SEmaxima

We have a 2003 Nissan Maxima that was purchased new. The car is stock and unmodified. It now has approximately 120k miles on it. It has always had the oil changed on time with Mobile 1. The last year or so it has had a metallic rattle sound on start up. This is more noticeable in colder weather, and it doesn't always occur. The car usually has to be parked for a while. This is the only known problem. Most people don't even notice it.

Recently or about 2 oil changes ago, the 3.5 has developed an issue with oil consumption. It is somehow using about a quart in less than 1000 miles. There is no smoke or anything indicating that it is burning it, and the car does not leak? Does anyone know what is happening and what is causing this?

george__

iTrader: (1)

It's burning oil

Top it off every now and then
Check precats

http://bit.ly/1Gklteb

ateick

iTrader: (1)

A known problem for these engines. For more background just search this forum. Keep an eye on the level regularly and top up when needed.

2003MaximaMan

gut precats & install anti-foulers.

Upperhand

You could spend a week reading about oil consumption on this forum. Here are some of my thoughts/experiences. My '03 ripped though Mobil 1 as well then I started using Castrol and it slowed down. Your car is probably burning it. Look through your rearview mirror under wide open throttle, you'll likely see blue smoke and probably smell burning oil. If not maybe you're leaking it or it's spraying out when pressure builds in your case. Mine "burns" down to 1/3 the dipstick then stops. So that's where I leave it, 1/3 full. I have an oil cooler leak and seepage from my upper oil pan and probably my front and rear main seals. So I really believe it's some kind of case pressure issue, but have no proof.

What you're hearing is likely timing chain rattle. I had it also until I stopped topping it off (i.e. filling to full line). I don't have the rattle at 1/3 or so full, but as soon as I add even a little oil I get it. That boggles my mind. Oil goes from the front valve cover to the oil pan. Maybe the flooded valve cover causes excess pressure in the VTCS (Valve Timing Control Solenoid) and throws it off.

If you've never had a flashing SES you've probably never had a coil fail; therefore, there hasn't been raw gas being sucked through exhaust valves onto the pre-cat destroying it. If that's the case your pre-cat is probably fine and I would leave it alone. Our intake splits after the throttle body. So the air separates between front and back cylinders. The PCV gases and oil get sucked into the top section and burn only in the front three cylinders. So maybe that's why people find oil in the front cylinders but not back cylinders and assume it is because of a bad pre-cat. Not sure.

tnj9

Check your valve covers, pretty sure mine are gone and need replacing real soon.

mclasser

Like others said, you're burning oil. Good tips from the above poster about also checking for valve cover leaks and a clogged PCV valve.

What weight oil are you using now? Try switching to a high mileage oil like Valvoline MaxLife to see if that slows consumption. If not, many on here advocate moving over to 10W40. That seems to especially help with the timing chain rattling.

Maxgig

iTrader: (5)

SEMax, I had an 03 SE 6 speed that had the rattle too, you're definitely burning oil but the amount is so small. My car went thru .5 to 1 qt every 1200 to 1500 miles. (Castrol 5w30 high mileage) I changed my oil every 4500 miles.

I had the 04 cylinder head swap done and replaced the #6 sparkplug down tube lining because it was filling up with oil. As for my rattle, it was most noticeable on hills and under hard acceleration. I simply got into the habit of checking my oil level every month or when I heard the chain rattle.

I never saw smoke out the rear and my symptoms never got worse. I drove the car under those conditions for 3 yrs until I traded it. At that time it had 136k miles on it.

SEmaxima

How do you check the pre cats? Do you mean remove and inspect them? That link doesn't work.

I'm starting to think that if this many of these engines have this problem, why wasn't there a recall? If its going to continue to use this much oil, we may have to let it go. I really like the car, but this isn't really what I call acceptable.

Wouldn't gutting the cats cause a CEL? What are anti-foulers?

tnj9

My car always burned oil, valve covers failed relatively recently as car aged (164500mi) its gonna cost me 700 to repair mostly in labor from a close friend whos a mechanic, front and rear leaking badly. Rear worse, dealer quote was 1800, obviously going with 6 gen covers but even after all this its still gonna burn oil, it just wont leak down the friggin sides of the block... Im angry given I take such care of it using expensive and high quality high mileage oil for years and changing oil and filter every 2-3k and adding oil when needed in addition to maintenence and money spent on other parts of the car. Beginning to feel like a money pit

SEmaxima

About a month ago the SES did flash and the car started running badly. It was only driven 2-3 miles like this and was immediately parked. We had a coil fail.

I've only seen it smoke twice under acceleration (had to really get on it) and couldn't tell what color it was.

My first thought was that the noise was a timing chain rattle.

I inspected the breather tube that goes to the air intake tube. It was clean and dry.

The PCV valve was replaced about a year ago.

The valve covers were replaced not too long ago.

It has 10w30 Mobile 1 High Mileage in it. We've been using that for quite a few years.

tnj9

In that case it's general oil consumption that can only be repaired through extensive engine overhaul/replacement. It's just an engineering flaw with our engines, mine has burned oil since as long as I can remember, but the leaking is new which has increased oil loss obviously and is why I'm mad. When it's fixed it's still going to burn oil just like yours...

george__

iTrader: (1)

I honestly think the pre-cat idea is a myth... Just check the engine oil every second oil change and top off when needed.

VQ35DE are known to burn oils with all Nissan products using it reporting the issue

SEmaxima

When the car was purchased new, we figured and planned on it going for at least 200k miles. I would never have guessed than a modern engine would not be capable of doing that. This is very disappointing.

I have never heard of any vehicle having an issue like this pre cat myth. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it sure seems strange to me. Although I'm not a mechanic, I've been working on cars for 20 years, but mostly older stuff.

If this engine has such a bad reputation for this issue, why won't Nissan step up and do something about it?

george__

iTrader: (1)

It's not a bad engine and tons of members here are near or past that 200k mark.

Google "VQ35DE OIL BURNING"

Just engine "flaw"??? No different than any other company out there

tnj9

A major engine flaw costs over a thousand dollars to repair, multiply that by the thousands and thousands of affected VQ35DEs on the road and you have guaranteed multimillion dollar losses to Nissan. Cheaper to ignore it. This is no airbag recall they can just blame the manufacturer at fault and have the dealers pop a new one in, its their engine.

george__

iTrader: (1)

^
It's not severe enough to kill enough people... I.e. they can ignore it and not face a GM ignition switch f8k up

Balancing LABILITY vs PROFIT

SEmaxima

If an engine can't make it to 200k miles with regular maintenance, then I'd say its not a very good engine. We've had several vehicles cars, trucks, station wagons, mini vans etc. They all seemed to be able to make it to 200k-250k miles with out burning oil.

I know its not safety issue, but a motor is a pretty big deal. Its not like its the radio or the AC system or something.

We have always loved this car, but it may be our last Nissan vehicle. I'm still hoping this is something simple.

ateick

iTrader: (1)

It is a great engine but it is plagued by this one problem. It's not the only engine to have problems though. At least its not GM head gasket problems or crank seal leaks - things that require big $ to fix. If you put it in perspective you are looking for another 80k miles out of the car. If you have to top up a quart every 1k miles you are looking at another say $320 in cost of ownership over that 80k. Not fun to have to do but not financially crippling.

talkinghorse

iTrader: (121)

I can't explain the suddenness of your oil consumption issue, but try a thicker oil as others have recommended.

In addition to several Nissans, we also have a Subaru with the 3.6 and it has consumed what I consider to be an excessive amount of oil since it was new...maybe a quart every 1500 miles and I use a premium synthetic in it. Switching from the recommended 5w-30 to 10w-30 made no difference. Last year I went to synthetic 10w-40 and it essentially cut my oil consumption in half.

Give it a try and see if it makes any difference. Certain years of the 3.5's are worse than others for oil consumption.

Mateen995

This whole oil-burning thing is being blown out of proportion
If any of you guys have read the manual it fully states that some oil consumption between changes is normal operation... even my CR-V's manual states the same exact thing
The only time I would consider it a flaw is if you were burning excessive amounts between small intervals

The newer VQ's are much better than the ones in our 5.5 which could be to blamed on the fact the engine was in it's first couple years of production but now Infiniti might start sourcing MB engines mainly on a performance front to start using forced induction and increasing fuel economy, not sure if its a joint-operation engine or an engine fully developed by MB

ateick

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's blown out of proportion at all. I would consider consuming 1 quart every 1000 miles excessive. If someone didn't check their engine and went the recommended 3000 mile interval they would be down to around 1.4 quarts of oil remaining out of 4.4. That is excessive.

Mateen995

I admit 1 quart per 1000 miles is excessive but keep in mind how old our engines are

but you're supposed to check your oil-level time to time for oil burning and top-off as needed which is what the manual states

this is how some Maxima's get beaten to ****

ateick

iTrader: (1)

Not to beat a dead horse but this burning has been going on for years before our cars were "old". Yes you are supposed to check your oil level every now and then but realistically a very very small percentage of the population does. The other 99% drive it usually way past the recommended interval and never check it. If you're unlucky and are driving a real burner then your issues compound because you aren't replenishing what you've lost.

I completely agree it should be a recall but some actuary at Nissan has done the math and the cost far outweighs the benefits for them. An all too familiar story when it comes to the automotive industry.

tnj9

Hey its not as bad as my 99 Outback, headgasket blew at 110,000 and sold it for parts.

mclasser

It's a bummer that you're engine's consuming oil like this. I agree that a modern engine should easily make it to 200K miles without major issue. Makes me worried about what the future has in store for my I35. It's not using any oil yet.

Straight out of the owner's manual: "It is normal to add some oil between maintenance intervals." Seems like Nissan knew from the get-go these engines would use oil lol

Try running a 10W40 and see how that works.

Mateen995

Just keep up-to-date with your maintenance, the oil-burning issue is not as bad as the REV-UP VQ's in the G35 which happens to almost everyone
& obviously they knew cause they test the **** out of these engines in development, pretty sure they knew about the timing chain rattle issue as well but they probably hoped people would buy new Nissan's once that time came

SEmaxima

This alone is not a financial issue. What's to say it won't get worse? It shouldn't be smoking at all.

Using a quart per oil change might be acceptable to me.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I'll stop you right there. My 95 Maxima just turned 20 years old last month, and it doesn't burn any oil. Also has 250,000 miles.

if that's the case, I'd suggest an engine swap from an 09. That engine doesn't burn oil and it has a lot more power.

tnj9

Difference between VQ30 and VQ35, the 2000-2003 were what I like to think as the "experimental" 3.5L that became much more refined and went on to win all the awards we hear about. The late 90s maxs had the more refined 3.0L which didnt have nearly as prevalent oil burning issues.

Mateen995

I was just referring to the people who have oil burning issues, my 03 doesn't burn any oil at all and my old 95 didn't either

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

2000 and 2001 didn't have the 3.5L, so there goes that though. The VQ35 has been in use since 01 (Pathfinder). And the oil consumption got worse with the rev-up (even more refined versions than the “experimental original mass produced VQ35DE”). My VQ30 in my 95 is just as bit of strong as any other VQ30's of even the 00-01's, sans the IM, but the cams are slightly more aggressive (exhaust) in the 95-99, and it’s reliability in the mass produced version is unprecedented, even considering it was in the first model year.

My thought is more vague than yours in that when Nissan began using this engine in anything and everything in their line-up and perhaps began cheeping out on stuff. Because keep in mind, the Maxima was the sole vehicle that had the VQ in the states from 95-00.

Mateen995

I think the reliability & build quality difference between the VQ30 & VQ35 is partially on the fault of Renault-Nissan partnership found itself cutting costs in production because of how poorly in financial terms Nissan was doing throughout the 90's

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Nissan was doing very well in the early and mid 90's, not sure about late 90's since I have no knowledge, but just look at the 3rd gen and how ahead of it's time it was.

Mateen995

The 3rd generation was a real gem & the different trans modes were pretty neat. But if you think about Infiniti was new back then & didn't really offer a sporty offering until the i30 I guess with the 5spd. If Nissan invested that much into the current maxima there wouldn't be much of a differentiator for the G/Q50 other than the fact the maxima is FWD

tnj9

Right, slip up on my part, 3.5 wasnt introduced until 5.5 2002-2003 hence why it was "experimental" then. My 03 has been absolutely babied and meticulously maintained, yet burns 1qt/1000mi valve covers failed in both front and rear and as we speak is going in for replacement. Putting 6th gen on as they're better sealed and fit the same.

The 4AT is pretty bad too in my GLE. Not an aggressive driver, no street racing, no takeoff at red lights to green like a jerk, very rarely floor it, just once in a blue moon to hear her purr. Fluid is frequently inspected and flushed and refilled when appropriate, yet its now begun to have a problem where it doesnt shift into 4th when the engine is cold on very cold days. Luckily its spring now and it only happened a few times this past winter, but i know whats coming...

Mateen995

shift into 4th or do you mean overdrive? during the cold winter days mine wouldn't go into overdrive for like 10-15 minutes

the 4AT is kind of a lame tranny unless you get an HD2 kit
grinds my gears when the car shifts mid-turn

george__

iTrader: (1)

Trust me you don't want a HD2 kit in your DD

tnj9

4th, it was hung in 3rd revving med- high at 30-40 mph speeds.

Mateen995

Don't you have one in yours? Why did you put one in the first place?