Max2013

This is interesting... Had never heard this story before... True?


2016 Nissan Maxima Slated For Execution Four Years Earlier

Though the 2016 Nissan Maxima will make its showroom debut June 2, there was a time when the Maxima was slated to meet the guillotine.

As the auto industry was still feeling its way out of the Great Recession in early 2012, Nissan vice president of North American product planning Peter Loing said while most believed it was all but certain a new Maxima would come, “the foregone conclusion at that moment was that there would not be another Maxima,” Automotive News reports.

Loing took his current position in January 2012, where his first task was to make the case for a car whose fan base was almost entirely in the United States before an automaker who preferred global platforms to minimize costs.

Loing’s case hinged on the longevity of the Maxima name — having been on the marketplace without a break since 1981 — thus garnering a multigenerational consumer base who knows the nameplate better than Nissan’s own name. The model’s marketing boss, Eric Ledieu, added the Maxima also did well in pulling in consumers close to making the jump toward luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes.

When Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn greenlit the eight-gen Maxima back then, Nissan North America vice president for vehicle engineering and Maxima program boss Takeshi Yamaguchi opted to dial the styling up while also boosting its luxury appeal and enhancing performance. Yamaguchi said he was proud of the results, not only of the fact the Maxima went “beyond where it was” instead of going more conservative, but the fact it was given another chance to see the sun rise.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...years-earlier/

lightonthehill

After reading every comment following that article, I must say that every single one is obviously based on either information from the past or on misinformation. Some are so wrong as to actually be funny.

It takes a certain kind of person to publically criticize a vehicle they have not only not bothered to check the specs on, but have not yet seen any driving tests on, and have not even seen one in person, much less driven one.

I hope I never close my mind that tightly. Life can't be much fun for those type folks.

Max2013

I agree. Those who compare the 7th or 8th gen Maxima to an Altima (no matter how it is equipped) are especially misinformed and obviously have never driven both vehicles. There is no comparison. I'm just glad the Max wasn't 'executed' because I would never buy another Altima...

lightonthehill

To be truthful, had the Maxima been axed, I would have simply kept my wonderful, beautiful troublefree 2009 and rode it till the wheels fell off. That would have been awhile, because I have already driven two different Maximas over 200,000 miles each, and had no real trouble with lots of other Maximas.

NissanFreak2000

It would have been stupid for them to axe the Maxima. They need to continue to separate the Maxima from the Altima, not axe it!

theWalkinator

Well, the way I see it, Altima is competing directly with Camry and Accord in mid size family sedan segment in terms of size, performance and price point. Unlike Hyundai, Genesis is created to be the luxury line of Hyundai so Genesis is not competing with Sonata, but Nissan already has Infiniti brand, Maxima is sitting in between Altima and Infiniti line, so Maxima is not competing with any other mid size family sedan but Nissan's own Altima and Infiniti Q series sedan. 2014 combined US sales figure of Altima (335,644) and Maxima (50,401) roughly equals to Accord's sales figure (388,374) but Nissan has to maintain 2 models, I just don't understand Nissan's product and marking strategy but to me, dropping Maxima seems to be a more logical choice.

lightonthehill

I don't think you quite understand the relationship between Maxima and Altima.

Altima is a midrange ($20K to $32K) family sedan that is not upscale in any part of its construction or quality of its parts. It is good transportation. Nissan wants to sell as many Altimas as possible, because that is a proven product that they know will sell because of its price level. It competes directly with the Camry and Accord and those type sedans. Drivers who are looking just for transportation, and care less if there are 100,000,000 other cars that look exactly like their car parking right next to them, should absolutely buy the Altima.

Maxima is a near-luxury ($32K to $40K) sporty family sedan that is constructed on a higher level using higher quality parts than the Altima. The interior of the 2016 Maxima is absolutely worlds better in looks and quality than the Altima. Ghosn said over ten years ago that the Maxima was being moved upscale, would be near-luxury, would be Nissan's flagship, and would not be a high-volume production vehicle. It is intended for those folks who want something that is built using better quality construction and parts than the Altima. They want something that is not exactly like half the cars in the parking lot. They want something that is fun to drive.

Anyone who has driven both the Altima and the Maxima and does not find the Maxima a more enjoyable car to drive is simply using their car for transportation. For me, I want more from my car than getting from point A to point B. The Maxima certainly gives me more than the Altima is every way that matters for me.

Put another way, there are probably between one and two DOZEN sedans that are closer to competing with the Altima than the Maxima does. The Altima is in an entirely different price range than the Maxima. Price range is very important in classifying and comparing family sedans.

theWalkinator

I got exactly what you are saying and understand perfectly where Maxima's position in Nissan's lineup, that being said, it cost a lot more for Nissan to keep and maintain a car with such small number of sales, and Nissan has to heavily discount the price to move it out of dealers' lots, it just does not make economic sense.

You can argue left and right that so called "near luxury" vehicle ideal works for Nissan but the reality is, at $40K price point, consumers have a lot more and better choices, in addition, Maxima has long lost it is original 4DSC trait, heavy, floaty, soft, under powered, it is no more fun to drive a Maxima than to drive an Altima, and definitely a lot less fun than the RWD Infiniti, oh, not to mention that CVT.

Mick7

"You can argue left and right that so called "near luxury" vehicle ideal works for Nissan but the reality is, at $40K price point, consumers have a lot more and better choices"

Very few pay the 40k price. When I buy the cloth seat model (because we can't handle leather seating), it will be less than 29k in a few months. Find just one other car that offers the blend of ride, power, handling and amenities for that price. There are none.

NissLover

You're kinda off in your thinking (totally not saying that in a rude way... literally took a couple of seconds to figure out how I could word that...)... But the Maxima is a high profit car for Nissan because of the fact that it's based on the same platform as the Altima and basically share the V6 and CVT. Because of that fact they can afford to up the interior quality, feature content and a little more investment in the performance. But even with that extra R&D they still don't spend as much to develop it as they did the Altima. Nissan is actually very happy with the Maximas sales numbers. 50k+ really isn't considered "low volume" and I don't really think it costs them that much to keep it in the lineup.

Like they said, the Max has WAY too much brand recognition for them to kill it and rakes in too much profit, even with incentives.

And I'm sorry... event with a CVT... any modern Maxima is a much better performing car than any Maxima of the past simply based on the progress of cars in general... and since when is 300hp "underpowered" and 0-60 in 5.8 secs slow (last gen).

lightonthehill

Before we take this any further, we need to accept that the 50K sales numbers in 2014 are for a car designed in 2006, which Nissan began building in January of 2008, and which does not have any of the modern electronic safety systems. It also got no advertising support. Most dealers kept few on their lots.

Remember that the 6th gen 2004 Maxima, although a far cry from a '4DSC', sold over 132,000 in its first year. The recession changed a lot of things in the car world, and hurt non-econo boxes like the Maxima. I am absolutely positive that this 8th gen Maxima will easily cruise right on by the 50K number. Those who have driven it are universally saying very nice things about it. Dealers are preordering far more 2016 Maximas right now than they ordered of any model year of the Maxima since before the recession began.

I would urge everyone to drop by their dealer when these cars arrive and at least sit in the driver's seat. One knows immediately that he is in a different world than the Altima.

Max2013

I understand the "more choices" comment, but can you name a few of the many "better" choices you are referring to at the Maxima price point? Seriously, I am very interested in what I should have considered before buying... And should consider before buying in the future at this same price. .??

You also state that the Maxima drives like an Altima. That is an amazing statement. I have owned and driven many thousands of miles in both the Maxima and the 3.5 Altima. Sorry, but in my opinion there is absolutely no comparison in any driving situation. None. Have you actually driven both vehicles for any extended period of time?

lightonthehill

Another factor not being made clear here is that between 85% and 90% of Altimas sold are the 2.5 engine, which is not even remotely close to being in the class or performance window of the Maxima. The reality is that there are more Maximas sold than there are 3.5 Altimas, which are nudging into the Maxima's price range. Why not just do away with the 3.5 Altima?

Oh, wait. I think I have been hearing this past year that there may actually be plans in place to do away with the 3.5 Altima. Makes sense to me. That would force that great group of folks who always see the Altima and Maxima as similar to find other windmills at which to tilt.

NissanFreak2000

The Altima should have never been offered with the V6 engine. I have also heard that the V6 is going away in the Altima, which I think is the right move to make!

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Nissan was just keeping up with the market and Altimas competitors at the time. The Altima was actually kinda slow at adapting the V6 to the Altima; Accord (95), Camry (87), Galant (99) all had the V6 long before the then new 2002 Altima. We shall see soon what new engines Nissan will be coming up with for the Maxima as the 3.5 will be replaced in this upcoming Maxima by more than likely by a smaller displacement Turbo motor. I can't wait to see how the upcoming 3.0TT is going to perform in the Q50/Q60.

R1600Turbo

I bet this shows up in the new Z as well.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Yes more than likely!

lightonthehill

MONTE - With the information you gave us several weeks ago (Nissan deciding around five years ago to extending the generation life of its models), the 9th gen Maxima will probably not arrive until the 2022 or 2023 model year. Do you think the 3.0TT will be in the Maxima by the 8.5 gen around the 2018 or 2019 model year, or not until the 9th gen around 2022? I think you are correct that the long-running 3.5 will be gone at one of those two times.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I would think that Nissan/Renault would milk all hell out of the Vq35 (not that they haven't already, man have they whored out that motor lol) and keep it going for as long as possible. The Vq35s power figures aren't put to shame by the newer direct injection competitors yet. Also, since the Altima needs to bow down to the Maxima, in the future the Vq35 might carry on in the high volume cash cow Altima, while the 3.0TT goes somewhat exclusively into the lower volume but premium Maxima halo car, furthering the distinction between the Altima/Maxima siblings. Of course the 3.0TT would go in the future Z as well. And then a 4.0TT derivative into GODZILLA R36!

Max2013

That is an EXCELLENT point! Many obviously don't understand that almost all Altimas are 2.5 4 bangers. If people look, there really are not very many 3.5 Altimas on the road. This makes the comparison of the Maxima vs the generic Altima essentially meaningless. Interestingly, Nissan has now discontinued the S and SV trim levels of the 3.5 on the 2015 Altima. Leaving only the SL 3.5 version. Could be the first step toward Light's suggestion of doing away with the 3.5 Altima all together. Bam.. No overlap.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Hey man, I think that Nissan knows that the 3.5/3.7 duo are about done for....they are as powerful but not nearly as efficient as newer powerplants. That's the downfall to our beloved VQ. I hope that the 3.0TT makes it to the Maxima for the refresh or perhaps sooner, it will bring back the days that they shared pretty much the same heart until the 3.7 hit the 370z in 09. Godzilla omg, that thing is already something else, a 4.0 TT will make it GODILLAAAA!

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Hey Light, I'm thinking this time it will (3.0TT or other TT) will make it to the Max sooner than the .5 gen. We all have loved the 3.5 in the Max since 02, but we all know that it was never very fuel efficient and with today's tougher regulations Nissan has to do something to make it more competitive. Hey Light if it comes out say the '17 or '18 model year will your '16 8th gen have a short life if you so happen to like the new motor . I dunno if the acceleration and overall power difference will be like when the 3.5 was introduced in 02 where the 02 was sooooo much faster/quicker than the 01 throughout the powerband despite the other many many many other changes that went on, the efficiency of it will be better though!

lightonthehill

MONTE - Thanks for the response. I am a tad surprised you think there is the possibility Nissan may put the 3.0TT in the Maxima as early as next summer's 2017. Nissan seldom makes changes the second year of a generation. I would not be at all surprised if your 2018 possibility is correct. Throw in a few more changes with the 3.0TT, such as a moonroof option in the SR, change the tailpipe array from two to four (ugh), make the taillight array more attractive, etc, and call the 2018 the 'half gen', even though that will not be the midpoint of the 8th gen's life.

But your premise that the 3.5 may soon be replaced in the Maxima makes sense. I had not thought very hard about that possibility, but greater acceleration with higher fuel efficiency makes a lot of sense. I think the 3.5 could also disappear from the Altima around the same time. At some point, a 2.0TT (plus maybe a 2.5TT option) would seem to be just right for the high volume production Altima.

QT1 5MT AE

iTrader: (6)

the maxima met the guillotine in 2004. thats why this forum is dead now because the oldskool maxima enthusiasts don't care about the new platforms and moved on to other cars (mostly G35)

lightonthehill

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the old Maxima changed. It was replaced by the 3.5 manual Altima, and the Maxima name was moved to Nissan's new upscale near-luxury flagship. Ghosn explained all this in 2002, but evidently there were a lot of folks not listening.

This 2016 Maxima is so vastly superior to the Maximas of the eighties and nineties (yes, I owned every generation) that there is absolutely no comparison. But then they are very different cars aimed at very different customers. This 2016 Maxima will sell, and will have a lot of folks excited. Just not exactly the same audience that loved those early Maximas.

NissanFreak2000

Agreed. This Maxima is the best most complete package that Nissan has produced to date. As you said it may have lost a few of its old customers, but most remained and this new one will bring in lots of new blood as Nissan continues to push the Maxima up and the Altima down.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

This actually started the 02 model year, was announced in 2001...The 02 was the first to offer memory seats, HIDs, auto entry system, (got a tad softer) etc etc, none of this was previously offered on a Maxima prior to that. It was also the 1st year that production was intentionally cut to well well under 100k units a year to make room for the 3.5 Altima.

lightonthehill

Good info, MONTE. Now that you mention it, I do remember that the changes to the 2002 '5 1/2' gen Maxima were more than we usually get in a half gen. Kinda made me jealous, as I was still floating around town in my 'old' 2000 SE (which never had a problem in the 5 years I owned it).

I have seen posts on maxima.org from folks who feel the 2002/2003 Maximas were the last 'real' Maximas. I don't think some of them realized that those two model years were, as you indicated, the first step to taking the Maxima to an entirely different category.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Yeah Light the 5.5 gen really started the change and was probably the most drastic .5 gen change in Maxima history no doubt (3.5 gen and 6.5 gen other notables). Those features I mentioned alone sent it into the next level up, only luxury cars then offered those features (one I did forget that you love the heated steering wheel came along in 02 as well). My beloved 01 SE had to have an early bye bye as I was really that much more impressed with the 5.5 and its features than the 5th, not to mention my wife loved the 3.5's power. She has a heavy foot per say ;-).

lightonthehill

Yeah, some of the half-gen changes were rather bland. About the only thing I recall that changed between the 2nd and 2 1/2 gen were the wheels. Might have been a tad more, but I'm too lazy to dig out the Nissan brochures for those two years and check.

I always buy the first model year of each generation, and there have been times I later installed things that Nissan added to later model year cars in my generation. For instance, Nissan added high mounted brake lights in the 1986 model (not a 'half gen, but using as an illustration), and I immediately ordered two sets of high mounted brake lights (took six weeks, as they came from Japan), and installed them on my wife's '85 and on my '85.

Unless I can order an 8th gen from the factory, I will be adding accessories to my 2016. I will either be adding a black rear diffuser, or painting the one that comes on my car black. I will also add the lighted sills (gotta do this, as my son has lighted sills in his new Accord Touring). I might add the premium spoiler, but probably not. I haven't decided on puddle lights or armrest covers or chrome rocker panel trim yet. I will probably just keep the shift **** that comes with the car.

I think, other than a fundamental change in target audience, another thing that may be disappointing old-time Maxima lovers is that this car has become more expensive as it moves up the 'image' line to near-luxury. A maxed-out Maxima with just a few additional accesories is over $40K MSRP. We won't really pay that much, but it is still going to be a big bite from many folk's budget.

MaxMus

light why are you up so early? lol you're like my retired dad. he's up before the sun. lol.

lightonthehill

Actually, I haven't been to bed yet. I usually watch Aljazeera news from Doha, Qatar during the night. I want another perspective than the view from NBC and ABC news I watch each evening.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

New front and rear bumpers, new headlight and grille, new tail lights, new shifter for automatic, slightly different tach on non digital dash, different radio/equalizer on later builds, later builds added those automatic seatbelts, new steering wheel on later builds, tilt feature sunroof added, they claim 5 more hp from 152hp to 157 hp do to new muffler. 87 had the MegaMax SE with the body kit, 88 had Shiro SE edition that had whited out rims, some of the trim whited out and a few other items, their was also a Shiro 300zx that year.

lightonthehill

I should have known to dig out my Nissan brochures. Slipping anything Maxima-related past MONTE is like trying to slip retreaded tires past an avid Maxima driver.

Speaking of retreaded tires, MONTE probably remembers that in the 1950s and 1960s, tires were much higher and narrower, the tread was deeper, and when the tire wore down to bald, there were 'regrooving' machines that actually cut grooves into the remaining rubber so as to get more mileage out of the tire. Unless the regrooving cut into the reinforcing plies (all tires were bias ply in the 1950s, and most tires were still bias ply in the 1960s), regrooving was pefectly legal.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Hehe, you know it Light! Maxima related from Gen 1 to 7 I know it, 8 is on the to learn list!. Yes I do recall hearing about those tires, something etched in my memory. I hear lots these days from various people the 70's started changing things in not such a good way on many fronts from automotive to ways of life. Good example, movies people really did not cuss in movies a lot, 70's hit.....Dat B, M.fer etc etc, people around in earlier times that passed if they could be alive would be appalled at the 70's to current behaviors!

lightonthehill

Agreed. There have always been bad apples in any generation, but, despite all the statistics, I am convinced crime is worse than we had in the 1940s and 1950s. It seems we have several folks killed by gunfire in the Atlanta metro area every night.

I mentioned retreads. In 1961, when I was not very wealthy (read poor), I put four new retreads on my '55 Pontiac Star Chief and headed to the lake for a 4th of July weekend party. The first retread separated within twenty miles. I put on the spare. The second one separated in another ten miles or so, so I had to purchase a cheap tire in order to continue. Long story short, all four retreads separated within the first sixty miles, and we had no party at the lake.

And yet we have thousands of long-haul semis operating on retreads on our roads today. And, for nature lovers, that is where alligators along the interstate highways come from.