Headers Comparison (95-03)
11-03-2007, 04:55 PM
#42
I hate being slow
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jenks, Oklahoma
Posts: 55
ok...i know there was a pair of headers mentioned from ebay going for 150 but these are the only ones i see on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compl...QQcmdZViewItem
does anybody know what brand these are? they're making claims but i see no dyno...and the "supposedly" fit i almost bought them a while ago..but then i got smart and saved up for bigger and better plans that i hope to carry out soon
does anybody know what brand these are? they're making claims but i see no dyno...and the "supposedly" fit i almost bought them a while ago..but then i got smart and saved up for bigger and better plans that i hope to carry out soon
11-04-2007, 07:39 AM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
well then i am the first that is having fitment issues. The actually headers fit like a glove. Instailling them was soo simple and easy. I will say install of the actually headers is way better then the hotshot. I had hotshot before and i had problems with them. Now my point is I am haing trouble with the y-pipe. the y-pipe doesn't match up with the headers. If i match up the front of the y-pipe to the front header, the back part of the y-pipe doesnt match with the rear header.And another thing is that it seems like the y-pipe is too long because it pushes my exhaust out and the tip sticks out past the bumper. also the exhaust is not centered in the tunnel. My car is a 96 with a vq35
11-04-2007, 08:27 AM
#44
well then i am the first that is having fitment issues. The actually headers fit like a glove. Instailling them was soo simple and easy. I will say install of the actually headers is way better then the hotshot. I had hotshot before and i had problems with them. Now my point is I am haing trouble with the y-pipe. the y-pipe doesn't match up with the headers. If i match up the front of the y-pipe to the front header, the back part of the y-pipe doesnt match with the rear header.And another thing is that it seems like the y-pipe is too long because it pushes my exhaust out and the tip sticks out past the bumper. also the exhaust is not centered in the tunnel. My car is a 96 with a vq35
The pipe is only temporary untill I get my custom y-pipie,but the headers are great
11-04-2007, 09:17 AM
#45
well then i am the first that is having fitment issues. The actually headers fit like a glove. Instailling them was soo simple and easy. I will say install of the actually headers is way better then the hotshot. I had hotshot before and i had problems with them. Now my point is I am haing trouble with the y-pipe. the y-pipe doesn't match up with the headers. If i match up the front of the y-pipe to the front header, the back part of the y-pipe doesnt match with the rear header.And another thing is that it seems like the y-pipe is too long because it pushes my exhaust out and the tip sticks out past the bumper. also the exhaust is not centered in the tunnel. My car is a 96 with a vq35
The issues you mention can be solved with proper installation technique.
Since there is room for movement where the manifolds bolt to the heads (bolt holes larger than bolts), the manifolds should be loose on the heads until the y-pipe is connected with both (tighten up the y-pipe first after using play in the bolt holes to align it properly), then bolt everything down, alternating from side to side as you tighten the bolts. The manifolds cannot be positioned exactly until they're both connected to the y-pipe.
The y-pipe dimensions are just like stock, give or take a quarter inch, so there should be no major change in exhaust position. You can make sure its properly aligned if you leave bolts loose until positioned properly and then tighten things down in the correct sequence.
I stand by my statement that these fit great - no heating, bending or cutting like you hear about other brands - but it's still a challenging installation and needs to be done right.
Brian
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
11-04-2007, 10:45 AM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Brain that does make sense but how do i know that the headers will be flat and tight when they are against the actually heads? I assumed that the best way was to do it like the way i did it because there wont be any leaks. Also when installing the rear header do you have to remove the bracket that is bolted to the block? The bracket holds the rear motor mount.
11-07-2007, 10:22 AM
#47
Brain that does make sense but how do i know that the headers will be flat and tight when they are against the actually heads? I assumed that the best way was to do it like the way i did it because there wont be any leaks. Also when installing the rear header do you have to remove the bracket that is bolted to the block? The bracket holds the rear motor mount.
If you follow the sequence I've suggested - which would be standard procedure with any header installation - once everything's bolted and torqued there will be a perfect seal at the headers, that's no concern. This won't correct a situation where there's truly a bad fit, but that's not the case here.
When you do it the way you did, you not only create a minor misalignment ( by "locking down" all the tightened joints in slightly incorrect positions as allowed by play in the bolt holes (instead of allowing everything to settle into natural positions), it's all focussed on a single flange-to-flange connection instead of being spread out over all the flanges. Hope that makes sense...
11-08-2007, 06:33 PM
#49
As a matter of fact, they're in stock right at this moment. Give us a call at 520.575.6195 or 800.759.9920, open 9-5 MST.
We do offer a good package discount if you buy a full exhaust system, though I'll note that we're low on both 00-03 catbacks and FastCats right now (not out, but low).
Brian
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
#51
joining nycmaximas
02-18-2008, 08:47 PM
#53
Are you guys planning on releasing an equal length y-pipe to work with stock primaries? I want to get a y-pipe but hate the GM 3800 exhaust notes the unequal length setups give. I've heard the Cattman header setup and it sounds unlike any other setup for the Maxima...
12-02-2009, 08:49 AM
#59
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3
Alright, quick question. I've got a 98' XE 5 speed, I put an exhaust system on that sounds amazing and some ADR 18'' wheels w/ falken tires. Anyhow, I'm getting ready to head down to Arizona to have my brother do some work on my vehicle. New headers, y pipe, cold air intake, cross drilled rotors. So.. am i going to notice my car sounding any different and hp gain? What other steps should i be taking performance wise?
07-31-2011, 12:03 AM
#61
Wow, you put a lot of work into this, nice effort! I'd like to make a few additional observations.
1. First, I can't expect someone to go out and buy a new Cattman header set to write a review, but one of our current headers would look good there, or at least a new set to compare with the others. The Cattman product shown is a used header and not only a design that's no longer in production, plus this is one of the crudest early versions of that system (slab head flanges, ugh!). Have to say, it definitely looked better after being painted!
This what our current header design look like. We've incorporated quite a few improvements since the set you reviewed, plus (and this is a huge plus) the company that's making them is about 10,000x more reliable on build quality and production schedules. Here they are:
Check out those sleek head flanges, the extra length US-made flex section, the beautiful TIG welding (OK, I'll admit, its too small to see the welding), the thick 16 gauge 304 stainless tubing from the US-based Rath Mill, those beautiful 3-1 and 2-1 collectors (collectors are a big part of performance, try to find anything like these on other parts, you won't), and a beautifully machined EGR port that should be on exhibit in an industrial museum. Whoa, better stop before I get carried away, but check out the skid plate under the y-pipe's equalizing loop...
2. Second, the headers made by my mates in New Zealand have been in production for almost 10 years, so I believe that good Kiwi ingenuity was the first to market with a Maxima header (we imported these previous to making our own s/s design in the States).
3. Regarding OBX headers, the O2 sensors are not in the appropriate position, they should be at the base of the 3-1 collector, not way below. Not sure why there are four, if the secondary sensors are screwed in at that spot, there will be two instant ECU codes, so that is baffling. You'd have to find plugs for the two ports that weren't used, and then wire in an O2 simulator.
The flex between the two manifolds is only there for installation purposes so the y-pipe does not have to be built to fit precisely. There is no flexing that takes place there once its installed on the engine. The primary flex is too short, increasing the risk of premature failure.
I agree with your point about the undersized tubing on the Y, that really stands out. The area of OBX's 2.125" tubing cross section is about 3.5 square inches, but the cross section of a 2.5" tube (like on the Cattman or Hotshot) is 4.9 square inches, 40% more cross-sectional area than the OBX. I'm wondering if the OBX design was originally designed oversears for the VQ20DE motor with tubing that size.
4. I have nothing bad to say about Hotshot headers, but their mild steel, MIG-welded headers were never in quite the same league as the stainless steel, TIG-welded Cattman parts.
5. I notice that you don't discuss materials, which shouldn't be overlooked because they are critical to durability and performance. Its useful to touch upon the advantages of stainless over mild steel (check this out - Burns Stainless tech article).
Materials thickness - particularly the gauge of tubing. A caliper can be used to check the thickness of the stainless steel in the tubing walls. Thin-walled imported steel - even stainless steel - is subject to premature cracking.
Also worthwile to discuss the relative merits of TIG-welding over MIG-welding. This makes a lot of difference in header durability (and production cost), and even performance (check out the intrusions into the exhaust stream from MIG-welding).
Just my $0.02.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
1. First, I can't expect someone to go out and buy a new Cattman header set to write a review, but one of our current headers would look good there, or at least a new set to compare with the others. The Cattman product shown is a used header and not only a design that's no longer in production, plus this is one of the crudest early versions of that system (slab head flanges, ugh!). Have to say, it definitely looked better after being painted!
This what our current header design look like. We've incorporated quite a few improvements since the set you reviewed, plus (and this is a huge plus) the company that's making them is about 10,000x more reliable on build quality and production schedules. Here they are:
Check out those sleek head flanges, the extra length US-made flex section, the beautiful TIG welding (OK, I'll admit, its too small to see the welding), the thick 16 gauge 304 stainless tubing from the US-based Rath Mill, those beautiful 3-1 and 2-1 collectors (collectors are a big part of performance, try to find anything like these on other parts, you won't), and a beautifully machined EGR port that should be on exhibit in an industrial museum. Whoa, better stop before I get carried away, but check out the skid plate under the y-pipe's equalizing loop...
2. Second, the headers made by my mates in New Zealand have been in production for almost 10 years, so I believe that good Kiwi ingenuity was the first to market with a Maxima header (we imported these previous to making our own s/s design in the States).
3. Regarding OBX headers, the O2 sensors are not in the appropriate position, they should be at the base of the 3-1 collector, not way below. Not sure why there are four, if the secondary sensors are screwed in at that spot, there will be two instant ECU codes, so that is baffling. You'd have to find plugs for the two ports that weren't used, and then wire in an O2 simulator.
The flex between the two manifolds is only there for installation purposes so the y-pipe does not have to be built to fit precisely. There is no flexing that takes place there once its installed on the engine. The primary flex is too short, increasing the risk of premature failure.
I agree with your point about the undersized tubing on the Y, that really stands out. The area of OBX's 2.125" tubing cross section is about 3.5 square inches, but the cross section of a 2.5" tube (like on the Cattman or Hotshot) is 4.9 square inches, 40% more cross-sectional area than the OBX. I'm wondering if the OBX design was originally designed oversears for the VQ20DE motor with tubing that size.
4. I have nothing bad to say about Hotshot headers, but their mild steel, MIG-welded headers were never in quite the same league as the stainless steel, TIG-welded Cattman parts.
5. I notice that you don't discuss materials, which shouldn't be overlooked because they are critical to durability and performance. Its useful to touch upon the advantages of stainless over mild steel (check this out - Burns Stainless tech article).
Materials thickness - particularly the gauge of tubing. A caliper can be used to check the thickness of the stainless steel in the tubing walls. Thin-walled imported steel - even stainless steel - is subject to premature cracking.
Also worthwile to discuss the relative merits of TIG-welding over MIG-welding. This makes a lot of difference in header durability (and production cost), and even performance (check out the intrusions into the exhaust stream from MIG-welding).
Just my $0.02.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
07-09-2012, 06:00 PM
#62
i saw viper vadims write up and comparison on the headers which is absolutely EPIC! but there's just one issue...
He mentions that longer tube headers are better for high rpms and the shorty style headers are good for low end and choke up top.
i thought this too until i had a discussion with someone on here about the runner lengths in the 00vi and how the longer length is better for low to mid and then vias switches to a shorter length to have better flow at high rpm. it goes the same for headers...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...est/index.html
i know thats for a mustang but it goes for all cars, or at least all cars with a V engine.
The cattman and obx headers are still short if you compare to true longtube headers on an FR layout but they are longer than the ebay/xs power shorties so i guess we can call them hybrid length? lol
i also noticed equal vs unequal y pipe power delivery and noticed that an equal y delivers peak power 500rpm later (when comparing unequal to stock) not much but its there
http://www.boostaholic.com/maxima/dyno/index.html
I only want more and more top end and its why i was doing so much reasearch. i have more than enough mid range so i'm going with the shorties and making an equal y pipe.
He mentions that longer tube headers are better for high rpms and the shorty style headers are good for low end and choke up top.
i thought this too until i had a discussion with someone on here about the runner lengths in the 00vi and how the longer length is better for low to mid and then vias switches to a shorter length to have better flow at high rpm. it goes the same for headers...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...est/index.html
i know thats for a mustang but it goes for all cars, or at least all cars with a V engine.
The cattman and obx headers are still short if you compare to true longtube headers on an FR layout but they are longer than the ebay/xs power shorties so i guess we can call them hybrid length? lol
i also noticed equal vs unequal y pipe power delivery and noticed that an equal y delivers peak power 500rpm later (when comparing unequal to stock) not much but its there
http://www.boostaholic.com/maxima/dyno/index.html
I only want more and more top end and its why i was doing so much reasearch. i have more than enough mid range so i'm going with the shorties and making an equal y pipe.
04-24-2014, 09:11 AM
#65
So, you mean using the stock catback with aftermarket headers? Yup, I did it for many years and many others have as well. The headers you want will include the y-pipe.
Last edited by NmexMAX; 04-24-2014 at 09:35 AM.
05-03-2014, 07:48 AM
#66
OEM Header--->OEM Y-pipe(with pre-cats)--->Catalytic Converter--->OEM B-Pipe--->and finally OEM muffler.
A catback system replaces everything in blue, i.e. everything after the catatlytic converter up to and including the muffler.
An aftermarket Y pipe replaces the OEM Y-pipe(with pre-cats.)
An aftermarket header replaces the OEM header. You usually want to replace the OEM Y pipe with precats as well. It doesn't make sense to free up the header only to be choked by the oem y pipe AND precats.
If you want to make more power but stay as quiet as stock, replace everything in red only (Headers and a Y-pipe). Keep the OEM B-Pipe OEM muffler.
If you want maximize the power freed up from the exhaust, replace everything, but know that an aftermarket B-pipe and muffler will not be quiet as stock.
07-17-2014, 08:49 PM
#67
Link to pics comparing two versions of eBay headers available for the altima that can be modified to fit the max with work):
http://forums.maxima.org/8970212-post13.html
http://forums.maxima.org/8970212-post13.html
09-08-2014, 10:11 PM
#68
09-09-2014, 08:34 PM
#69
09-12-2014, 01:14 PM
#70
09-12-2014, 02:31 PM
#71
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