Lowered the car now rear axle bent?
09-14-2013, 06:56 AM
#1
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 50
Lowered the car now rear axle bent?
Sorry im a noob to all this, But i put my H&R lowring springs on, took my car to get it aligned and they told me that my rear axle is bent. and that i would need to get a new axle beam. I talked to someone and they told me i need a camber kit. I also looked online and fount this QT link for a sentra. What should i do?
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175733 - QT link
Dont know if you can see that. When i got my alignment done before my springs it was perfectly fine. and didnt get into any accidents.
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175733 - QT link
Dont know if you can see that. When i got my alignment done before my springs it was perfectly fine. and didnt get into any accidents.
09-14-2013, 07:19 AM
#2
No way springs "bent" anything. There is no such animal as a camber kit for the rear. There is NO SUCH THING as a rear alignment on these cars given the rear beam. It's just not possible.
There's only a couple things that can happen in terms of alignment. First, although I've heard no evidence of this, I imagine that if your rear trailing arm bushings go bad that there could be some movement of the rear beam and throw the tracking of the rear end off. But, that is resolved with replacing the bushings with ES inserts. There's a few threads on that.
Second, (and this is the main issue people deal with) that when you lower.... the rear beam will begin to shift toward the passenger side. There are MANY threads outligning this, specifically the ones that talk about that QT link you mentioned. So, I'm not going to get into the dynamics. But, if your rear has shifted to the passenger side and you begin to have wheel scrub on that side when you hit bad dips in the road.... getting the QT link can help because it will push the rear beam back toward the driver side.
Third, I have heard a couple reports of the rear beam getting bent. How? I'm not sure but I imagine an accident or something. However, I'd get this confirmed. I suspect the bend would be visable.
Other than that, there are NO adjustments on the beam for alignment.
There's only a couple things that can happen in terms of alignment. First, although I've heard no evidence of this, I imagine that if your rear trailing arm bushings go bad that there could be some movement of the rear beam and throw the tracking of the rear end off. But, that is resolved with replacing the bushings with ES inserts. There's a few threads on that.
Second, (and this is the main issue people deal with) that when you lower.... the rear beam will begin to shift toward the passenger side. There are MANY threads outligning this, specifically the ones that talk about that QT link you mentioned. So, I'm not going to get into the dynamics. But, if your rear has shifted to the passenger side and you begin to have wheel scrub on that side when you hit bad dips in the road.... getting the QT link can help because it will push the rear beam back toward the driver side.
Third, I have heard a couple reports of the rear beam getting bent. How? I'm not sure but I imagine an accident or something. However, I'd get this confirmed. I suspect the bend would be visable.
Other than that, there are NO adjustments on the beam for alignment.
09-14-2013, 07:32 AM
#3
Went ahead and did some searching for you specifically about bent beams. I'll let you search about the QT link, ES bushings, etc.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...beam-bent.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...help-guys.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...beam-bent.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...help-guys.html
09-14-2013, 08:55 PM
#6
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 50
The weird thing is the driver side tire look to be further out then the passenger tire. And i have not put the bolts back in for the support brace yet. would this change anything? gonna try to do it tomorrow and see the results.
09-15-2013, 07:12 AM
#9
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Lowering a 5th gen Maxima will not effect or change the tracking (alignment) of the rear in any way. It's a fixed solid beam set up.
If your previous alignment showed the rear tracking correctly and you haven't hit anything, then I'd question the accuracy of the whole job and the tech that did it.
With toe out as indicated, the rear should feel a little squirmy and the vehicle might not hold a solid straight track. Is this happening?
If your previous alignment showed the rear tracking correctly and you haven't hit anything, then I'd question the accuracy of the whole job and the tech that did it.
With toe out as indicated, the rear should feel a little squirmy and the vehicle might not hold a solid straight track. Is this happening?
Last edited by njmaxseltd; 09-15-2013 at 07:15 AM.
09-15-2013, 08:08 AM
#10
09-16-2013, 10:54 AM
#15
I'm just speaking personally here, but I've read those write ups and done lots of work on the rear beam. How the rear beam in its stock form can be "recentered" is beyond me. The issue is with the link mechanism in the middle, it is fixed, there is NOTHING on the rear beam and how it bolts up that is adjustable or not fixed.
Technically speaking, even the QT link is arguably NOT the correct fix for the shift of the beam to the right when lowering. The proper way of correcting this behavior would be to make the primary link adjustable along with the QT link. But, that would be unfeasable cost wise. The QT link does work, but only in that it essentially forces the main link to "stretch" at the rubber bushing where the main link bolts to the rear beam. I won't be surprised if people start seeing that bushing fail after a while. I know I'm keeping an eye in mine. But, in absence of a better option, I need my QT link and plan to keep it. Just mindful of that bushing.
Technically speaking, even the QT link is arguably NOT the correct fix for the shift of the beam to the right when lowering. The proper way of correcting this behavior would be to make the primary link adjustable along with the QT link. But, that would be unfeasable cost wise. The QT link does work, but only in that it essentially forces the main link to "stretch" at the rubber bushing where the main link bolts to the rear beam. I won't be surprised if people start seeing that bushing fail after a while. I know I'm keeping an eye in mine. But, in absence of a better option, I need my QT link and plan to keep it. Just mindful of that bushing.
Last edited by Chris Gregg; 09-16-2013 at 10:57 AM.
09-16-2013, 12:36 PM
#16
I'm just speaking personally here, but I've read those write ups and done lots of work on the rear beam. How the rear beam in its stock form can be "recentered" is beyond me. The issue is with the link mechanism in the middle, it is fixed, there is NOTHING on the rear beam and how it bolts up that is adjustable or not fixed.
Technically speaking, even the QT link is arguably NOT the correct fix for the shift of the beam to the right when lowering. The proper way of correcting this behavior would be to make the primary link adjustable along with the QT link. But, that would be unfeasable cost wise. The QT link does work, but only in that it essentially forces the main link to "stretch" at the rubber bushing where the main link bolts to the rear beam. I won't be surprised if people start seeing that bushing fail after a while. I know I'm keeping an eye in mine. But, in absence of a better option, I need my QT link and plan to keep it. Just mindful of that bushing.
Technically speaking, even the QT link is arguably NOT the correct fix for the shift of the beam to the right when lowering. The proper way of correcting this behavior would be to make the primary link adjustable along with the QT link. But, that would be unfeasable cost wise. The QT link does work, but only in that it essentially forces the main link to "stretch" at the rubber bushing where the main link bolts to the rear beam. I won't be surprised if people start seeing that bushing fail after a while. I know I'm keeping an eye in mine. But, in absence of a better option, I need my QT link and plan to keep it. Just mindful of that bushing.
.I think this bushing along with the other side that connects the panhard to the unibody should be made out of delrin or poly to allow it to rotate, just like the RTA bushings.
Also, if the whole rear axle shift toward the passenger side when the car is lowered, it would have negative effect of the strut mounting, wouldn't it? The strut is fixed, only to move axially. This is more worrying I think since the strut is structural member.
If this is true, then the RTA mount is in bending also....
Last edited by Genes1s; 09-16-2013 at 12:45 PM.
09-16-2013, 12:46 PM
#17
How does the car drive? Can you let go of the steering on the highway and the car keeps going straight? Just to re-confirm what others have been saying, I have H&Rs on my car and I have nearly perfect alignment. My car will go straight even when I let go of the steering on the highway.
09-16-2013, 01:21 PM
#18
The beam can be re centered in term of equal height on both sides I think. This QT link would then provide equal fender gap sort of speak, but the bushing that attachs the panhard rod to the axle still bind which would cause it to fail IMO. Mine shows crack already.
.
I think this bushing along with the other side that connects the panhard to the unibody should be made out of delrin or poly to allow it to rotate, just like the RTA bushings.
Also, if the whole rear axle shift toward the passenger side when the car is lowered, it would have negative effect of the strut mounting, wouldn't it? The strut is fixed, only to move axially. This is more worrying I think since the strut is structural member.
If this is true, then the RTA mount is in bending also....
.I think this bushing along with the other side that connects the panhard to the unibody should be made out of delrin or poly to allow it to rotate, just like the RTA bushings.
Also, if the whole rear axle shift toward the passenger side when the car is lowered, it would have negative effect of the strut mounting, wouldn't it? The strut is fixed, only to move axially. This is more worrying I think since the strut is structural member.
If this is true, then the RTA mount is in bending also....
The rear struts actually allow for some movement, so no, I don't think they bind. They are bolted into a fixed position, but their ability to move is to allow compensation for suspension movement and the shifting of the rear beam. Though, their movement doesn't account for a point of adjustment.
The stock TA bushings are literally designed to move left/right as they have to work with the body roll of the car around corners. The ES bushing significantly hinder the amount of movement where the TA bolt up. Why installing them helps firm up the rear and further help to manage body roll and reduce rear suspension vibrations.
09-16-2013, 05:35 PM
#26
There's nothing dramatic or imminent about the rear beam being shifted.... Assuming that is the issue. When running standard offset wheels, scrubbing of the tire on the upper part of the wheel well is unlikely. Typically we only see rubbing when running 30 offset rims and wider tires (ie. 350z rims). The rear should still run straight, just that the position of both rear wheels will move right when lowered and a little more when he hit dips in the road and the rear end drops under load. Typically you will only see roughly 3-5mm of difference between the tire and wheel well gap from the passenger vs driver side.
Bent beams do happen, although rare. As mentioned above, there are also other issues (such as with bushings) which could cause the rear to not run straight or be measured as being "out of alignment". So it is important to verify any structural issues at the beginning.
I've not heard of anyone experiencing bushing failure on the main center link when using the QT link. I'm just throwing out my opinion based on my understanding of what it does. The QT link itself has not been around very long, so if a failed bushing (image posted above) would fail, it may be years to come. In any case, those main center links are easy to come by in the junkyards or new. Of course, I think poly filling it would be the right direction and VERY cheap to do.
Bent beams do happen, although rare. As mentioned above, there are also other issues (such as with bushings) which could cause the rear to not run straight or be measured as being "out of alignment". So it is important to verify any structural issues at the beginning.
I've not heard of anyone experiencing bushing failure on the main center link when using the QT link. I'm just throwing out my opinion based on my understanding of what it does. The QT link itself has not been around very long, so if a failed bushing (image posted above) would fail, it may be years to come. In any case, those main center links are easy to come by in the junkyards or new. Of course, I think poly filling it would be the right direction and VERY cheap to do.
09-16-2013, 09:32 PM
#28
I sit on 350Z 17" Rim staggered and I can tell that the rear passenger side has narrower fender gap. It rubs once in a while fully loaded.
I'm lowered on H-Tech about 1.7" front and 1" rear. I can't imagine slamming the car even lower that would shift the axle even more. Dynamically, this is not helping. Guys at B15 use Panhard Rod to replace the Scott Russel Link
I'm lowered on H-Tech about 1.7" front and 1" rear. I can't imagine slamming the car even lower that would shift the axle even more. Dynamically, this is not helping. Guys at B15 use Panhard Rod to replace the Scott Russel Link
Last edited by Genes1s; 09-16-2013 at 11:41 PM.
09-17-2013, 06:00 AM
#29
Left? Drivers side? Wow, takes a 20mm spacer to EVEN the two sides!? Holy cow! I'd be doing a thorough inspection of components. A complete rear beam from the junk yard will not break the bank - worst case scenario.
09-17-2013, 06:29 AM
#30
Just throwing this out there since it wasn't mentioned....how certain are you that the H&R's are properly installed? Spring is sitting properly on the lower perch and no issues with the mount up top? All the hardware went back together in the right fashion?
09-17-2013, 08:31 AM
#31
on my stocks wheels/tires I get away w/ much more even rear spacer combos. 23mm each side (17x7x40mm w stocks)
09-17-2013, 09:56 AM
#32
Okay, so the beam is NOT shifted left (drivers side), its shifted right (passenger side). Shifting to the right (passenger side) is the typical consequence of lowering.
Maybe that's where your confusion was, the side being discussed. The side of the car is always as if you were in the drivers seat.
Maybe that's where your confusion was, the side being discussed. The side of the car is always as if you were in the drivers seat.
09-17-2013, 01:33 PM
#35
05-07-2014, 03:02 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 50
Soo from the time i posted this to now, my rear tires are pretty warn on the inside. The driverside tire you can see the threads. On the passenger side its just worn down. Will the qt link fix this problem. Im pissed brand new yok's
05-07-2014, 05:15 PM
#38
You have talent if you did that with only H&R springs on the car.
A slight bit of mis information the rear beam can be adjusted slightly but untorquing the links so the bind on the bushings is released then re-torquing them a couple of the autoXers where doing that but it doesnt completely solve the problem of the beam being pushed to the passenger side, and in any case with the age of the car your bushing are probably shot to **** just replace them and it will fix the problem.
A slight bit of mis information the rear beam can be adjusted slightly but untorquing the links so the bind on the bushings is released then re-torquing them a couple of the autoXers where doing that but it doesnt completely solve the problem of the beam being pushed to the passenger side, and in any case with the age of the car your bushing are probably shot to **** just replace them and it will fix the problem.
05-08-2014, 11:25 AM
#39
No. The QT Link only shifts your rear axle to the side, it doesn't affect your camber which is the wear you are experiencing.
05-08-2014, 12:59 PM
#40
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,779
H&R's are such a slight drop that they will not affect alignment. Either the springs were installed improperly or the beam has become bent somehow. I am rocking H&Rs for the last 2 years on brutal Philly and NYC roads and my alignment isn't bad.