Difference between O2 Sim & Non-Fouler
11-04-2013, 05:24 PM
#1
Difference between O2 Sim & Non-Fouler
Looking for some clarification. As I am getting a shop to gut my 2 precats.
Between Roch's and Tuner's two threads it answered and confirmed all my other questions on these topics (headers & precats). thanks to you both and they are must reads.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...00-2003-a.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...while-car.html
thought about bumping them, but decided not too.
On to the question. What is the difference between installing an O2 Sim, and installing non-foulers?
From what I can tell a nonfouler is just a place to host an O2 Sensor regardless if it is an O2 sim or a regular O2 sensor?
At the end of the day, my newb question is what O2 sims and/or nonfoulers do I need prior to gutting both precats? (parts wise i know I should probably get gaskets and some bolts etc)
Also by putting all this work into the precats, is there any chance that I would actually need to do anything with them again after all of this? (thinking long term)
side note: if code p0051 = bank 2 sensor 1 upstream O2 (heater) Sensor is shot, would that possibly effect anything in regards to gutting the precats. In other words IIRC that sensor is on the front OEM exhaust manifold, and not the actual precat but since I am ordering parts I mind as well hit it all at once while I am in there.
Here's a pic depicting the Locations of the O2 Sensors for reference.
side note my intermittent code p0051 read bank 2 sensor 1, but according to that sticky pick my code should be Bank 1 sensor 1 ? what gives?
What I am thinking at 163k, if one bad the other is close. So if both front 2 O2 Sensors (upstream) are the ones that effect fuel economy (air fuel ratio), that they are worth replacing after 100k miles as a maintenance / peace of mind while I am in there.
PS. I thought about headers and I like my LTB Stage II more.
Thanks in advance!
Between Roch's and Tuner's two threads it answered and confirmed all my other questions on these topics (headers & precats). thanks to you both and they are must reads.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...00-2003-a.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...while-car.html
thought about bumping them, but decided not too.
On to the question. What is the difference between installing an O2 Sim, and installing non-foulers?
From what I can tell a nonfouler is just a place to host an O2 Sensor regardless if it is an O2 sim or a regular O2 sensor?
At the end of the day, my newb question is what O2 sims and/or nonfoulers do I need prior to gutting both precats? (parts wise i know I should probably get gaskets and some bolts etc)
Also by putting all this work into the precats, is there any chance that I would actually need to do anything with them again after all of this? (thinking long term)
side note: if code p0051 = bank 2 sensor 1 upstream O2 (heater) Sensor is shot, would that possibly effect anything in regards to gutting the precats. In other words IIRC that sensor is on the front OEM exhaust manifold, and not the actual precat but since I am ordering parts I mind as well hit it all at once while I am in there.
Here's a pic depicting the Locations of the O2 Sensors for reference.
side note my intermittent code p0051 read bank 2 sensor 1, but according to that sticky pick my code should be Bank 1 sensor 1 ? what gives?
What I am thinking at 163k, if one bad the other is close. So if both front 2 O2 Sensors (upstream) are the ones that effect fuel economy (air fuel ratio), that they are worth replacing after 100k miles as a maintenance / peace of mind while I am in there.
PS. I thought about headers and I like my LTB Stage II more.
Thanks in advance!
11-20-2013, 03:30 PM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
I'd also like to know the difference. I was able to install a spacer (non-fouler) on bank 1, but bank 2 is nearly impossible to get to, let alone have enough extra room for a spacer. it seems like an o2 simulator might be the easier solution....
11-20-2013, 04:53 PM
#4
when i had my 2002 max, i ran these o2 sims for years. car passed nys inpection everytime since there was no check engine light. the o2s were zip tied under the front valve cover. just gut the precats and wire this in, problem solved
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
11-20-2013, 06:34 PM
#5
A non-fouler (spacer) is just a spacer for the o2 sensors, what it does is it moves the sensor out of the exhaust pipe a little. They are like 5 bucks from any auto parts store.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
11-21-2013, 04:33 AM
#7
when i had my 2002 max, i ran these o2 sims for years. car passed nys inpection everytime since there was no check engine light. the o2s were zip tied under the front valve cover. just gut the precats and wire this in, problem solved
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
A non-fouler (spacer) is just a spacer for the o2 sensors, what it does is it moves the sensor out of the exhaust pipe a little. They are like 5 bucks from any auto parts store.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
11-21-2013, 10:56 AM
#8
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24
11-21-2013, 11:13 AM
#9
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico
Posts: 263
Replaced all the O2 sensors because the SES always pop up when I drove in Highway even before the installation of the "Y pipe". The Sensor #1 in both banks are installed as they must be, but the #2 sensors got spacers because the "Y pipe" was installed and I gutted the precat in Bank #2. No codes since then.
And yes, the space it's pretty tight and it's a PITA to install the no foulers, BUT it's possible in a 00 or 01 Maxima. I don't know if it can be done in the 02 and 03 Maximas.
11-22-2013, 03:58 AM
#11
11-22-2013, 04:59 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 411
I did this a couple of months ago. No regrets!
Replaced all the O2 sensors because the SES always pop up when I drove in Highway even before the installation of the "Y pipe". The Sensor #1 in both banks are installed as they must be, but the #2 sensors got spacers because the "Y pipe" was installed and I gutted the precat in Bank #2. No codes since then.
And yes, the space it's pretty tight and it's a PITA to install the no foulers, BUT it's possible in a 00 or 01 Maxima. I don't know if it can be done in the 02 and 03 Maximas.
Replaced all the O2 sensors because the SES always pop up when I drove in Highway even before the installation of the "Y pipe". The Sensor #1 in both banks are installed as they must be, but the #2 sensors got spacers because the "Y pipe" was installed and I gutted the precat in Bank #2. No codes since then.
And yes, the space it's pretty tight and it's a PITA to install the no foulers, BUT it's possible in a 00 or 01 Maxima. I don't know if it can be done in the 02 and 03 Maximas.
11-23-2013, 12:00 PM
#13
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 101
If by spacers you mean anti-foulers, yes they'll work on a 03.
I gutted my pre-cats about a year ago and have had no issues with the anti-foulers. Attached are some pics for you guys of the gutting procedure. I know some people recommend 90* anti-foulers for added effectiveness but depending on where the bend is, it's a tight space for our cars. I went with the straight one in the picture and have had no issues or codes after about 20,000+ miles.
After some digging of the rear (bank 1) pre-cat:
Rear (bank 1) pre-cat gutted:
Pre-cat material:
Anti-fouler installed for the secondary O2 sensor for the rear (bank 1). Note the tight space:
Front pre-cat removed from car. Don't mind the missing pre-cat material. I took the picture after picking at it. Most of it was intact but there was a lot of side to side movement. That is the secondary 02 sensor for the front (bank 2) side. Again, almost no room to screw on a 90* anti-fouler so I went with the straight one. Sorry no pic of the anti-fouler installed for the front but I used the same type as the rear bank:
I gutted my pre-cats about a year ago and have had no issues with the anti-foulers. Attached are some pics for you guys of the gutting procedure. I know some people recommend 90* anti-foulers for added effectiveness but depending on where the bend is, it's a tight space for our cars. I went with the straight one in the picture and have had no issues or codes after about 20,000+ miles.
After some digging of the rear (bank 1) pre-cat:
Rear (bank 1) pre-cat gutted:
Pre-cat material:
Anti-fouler installed for the secondary O2 sensor for the rear (bank 1). Note the tight space:
Front pre-cat removed from car. Don't mind the missing pre-cat material. I took the picture after picking at it. Most of it was intact but there was a lot of side to side movement. That is the secondary 02 sensor for the front (bank 2) side. Again, almost no room to screw on a 90* anti-fouler so I went with the straight one. Sorry no pic of the anti-fouler installed for the front but I used the same type as the rear bank:
11-24-2013, 12:17 PM
#15
merovi bought my car almost 2 years ago, and AFAIK the SIM is still functioning as expected. Although he had to have the flex section of that old Cattman Y-Pipe repaired. Not too bad for 5 years and five NE Winters.
11-25-2013, 05:09 AM
#17
03-05-2014, 06:08 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 973
03-05-2014, 06:24 AM
#19
I have used the o2simulators on my max before with no problems. Just a note to others, as of recently, o2 sim website is up and running, looks like they updated the simulator and the price went up too. Just FYI.
03-28-2015, 08:10 AM
#21
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
whats the difference between DUAL and SINGLE, and do I need to order 2 of the O2 sims since there are 2 precats with thier own O2's ??
whats the difference between DUAL and SINGLE, and do I need to order 2 of the O2 sims since there are 2 precats with thier own O2's ??
03-28-2015, 08:04 PM
#22
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_vi...?idProduct=769
whats the difference between DUAL and SINGLE, and do I need to order 2 of the O2 sims since there are 2 precats with thier own O2's ??
whats the difference between DUAL and SINGLE, and do I need to order 2 of the O2 sims since there are 2 precats with thier own O2's ??
Dual or single?
Dual is if you wanna sim two sensors or single if you wanna sim one....don't overcomplicate things....oversimplified is better...
03-30-2015, 05:54 AM
#25
i) BUY DUAL OUTPUT O2 SIMULATOR (http://www.o2simulator.com/universal...put-p-184.html)
ii) O2 SIMULATOR HAS CONNECTORS FOR BOTH O2 SENSORS TO IT
iii) WIRE EVERYTHING iN ENGINE BAY
IV) HIDE O2 SIMULATOR & 2 O2 SENSORS IN ENGINE BAY
Done!
03-30-2015, 12:30 PM
#27
A non-fouler (spacer) is just a spacer for the o2 sensors, what it does is it moves the sensor out of the exhaust pipe a little. They are like 5 bucks from any auto parts store.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
An o2 simulator is an electronic chip that simulated o2 sensor readings. It always reads good in order not to trip a code. Only thing is you can't just wire that in instead of the o2 sensor, you must keep the sensor plugged and only cut the signal output back to the ecu and wire in the o2 sim (sim also needs a power and ground). You do this to keep the heater circuit of the o2 sim, if you don't that will trip a code too.
03-31-2015, 05:15 AM
#29
06-13-2015, 07:35 PM
#32
Yes, O2 Sims only report to the ECU as functioning O2 sensors. They don't inhibit the ECU from functioning otherwise. Actually if you don't have secondary O2's and no simulators, your SES light will be on all the time and you won't be able to tell if another code is thrown without scanning all the time.
I went awhile with no O2's and no Sims to replace them and I always worried that something would go wrong without me knowing about it because that damn light was always on.
I went awhile with no O2's and no Sims to replace them and I always worried that something would go wrong without me knowing about it because that damn light was always on.
06-15-2015, 08:19 AM
#34
Man all the info that was posted yrs ago is still available as well as the few O2 simulator sites that still exist and explain all this...The way this thread started was sorta weird...But I guess ownership of the 5th Gen's age continue to decrease and they're mostly youngsters that were still in grade school when these cars were introduced so I guess they're just learning the same way we did 15 yrs ago...
06-16-2015, 04:39 AM
#35
Man all the info that was posted yrs ago is still available as well as the few O2 simulator sites that still exist and explain all this...The way this thread started was sorta weird...But I guess ownership of the 5th Gen's age continue to decrease and they're mostly youngsters that were still in grade school when these cars were introduced so I guess they're just learning the same way we did 15 yrs ago...
to any defense, i never cared about exhaust, never wanted to be loud and ricey, but have learned alot past cpl years, thanks to the org.
i just gutted the pre-cats last night.
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