ES bushings I would consider a mod, or an upgrade over stock. People swap out bushings for ES product for that very reason, long before their car is 10 years old or older and bushings wear out. That situation doesn't seem to apply to these two engine mounts.
It's all conjecture, Spock. But that's my thinking anyway.
And as I said up front, if I were keeping the car, I'd be on this list. Knight's project seems like a great idea: new end-mount bushings that are better than OEM. That sounds great.
10-18-2011, 06:17 PM
#82
perhaps a scale of 10, 1 being saggy titty soft, and 10 being 21 year old at the strip club getting a lap dance hard.
10-18-2011, 07:04 PM
#86
These are all 1" discs by about 1/8 thick. First one is 90a, and I cannot fold it with my left hand. Second is 83a, u can fold it halfway and third is 60 which is pretty soft
10-18-2011, 07:13 PM
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,349
Cane Creek makes a seatpost called a Thudbuster that uses removable color coded inserts. You adjust them according to your body weight and how soft/hard you want the shock absorbancy. Their hardest "setting" is also color coded black as well. Must be a univeral system of some sorts with poly?
10-19-2011, 04:12 AM
#90
How about trying some PTFE (Teflon)? You can get all shapes and sizes of raw stock from McMaster/Carr. It's a bit more compliant than Delrin/Nylon and almost as easy to machine. You could probably make 2x 1/2 thickness bushings and press them into the mount from both sides. Once the inner sleeve and mount is in place it wouldn't move or separate axially. I made some LCA bushings like this years ago for my V6 Capri and they worked well.
10-19-2011, 05:45 AM
#91
10-19-2011, 05:56 AM
#92
How about trying some PTFE (Teflon)? You can get all shapes and sizes of raw stock from McMaster/Carr. It's a bit more compliant than Delrin/Nylon and almost as easy to machine. You could probably make 2x 1/2 thickness bushings and press them into the mount from both sides. Once the inner sleeve and mount is in place it wouldn't move or separate axially. I made some LCA bushings like this years ago for my V6 Capri and they worked well.
10-19-2011, 09:22 AM
#94
I noticed they do not differentiate between left and right, so perhaps they are the same size. Maybe someone who has installed the ES mounts can confirm if they are the same...
Also, they offer them for manual transmission only. I don't know what the difference between the AT and MT motor mounts, so although [OP] you mentioned earlier that your inserts will fit the AT models, just want to confirm that on my 01 AT, I would just have to remove the old insert and press in yours in my existing housings? Very interested - TIA.
10-19-2011, 09:51 AM
#95
The ES bushings are for the motor mounts. The auto's have an electronic mount. With an auto, you have to source a manual transmission car motor mount in order to install the inserts.
Knight's inserts replace the other mounts located 1. at the transmission and 2. at the upper part of the engine (passenger side).
Edit: Or that is Knight's plan anyway!
Knight's inserts replace the other mounts located 1. at the transmission and 2. at the upper part of the engine (passenger side).
Edit: Or that is Knight's plan anyway!
10-19-2011, 09:57 AM
#96
The ES bushings are for the motor mounts. The auto's have an electronic mount. With an auto, you have to source a manual transmission car motor mount in order to install the inserts.
Knight's inserts replace the other mounts located 1. at the transmission and 2. at the upper part of the engine (passenger side).
Knight's inserts replace the other mounts located 1. at the transmission and 2. at the upper part of the engine (passenger side).
FYI, apparently it's not necessary to source a MT motor mount to use the ES busings on the 00-01 models.
I copied this directly from their website's part description:
"2002-2003 Fits the 3.5 Models Manual transmission Only
1995-2001 Fits the 3.0 Models Manual transmission Only
Automatic Transmission Models use an Electric Mount. These will replace those but these are not electric."
If I'm reading this thread correctly, installing Knight's inserts will alleviate some of the torque steer, or just the wheel hop?
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
#97
I am hoping to replace the upper mounts. It will eliminate the saggy engine, and the very common clunk over bumps. Possibly wheel hop as well.
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
10-19-2011, 10:24 AM
#98
[quote=EuroDriver;8240220]According to ES's website, Yes. Same mount inserts for 95-03: http://energysuspension.com/assets/f...on-catalog.pdf (@ p.49; p.50 of the pdf file)[quote]
This is for the motor mounts, not Knight's front mount - my bad, so still no confirmation it will fit 4th gen.
Yeah, sorry, I hadn't realized your application is different than the motor mounts that ES sells.
Please advise when you confirm whether it will also work for the tranny (rear) mount as well. Will add myself to list once this is confirmed.
This is for the motor mounts, not Knight's front mount - my bad, so still no confirmation it will fit 4th gen.
I am hoping to replace the upper mounts. It will eliminate the saggy engine, and the very common clunk over bumps. Possibly wheel hop as well.
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
Please advise when you confirm whether it will also work for the tranny (rear) mount as well. Will add myself to list once this is confirmed.
10-19-2011, 10:39 AM
#100
I am hoping to replace the upper mounts. It will eliminate the saggy engine, and the very common clunk over bumps. Possibly wheel hop as well.
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
As to fitment on a 4th gen I can't comment as u do not have 4rh gen mounts. Perhaps someone with a 4th gen and a 5th gen motor swap can jump in and comment
10-19-2011, 10:50 AM
#101
Ok, people are adding info without reading the whole thread. The upper mounts are different from left to right. And from Auto to MT. BUT the rubber bushing might be the same size. We won't know that until they are physically measured. So unless you have actually measured the inside rubber piece encased in the metal sleeve please refrain from posting about fitment.
Last edited by knight_yyz; 10-19-2011 at 10:55 AM.
10-19-2011, 11:10 AM
#102
Ok, people are adding info without reading the while thread. The upper mounts are different from left to right. And from Auto to MT. BUT they might be the same size. We won't know that until they are physically measured. So unless you have acruall measured the inside rubber piece encased in the metal sleeve please refrain from posting.
1) Your prototype is for the upper mount at the front of the engine (the mount near the passenger side inner fender well; the right side of the car).
2) It is still unconfirmed if the rear upper mount (driver side) is the same size.
What I'd like clarification on, is if your prototype (1), above - the upper mount on the passenger side) will fit in an automatic transmission mount housing. If I read your thread correctly, they are the same diameter on MT and AT, or is that still not confirmed either?
Thanks and sorry again for mucking up your thread...
10-19-2011, 12:17 PM
#103
The upper right hand side mount use the same housing for auto and MT. Just the inner bushing is different. I do not have anything on the left hand trans mount, but I am picking one up Saturday on my way to work. I will gut that one (auto) and measure it up. I have a 6 speed so I will measure that on Sunday after I am done installing the prototype.
10-19-2011, 02:25 PM
#104
I agree 100% and you're doing a great job designing this part. But from looking at your (Aluminum/Acrylic) prototypes it seems like you could increase the major dia. of the 1/2 insert to be greater than the mount housing and change the angle. Make the 1/2 insert minor dia. a press fit in the housing without the need for the spacer. A reamed hole sized for a press fit on the inner bolt sleeve would work with the larger insert flange, minor dia. and a butt joint length geometry to stabilize the 2 piece insert. Since PTFE is really easy to machine you could start with a reamed hole/faced to length blank. Then you could quickly and accurately; machine mirror image outside geometries of 1/2 inserts on a mandrel, in one lathe setup, with a form tool, by the dozens. BTW; If you haven't guessed by now, I was a Prototype Machinist for 20+yrs. I love this kind of stuff! I'm just thinking out of the box on a way you could get this part into production. Without being IMHO gouged for a molded part. From looking at your machining work, a 2 piece machined insert would only cost you the price of the stock and the time to machine them.
Last edited by BobPezz; 10-19-2011 at 02:29 PM.
10-19-2011, 02:33 PM
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 539
Sweet Knight, I'm in for a set if they end up fitting both. Unfortuneatly, early summer I did the transverse mount and tossed the old one(dammit). So I'll be gutting a new mount, but I'm pretty sure the tranny mount is on it's way out, so I hope they are the same 
10-19-2011, 02:46 PM
#106
I agree 100% and you're doing a great job designing this part. But from looking at your (Aluminum/Acrylic) prototypes it seems like you could increase the major dia. of the 1/2 insert to be greater than the mount housing and change the angle. Make the 1/2 insert minor dia. a press fit in the housing without the need for the spacer. A reamed hole sized for a press fit on the inner bolt sleeve would work with the larger insert flange, minor dia. and a butt joint length geometry to stabilize the 2 piece insert. Since PTFE is really easy to machine you could start with a reamed hole/faced to length blank. Then you could quickly and accurately; machine mirror image outside geometries of 1/2 inserts on a mandrel, in one lathe setup, with a form tool, by the dozens. BTW; If you haven't guessed by now, I was a Prototype Machinist for 20+yrs. I love this kind of stuff! I'm just thinking out of the box on a way you could get this part into production. Without being IMHO gouged for a molded part. From looking at your machining work, a 2 piece machined insert would only cost you the price of the stock and the time to machine them.
10-19-2011, 05:38 PM
#107
I think your idea has merit, and after thinking it over I may be able ti make the best of both our ideas. ES Cab bushings use a simulate 2 piece design so I will ask them to quote me a smaller poly bushing which will slip fit into both ends of the mount like ES did with our LCAB, at the king pin. Then people would only have to pay to press out rhe old bushing. The new ones could just be tapped in with a hammer feim both ends, then tap in the sleeve. I will get a quote and we'll see what they say
10-19-2011, 09:21 PM
#110
Good new guys, thanks to ghost_54 i am now in possession of an auto mount for the trans side. Preliminary measurements show that the automatic version of the drivers side trans mount is the same size as the passenger side. I have to gut it to get an exact reading but it is within 1/2mm. which probably means it will be the same size. if not i can always make the other one 1/2mm bigger and it would still fit. I will attempt to measure the 6MT model on the weekend. I will post pics tomorrow
10-20-2011, 04:10 AM
#111
That would depend on how much you make per hour. And I dont think my boss will allow me to machine 50 or so pieces. And I think plastic is too inflexible for this job. How much do you think it would cost to buy the material, in Canada, and machine at least 20 pieces at 35 bucks an hour? I think the poly mount at 40 a pop is a good deal, it is almost the same size as the torque mounts and about the same price.
Last edited by BobPezz; 10-20-2011 at 04:24 AM.
10-20-2011, 04:15 AM
#112
10-20-2011, 09:45 AM
#115
I had to look that up. Silly me, I thought it was some kind of forum slang. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-h...t_polyethylene
I was telling the wifey about your project this morning, and she said, "Do you want to get these for your car?" That was sweet of her, but
... I'm selling next Spring, so it doesn't make sense.
Otherwise. I. Would. Buy. These.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-h...t_polyethylene
I was telling the wifey about your project this morning, and she said, "Do you want to get these for your car?" That was sweet of her, but
... I'm selling next Spring, so it doesn't make sense.Otherwise. I. Would. Buy. These.
10-20-2011, 12:11 PM
#116
10-20-2011, 12:26 PM
#117
Ok guys, I have confirmed that both uppers on an auto are the same size within less than a half mm. The mounts are not round because of the manufacturing process but we can use the same poly bushing in both sides. Woohoo!. Just have to wait until Sunday to confirm the 6mt's but I'm confident this will work all around for both trans types.
10-20-2011, 12:28 PM
#118
It will be end if November delivery at earliest. My company is sending me to Germany for two weeks in November 13-26: so hoping to pick up when I get back. Just waiting for confirmation on the quote for one piece and two piece design
10-20-2011, 12:56 PM
#119
That's pretty tough stuff! As you say way too hard. What area do you work in, medical devices/prosthetics? We used a similar material for bearing surface applications, when PTFE was too soft. My area was Military/Aerospace. But since almost all the R&D fabrication jobs in the U.S. were outsourced. I'm now in OT working at a nursing home, helping elders learn to wash their butts again after surgery etc. Give my left nut for the opportunity to use a Lathe or Bridgeport again for "government jobs".
10-20-2011, 01:34 PM
#120
By trade I am a tool and die maker working for a tier 1 automotive supplier. But I am more industrial mechanic, fixing the automation lines, cnc machines, robotics etc. So we have a plethora of materials to use.