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Old 04-22-2009, 07:39 AM   #1
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Short but Loud Rattling noise after startup after a week standstill

Folks,

I have been discussing my problem in various "engine noise" threads, but I think I got something unique going on here.

When (and only when) I leave my 04 Max (~81K miles) stand for a week or longer, and I start it up for the first time, I hear a very sharp metal-like rattling noise that lasts for 1 to 2 seconds. Sometimes the engine shudders too in that brief period.

Subsequent starts don't have this behavior anymore, unless I let it stand for a week or longer and start it up again. I can reproduce this with 100% certainty.

One of such reproductions has been posted on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05yBcOoHOvA

In this youtube footage, the car starts up after having it stood still for nearly two weeks.

I took my Max to the Nissan dealer, with the exact precise description as above, but those folks just don't follow directions; they start it day after day, and thus it never gets to sit still for a week. Finally they let it stand for a week, but they "don't hear the noise"...

I told them to look at my youtube link first, if not for "evidence" (a healthy dose of skepticism is always good), at least for direction as knowing what to listen for is already half the battle, but they "can't access youtube". So then I ask them whether they have a DVD player so I can cut a DVD for them to watch, but "they don't have a DVD player"... they literally go out of their way to make things difficult - it's so frustrating! So I told the guy that I'll come in with my laptop and a good headset so at least they know what to listen too but I am afraid that they'll find another excuse to discard it.

All I want is for Nissan to acknowledge for the record that they heard the noise and either tell me "its fine" or it needs to go in surgery right away.

Why is that so hard?

If anyone has any suggestions on how to achieve this, I am all open ears.

Thanks

G

Last edited by Galto2000; 04-22-2009 at 07:41 AM..
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:13 PM   #2
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I think bringing in your laptop is a good idea. I just listened to it on my laptop without headphones and heard it plain as day.

I am certainly no mechanic but it sounds like after sitting a while all the oil gets off the moving parts and it takes a second or two to get everything lubricated. Maybe try going to synthetic oil??

I saw on You Tube someone said the timing chains. I had the timing chain problem and it sounded nothing like that. Plus, the timing chain sound is not something that goes away after a few seconds.

Good luck, hopefully someone can help you out.

Randy
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:36 PM   #3
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Galto2000, I remember you having this problem and I have seen your video before from another thread. I do not know the fix but I do have some sort of similar tapping noise. It does not appears when car is cold and sitting for a day or week. In my case if car is hot enough and then if I park for about 15 minutes or more (so that engine become warm from hot) and then if I start my car, I hear loud tapping noise but disappear after driving about half a mile. lets say instead of I drive about half a mile if I just rev my car on spot then that tapping noise does not disappear but stays the same. If I let the car parked for hours so that engine become cold then there is no loud tapping noise. However this does not happens always but it does happen 70 to 80% of the time.

Normal tapping noise (but not loud tapping noise as I mentioned in above case) is always been there. Just like diesel engine noise.

Car has been on mobil1 synthetic from long time with mobil1 filter. Tried 5W-40 & 10W-40 oils but no results. Always used 92+ octane gas and tried several gas stations. Seaform helped for rough idle (and also cleaned engine gunk) but not tapping noise, behavior is the same before and after seaform treatment. Fuel dampers has been replaced. Treated gas fuel injector cleaning treatment many times. Oil do not burn and come out almost the same amount after 3k oil change interval. No oil leaks anywhere at all.

This may sound like oil is not reaching on the top for a while, OK then what/who is blocking oil to reach the top? After changing oil and driving 1000 miles my oil looks damn clean means engine is damn clean inside.

I do not think I have exhaust leak but never know (as when engine is hot then metal expands and blocks leakage but shrinks when engine is warm, but only half a mile drive and it stops? hard to believe.) I also am on stock spark plugs and suspensions. Engine mounts has been checked and seems to be in good shape.

If anyone know anything, please shoot here.

But please help Galto2000 first as he started this thread for some help.

...

Last edited by Sarara; 04-22-2009 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:06 PM   #4
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Timing chain??
Nissan is known for the timing vchain rattle on start up.
Does the engine perform the way it should, once it is running?
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBlackMaxSL View Post
Timing chain??
Nissan is known for the timing vchain rattle on start up.
Does the engine perform the way it should, once it is running?
Yeah I think the engine performs the way it should, even after this "long-stand-still-initial-startup-rattle".

Having said that, on some occasions during the "long-stand-still-initial-startup-rattle", the engine shudders for a few seconds as if it's about to choke or stall, but then it picks up and gets into it's ussual idle (it did not do that on the youtube footage btw).
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyZ View Post

I saw on You Tube someone said the timing chains. I had the timing chain problem and it sounded nothing like that. Plus, the timing chain sound is not something that goes away after a few seconds.

Randy
Mea Culpa: that comment was me. I was misinformed then after reading post of people with similar but not the same engine noise problems.

That is what my mechanic also told me, that if it were the timing chain, it would be happening all the time. That's also the reason I put this issue in its own thread because I couldn't find any posts that discussed this particular noise.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:34 AM   #7
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I am certainly no mechanic but it sounds like after sitting a while all the oil gets off the moving parts and it takes a second or two to get everything lubricated.
The first times I had this "long-stand-still-initial-startup-rattle" I was thinking the same: "Must be the oil that sank to the pan during the period of stand still". Typically I would come back from some travelling, which only happens ones or twice per year.

But when the gasprices went through the roof some 9 months ago, I have been driving an old '95 Toyota Corolla and alternating it with driving my Max to work: one week I would drive the toyota, the other the Max. Then ofcourse I got reminded of this problem every other week and thus started digging in the forums here and reading all kinds of horror stories, so I got worried.... maybe for nothing.

So say it is what we think it is: thus after the long stand still, the oil seeps down and the lube doesn't get to the upper parts of the engine until it starts up again. Is this harmful in any way, since in effect some parts run - albeit only a few seconds - without lubrication?
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:08 AM   #8
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start up noise

I to have the same noise when starting a cold engine. Mine does it every morning,but never shudders as ya say. I was told to change to other brand of oil filter, so I have tryed 3,Fram ( which I never liked anyway),mobil and now purolator. No difference,still makes the sound,Im sure it is the timing chain rattling at its joints or hinges,until the oil hits it and quiets them. I wondered if anyone else had this issue,the car runs flawlessly and only makes sound like ya said 1 to 2 seconds.If ya multiply that 2 seconds times how many times ya will start that engine it adds up to a lot of metal grinding. Maybe the area where the oil comes thru to timing chains can get somewhat plugged up or restricted preventing oil from reacning it as soon? maxman7
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:38 AM   #9
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timing chain noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galto2000 View Post
Mea Culpa: that comment was me. I was misinformed then after reading post of people with similar but not the same engine noise problems.

That is what my mechanic also told me, that if it were the timing chain, it would be happening all the time. That's also the reason I put this issue in its own thread because I couldn't find any posts that discussed this particular noise.
No offense but I would say You had a timing chain tensioner issue. I have not heard anyone having a timing chain failure(broke or sheered chain)yet. What many people have is the tensioners made of plastic rub thru to metal and start grinding,the more rpm the louder noise gets. As for the chains I have heard they are notoriously noisy, thats why other companies went to belts years ago. However the belts require replacement every 60,000 to 90,000 miles at a cost of around $300.oo, thats why I started looking for a maxima to start with,I liked the fact that they had chains and didnt need replaced. I should have read some forums because this tensioner issue is common among 04-06 maxima and requires pulling the engine to fix.I have the same start up noise as the gentleman that started this thread,and I worry if it is signs of things to come.maxman7
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:36 AM   #10
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years ago, i owned a 93 Lincoln Mark 8 with the 4.6 motor. it had pretty low miles and was as quiet as it should be. suddenly, out of no-where, initial start up would cause a STRANGE motor noise.... it wasnt a knock, but it surely wasnt a tap either. like you- it would only make the noise after sitting for a bit (not weeks, but more like a day)

LUCKILY for me, i bought the 'red carpet' warranty and took it to a dealer.

the cause of the problem was the timing chain tensioners being bad causing the 'slap' noise.

id be willing to bet your noise is timing chain related.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:24 AM   #11
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So has anyone figured out what makes the car makes this noise for 2 seconds on initial start up. It seems to be proven that its not the tensioner that does this for only 2 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galto2000 View Post
The first times I had this "long-stand-still-initial-startup-rattle" I was thinking the same: "Must be the oil that sank to the pan during the period of stand still". Typically I would come back from some travelling, which only happens ones or twice per year.

But when the gasprices went through the roof some 9 months ago, I have been driving an old '95 Toyota Corolla and alternating it with driving my Max to work: one week I would drive the toyota, the other the Max. Then ofcourse I got reminded of this problem every other week and thus started digging in the forums here and reading all kinds of horror stories, so I got worried.... maybe for nothing.

So say it is what we think it is: thus after the long stand still, the oil seeps down and the lube doesn't get to the upper parts of the engine until it starts up again. Is this harmful in any way, since in effect some parts run - albeit only a few seconds - without lubrication?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:44 AM   #12
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deffinatley sounds like valve chatter as i told another person nissans are notorious for that when oil sits and goes towards bottom of engine or if you are loosing oil. my 97 did it due to a blown oil pan gasket. try some stabalizer lucas is good and that should help alot. but do an oil change and check that all of your bolts on oil pan is tight, oil filter and even the plug.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:21 AM   #13
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its only been 900 miles and 1 month since my last oil change. I checked the fluids and it looks good still. I just notice though that the power stearing fluid is low. I need to go buy some and put it in. I have 23,000 miles 2008 i want to definitly make sure this 2 second sound aint harmfull. The dealer wouldnt be able to hear this sound because it only happens in the morning in low temps.
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deffinatley sounds like valve chatter as i told another person nissans are notorious for that when oil sits and goes towards bottom of engine or if you are loosing oil. my 97 did it due to a blown oil pan gasket. try some stabalizer lucas is good and that should help alot. but do an oil change and check that all of your bolts on oil pan is tight, oil filter and even the plug.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galto2000 View Post
G
I have an 04 166k stock motor except for CAI, and it started doing this around 100k miles, its started up exactly like yours on the vid on hot summer days and winter. It only seems to do it after i let the car sit all night or if the motor is cold and the temp hand sits on C. I've tried everything from lucas to marvel mystery oil in which some threads suggested but no luck. I personally think its some wear on the valves. I have even switched to synthetic oil and it still does the same crap! I just think that the wear is getting to the motor and these are the first signs to engine failure in the long run, This will be my first and last nissan.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallblazer124 View Post
So has anyone figured out what makes the car makes this noise for 2 seconds on initial start up. It seems to be proven that its not the tensioner that does this for only 2 seconds.
I dont know if this is in my mind but this was happening to me just like the person who originally started the thread where it would make this sound for about 2-5 seconds on a cold start up. My problem seem to be fixed. My power stearing fluid was low and after adding power stearing fluid to it The last 2 days i have not heard the sound. I will keep monitoring it because i dont see how the two can connect but so far so good.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:17 AM   #16
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No more noise. This specific noise seem to occur when the power stearing fluid is low. I dont see the connection but since i added it i have not herd the noise again.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:52 AM   #17
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No more noise. This specific noise seem to occur when the power stearing fluid is low. I dont see the connection but since i added it i have not herd the noise again.
Really ? My car does the same while starting up every monring. Only 2-3 secs of chattering. But what I have noticed, If I put it in Drive or Reverse the noise immediately vanishes . If I do it quickly, from P to D, noise gone..then again back to P, little noise and then started to fade away.

While driving, I do not hear any noise at all.No impact on the power-performance of the car.

I am using Amsoil 0w-30. Changed my Engine Oil Filter to Nissan from Amsoil just to troubleshoot the start up noise. but no luck.

5-6 months ago, I changed my Power Steering fluid to Royal Purple. I think this noise also started coming since last 2-3 months back,no major changes since then.

Was your fluid much below than MIN level ? Mine is lower than MAX but not below MIN level. I still have half bottle of Royal Purple, would try tomorrow after topping it off.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBlackMaxSL View Post
Timing chain??
Nissan is known for the timing vchain rattle on start up.
Does the engine perform the way it should, once it is running?
Primary Timing chain tensioner is oil driven. Had similar noise that was very intermittent. Got worse over time and turns out my primary chain was stretched and tensioner was all the way out. Could be tensioner taking time to adjust and fill with oil. If you get the front plate pulled off look for the marks towards bottom of plate towards the front. Thats where mine was making contact.
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ifti_sit View Post
Really ? My car does the same while starting up every monring. Only 2-3 secs of chattering. But what I have noticed, If I put it in Drive or Reverse the noise immediately vanishes . If I do it quickly, from P to D, noise gone..then again back to P, little noise and then started to fade away.

While driving, I do not hear any noise at all.No impact on the power-performance of the car.

I am using Amsoil 0w-30. Changed my Engine Oil Filter to Nissan from Amsoil just to troubleshoot the start up noise. but no luck.

5-6 months ago, I changed my Power Steering fluid to Royal Purple. I think this noise also started coming since last 2-3 months back,no major changes since then.

Was your fluid much below than MIN level ? Mine is lower than MAX but not below MIN level. I still have half bottle of Royal Purple, would try tomorrow after topping it off.
anyone ?

Yesterday I was stuck with 5th gear and car jerk from shifting R to D.
Got the error code : P0340. Camshaft Sensor. It happened only once. Took that to the dealer and they told me it could be even my timing chain. Timing chain may get stretched enough and produce false reading for cam shaft sensor ..does that sound reasonable ?
they quoted me $1200 for timing chain. but trust me, I get the ticking/rattling noise only during start up. after few miles of driving ( infact 2/3 miles ), it vanishes. And I am living with this since last 1 year. No power loss or MPG loss. I still get above 28 MPG ( sometime 30 ) in freeways depending on the load.
Anyways, I replaced both of the sensors. Bank 1 was totally filled with oil.
So far car is running smooth.
But the initial rattle is still there.Dont know what to do. Get rid of this car or repair that from a local mechanic for less than $1000.
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:23 PM
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