Norm Peterson

The bond between the elastomer and one portion or the other of the crank pulley on our 20AE failed recently, allowing the outer pulley (driving the alternator and A/C) to move inward. This sawed through the PS belt, which is nowhere in sight except for a lot of rubber dust (only looking down from above so far). The alt/AC belt jumped off the pulley due to the amount of misalignment, but is still intact (edit #2, no, I'm not going to be re-using it).

Even without any of the belts in place, after prying the outer pulley portion outward the engine would start and run, a little rough at first but with no apparent wobble in the pulley. So it appears that the crank sensors were not damaged and I may only be in it for a new pulley, a couple of belts, and maybe the bolt. The crankshaft itself appears to be OK, nobody besides me has ever had either reason or opportunity to replace the belts or even work around the front of the engine, let alone have any cause to use the crank pulley as a temporary engine support.

Has anybody done this removal/replacement job themselves? Although I've assembled a number of engines in my time, I have a few questions.

Is the crank bolt a one-time use (torque to yield) fastener? The FSM provides a torque spec plus additional angle, which strongly suggests that this is the case, but it does not specifically state that they are TTY. I assume that with an assistant holding the brakes I will be able to loosen it with hand tools.

The outer pulley may have shifted rotationally, meaning that its TDC mark may no longer be reliable. However, the FSM appears to show that the pulley is keyed, and that a small amount of such shift may not matter given that the engine still runs. Can anybody confirm that this is the case?

I assume that this pulley is a light press fit and that I'll have to rig up some sort of installer rather than risk stripping the crank threads using the crank bolt to draw the pulley into place.


Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited to remove extra blank lines inserted by forum software
Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

You're massively overcomplicating this 15 min procedure.

1.) Remove pulley: Crank it for a split second with a breaker bar wedged on the ground b/c it can be so damn tight (can try impact). If that doesn't work you'll have to soak it in penetrating lube overnight.

2.) Replace front main seal

3.) Install new pulley (I use UDPs, anything but the obx). Put some sticky **** on the key to hold it in place. Make sure it doesn't slide out. Pulley slides into place easily. Hammer the **** out of it with a decent impact and put some thread locker on it if you're paranoid.

While you have the belt off you might as well replace the idler tension pulley.

Norm Peterson

Thanks for the tips. I'll hit it with some penetrant the day before I get into it (weather dependent, no room in garage). About the tensioner pulley, it hadn't crossed my mind to replace it.

One question - what is "obx"? Mainly curiosity, since the car tends to sit for a few days at a time and then drive short distances around town, so I can't spare any recharging capability.

Most of my engine building has involved small block Chevvies and Fords, with some Ford fours and V6's thrown in for good measure. It's not at all uncommon for newbies to engine building strip the crank threads on SBCs by using the bolt to draw the balancer on. I reworked a balancer puller to double as an installer.

Basically I'd rather anticipate too much or overestimate the difficulty of any job and have it turn out to be easier than expected . . . than to underestimate the job and get sandbagged with unexpected problems as I go. Time isn't a big issue, as I am an old retired guy and have two other cars with usually just one other driver.

Again, thanks.


Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

It's not a balancer. The pulley literally slides on by hand.

I mentioned aftermarket UDPs (lightweight aluminum) b/c they're cheap and free up some power. OBX makes crappy ones. Just use a stock one, since I bet you don't care about that stuff

Norm Peterson

Good to know. I certainly appreciate all this help.


Makes me wonder why the FSM tells you to use a "suitable puller" to remove it . . . then again that may be a good thing since I'm betting I could pull the alt/AC drive pulley off of the rest of it by hand.


Not yet, not for this 110,000 mile car that only gets occasional use, and I've got this ↓↓↓ for a dual-purpose DD & [road course] track toy . . . . . on the other hand, a lightweight flywheel is something I probably could get interested in.







Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, the accessory pulleys will fall off if you blow on them hard enough lol

eclivic

I just had the same thing happen to mine, I had to drop the oil pan and stuff an extension in between the bed plate and crankshaft to lock it in place...After that I had to use a torch to heat up the balancer bolt to break it free and yes you will need a 2 jaw puller to get it off.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

I've done multiple of these. Maybe on one I couldn't pull it off by hand and used a mallet to smack it a couple times...

Perhaps if you're in a rust belt it's different?

Norm Peterson

Thanks . . . rust belt probably does apply here in South Jersey for a car that was regularly driven every winter up until 2010-2011.


Side note - found sidewall cracks in both front tires while getting it in the driveway and up on stands to do this little job. Cost me a set of tires (4th set, Tire Rack) + mount & balance, and a good-weather afternoon running back and forth between the house and the shop.


Norm

Norm Peterson

Rust belt definitely applies. Ratchet with a cheater, cordless impact, and even my son-in-law's air impact @ 140 psi haven't broken it free yet, and I've hit it with some penetrant a couple of times.




Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Did you try the cranking method with the bar wedged on the ground? Starter is pretty powerful. Impact should do it, but worth a shot.

Norm Peterson

I don't have a long enough bar , and I don't trust the cheater to not slide further along the ratchet and let the whole thing "pop through" toward the half shaft.


Norm

CS_AR

I use the method shown in the following video to break the crankshaft pulley bolt loose.

Before using the method I remove the fuel pump fuse and run all of the gas out of the engine to keep the engine from starting when breaking the bolt loose. Also I keep the breaker bar away from the floor by 1 or 2 inches so the started will be able to get up enough momentum to break the bolt loose.

In the video you can see the bar had roughly an inch of free travel before the bolt was broken loose. I picked up the breaker bar from Harbor Freight for under $20 as I recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_6SFBg7_dg

.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Secure the breaker bar or cheater bar against the LCA.....and then bump the starter!!!! P.O.C.!!!!

Norm Peterson

"Piece of cake" ended up adding a fairly serious tool to my collection. Up to 700 ft-lbs, and it spun that bolt out like it was loose to begin with, before the tank had got anywhere near full pressure. Might have had 80 psi available at the gun, tops.


Everything's off except the crank seal, so the rest should be easy. Gonna cost me a crank sensor, but the tensioner pulley spins nice and quiet so I may just leave it alone. Only about 110,000 miles on it.






Norm

Norm Peterson

Well, I got the job done, and have finally gotten around to closing out this thread.


I had no idea how much trouble it was going to be to move the PS pump enough to get the belt to slide over its pulley - ended up prying it over the outer edge oh-so-gently. But after that everything went smoothly enough. Even having to drill out a broken pass side splash shield bolt and replace it with a through bolt, washer, lock washer, and nut was not much more than a minor nuisance (2 cordless drills, 2 dead-flat batteries, and a charger that said they were both fully charged . . . all happening right at that particular time . . . WTF????).


Not too surprising was having to clear a crankshaft position sensor code. Next up is getting the car through NJ inspection.


Thanks for the help.




Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

If you spin the tensioner pulley in your hand you can hear and feel how rough it is. The bearings are dry.

Norm Peterson

I specifically checked the tensioner pulley looking for roughness and found that it turned dead quiet and just as smoothly as if it was new. Did this on at least two separate occasions.




Norm

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Interesting. Even on lower mileage motors they were worn out when I encountered them. Maybe someone actual maintained it before you haha (which never seems to happen).

Norm Peterson

Heh . . . the car's original owner is me and we've had it for about 3 months longer than I've been a member here (all but maybe 25 miles). I've done nearly all of the maintenance, upgrade, & repair work on it myself.


Norm

Norm Peterson

Final chapter . . . got everything back together a week or so ago, drove it maybe 25 miles or so for OBD readiness purposes (crank sensor fault), and it passed inspection.


Norm