6spd_Hayes - 2k2 Engine build thread
02-27-2012, 08:37 AM
#1
6spd_Hayes - 2k2 Engine build thread (Updated 3/5/12)
Donor engine - 40k 3.5 from a 2003 Maxima Auto
The plan:
- install Deluboz cams (knock-off JWT S1 cams)
- install HR valve springs (double shimmed 3/5/2012 updated)
- install lightweight UD Pulley
- install Fidanza flywheel
- install NISMO thermostat
- step colder spark plugs
- '06 350Z Rev-up Oil Pump (3/5/12 updated)
- ARP Rod Bolts (Part No. 202-6006) (3/5/12 updated)
- New rear main seal (3/5/12 updated)
- (not motor related but) install Greddy EMU
Pictures:
Comments welcome!
The plan:
- install Deluboz cams (knock-off JWT S1 cams)
- install HR valve springs (double shimmed 3/5/2012 updated)
- install lightweight UD Pulley
- install Fidanza flywheel
- install NISMO thermostat
- step colder spark plugs
- '06 350Z Rev-up Oil Pump (3/5/12 updated)
- ARP Rod Bolts (Part No. 202-6006) (3/5/12 updated)
- New rear main seal (3/5/12 updated)
- (not motor related but) install Greddy EMU
Pictures:
Comments welcome!
Last edited by 6spd_Hayes; 03-05-2012 at 01:44 PM.
02-27-2012, 08:54 AM
#2
Doubled shimmed springs?
I think it was the general consensus that doubled shimmed HR springs were best for 7500.
Some graphs/pictures are down, but:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...revup-etc.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...ec-charts.html
I think it was the general consensus that doubled shimmed HR springs were best for 7500.
Some graphs/pictures are down, but:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...revup-etc.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...ec-charts.html
02-27-2012, 09:39 AM
#4
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Any reason you are going with such mild cams?
Ever thought of using the DLC HR buckets? 1/2 the price of cams and should give great results.
If you are tearing the engine down that far why not fix the bad piston rings?
Hasn't Greddy been an issue on 02/03 ECUs?
Ever thought of using the DLC HR buckets? 1/2 the price of cams and should give great results.
If you are tearing the engine down that far why not fix the bad piston rings?
Hasn't Greddy been an issue on 02/03 ECUs?
02-27-2012, 10:01 AM
#5
Doubled shimmed springs?
I think it was the general consensus that doubled shimmed HR springs were best for 7500.
Some graphs/pictures are down, but:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...revup-etc.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...ec-charts.html
I think it was the general consensus that doubled shimmed HR springs were best for 7500.
Some graphs/pictures are down, but:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...revup-etc.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...ec-charts.html
Darren, I have a E-Manage Ultimate right now (not installed) but I am certainly going to give your Haltech system a looksee. I am very interested in it. I honestly didn't have the greatest confidence in the GEMU.
NYCBL00D, I got those cams for a) the price, and b) this is my daily driver.
02-27-2012, 01:44 PM
#9
Is that NISMO thermostat the one where people have thrown SES codes because it never lets the coolant reach a certain degree? I read that people have had trouble in colder weather with it opening sooner and not letting coolant get up to temp so engine throws check engine codes because of temps not being within min range.
Also if you going to cam it up don't go with those light cams....go bigger! While you got that engine out and doing all that get some 264 cams or something.....like some BC stage II or some Kelford 264 or JWT c2 or C8 cams....
Also...Also..LOL. SERIOUSLY consider HALTECH since you are putting so much time and money into this build. You will get ALOT more out of those cams being able to adjust IVT (Intake Camshaft Variable Timing) You will be able to make up for the losses down low the cams will give you and pick up more up top as well. Emanage and UTEC doesn't allow you to adjust IVT...only Haltech. Also Haltech will give you a MUCH MUCH more smoother tune and will run better in my opinion!
Also why you need step colder plugs for all motor?? Unless you are going turbo? I don't know can someone tell me perhaps Im wrong?
And while you got that engine all out and disassembled why not do higher compression pistons and some forged rods? Might as well....???
Other than that GRATE build!!
Also if you going to cam it up don't go with those light cams....go bigger! While you got that engine out and doing all that get some 264 cams or something.....like some BC stage II or some Kelford 264 or JWT c2 or C8 cams....
Also...Also..LOL. SERIOUSLY consider HALTECH since you are putting so much time and money into this build. You will get ALOT more out of those cams being able to adjust IVT (Intake Camshaft Variable Timing) You will be able to make up for the losses down low the cams will give you and pick up more up top as well. Emanage and UTEC doesn't allow you to adjust IVT...only Haltech. Also Haltech will give you a MUCH MUCH more smoother tune and will run better in my opinion!
Also why you need step colder plugs for all motor?? Unless you are going turbo? I don't know can someone tell me perhaps Im wrong?
And while you got that engine all out and disassembled why not do higher compression pistons and some forged rods? Might as well....???
Other than that GRATE build!!
02-27-2012, 02:05 PM
#10
Is that NISMO thermostat the one where people have thrown SES codes because it never lets the coolant reach a certain degree? I read that people have had trouble in colder weather with it opening sooner and not letting coolant get up to temp so engine throws check engine codes because of temps not being within min range.
Also if you going to cam it up don't go with those light cams....go bigger! While you got that engine out and doing all that get some 264 cams or something.....like some BC stage II or some Kelford 264 or JWT c2 or C8 cams....
Also...Also..LOL. SERIOUSLY consider HALTECH since you are putting so much time and money into this build. You will get ALOT more out of those cams being able to adjust IVT (Intake Camshaft Variable Timing) You will be able to make up for the losses down low the cams will give you and pick up more up top as well. Emanage and UTEC doesn't allow you to adjust IVT...only Haltech. Also Haltech will give you a MUCH MUCH more smoother tune and will run better in my opinion!
Also why you need step colder plugs for all motor?? Unless you are going turbo? I don't know can someone tell me perhaps Im wrong?
And while you got that engine all out and disassembled why not do higher compression pistons and some forged rods? Might as well....???
Other than that GRATE build!!
Also if you going to cam it up don't go with those light cams....go bigger! While you got that engine out and doing all that get some 264 cams or something.....like some BC stage II or some Kelford 264 or JWT c2 or C8 cams....
Also...Also..LOL. SERIOUSLY consider HALTECH since you are putting so much time and money into this build. You will get ALOT more out of those cams being able to adjust IVT (Intake Camshaft Variable Timing) You will be able to make up for the losses down low the cams will give you and pick up more up top as well. Emanage and UTEC doesn't allow you to adjust IVT...only Haltech. Also Haltech will give you a MUCH MUCH more smoother tune and will run better in my opinion!
Also why you need step colder plugs for all motor?? Unless you are going turbo? I don't know can someone tell me perhaps Im wrong?
And while you got that engine all out and disassembled why not do higher compression pistons and some forged rods? Might as well....???
Other than that GRATE build!!
The NISMO thermostat was bought about 3 years back. Got a link to discussions on it throwing codes? I am in N Alabama so I don't have to worry too much about it getting too cold. I'll need to go back and do some research on the one step colder plugs.
I am already treading lightly on installing cams, I really didn't want to pull the heads off.
02-27-2012, 02:06 PM
#11
Tell me more about these DLC HR Buckets...
02-27-2012, 02:51 PM
#12
Haltech discussions buried in here:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...vq35-info.html
And a little touching base in here:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...5-5gen-na.html
If i hadn't bought the UTEC, I'd go Haltech. Having Darren around is a wonderful resource for us orgers, him and his pioneering, not to mention PnP harnessing.
I believe people from other VQ35 sites reported SES codes, but I know BlackBird tried it and it was in closed loop trying to get to operating temp, but it took a lot longer than usual.
http://forums.maxima.org/6075351-post22.html
There's also the shimming method:
http://forums.maxima.org/general-max...-temp-mod.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...vq35-info.html
And a little touching base in here:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...5-5gen-na.html
If i hadn't bought the UTEC, I'd go Haltech. Having Darren around is a wonderful resource for us orgers, him and his pioneering, not to mention PnP harnessing.
I believe people from other VQ35 sites reported SES codes, but I know BlackBird tried it and it was in closed loop trying to get to operating temp, but it took a lot longer than usual.
http://forums.maxima.org/6075351-post22.html
There's also the shimming method:
http://forums.maxima.org/general-max...-temp-mod.html
Last edited by NmexMAX; 02-27-2012 at 02:56 PM.
02-28-2012, 04:35 AM
#13
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECH...RVIEW/dlc.html
All HRs have them. 25% less friction. A little pricey but if you are doing head work it's a decent upgrade from what I have read on my350z
All HRs have them. 25% less friction. A little pricey but if you are doing head work it's a decent upgrade from what I have read on my350z
02-28-2012, 06:18 AM
#14
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECH...RVIEW/dlc.html
All HRs have them. 25% less friction. A little pricey but if you are doing head work it's a decent upgrade from what I have read on my350z
All HRs have them. 25% less friction. A little pricey but if you are doing head work it's a decent upgrade from what I have read on my350z
02-28-2012, 08:39 AM
#17
Hi Hayes,
haven't been on here for a while, looks like a good mild build.
since you're doing everything yourself and you have a spare engine/time here's a few tips (done this myself at least 8 times w both 3.5L and 3.0L timing) from all the things i've picked up over the years.
I would add the following to truly balance out the build and allow you to rev higher in case you decide to do so (in the future):
-Rev-up oil pump (a must IMHO) with
-ARP rod bolts -- since the timing is off anyway (just have to remove upper oil pan -will need 2 new quarter-moon shaped seals [1 you already have out @ bottom of timing cover] and 2 O-rings for oil pump when putting it back on -overlooked parts)
-rear main seal. @ $37 it's a no-brainer considering i've personally seen them leak as early as 67K (very overlooked part in terms of long-term reliability)
-main chain tensioner -this one is more preventative maintenance. i've read about many who had skipped timing and related issues from reusing the main tensioners, I've gotten them new with all my builds and never had a problem ($60 part) also make sure you fill it with oil before bolting in place as it stays primed for when you actually swap it and start recirculating oil inside.
-no need for new water pump @ 35K (otherwise at 70K+ new)
-make sure you take out ALL the excess rtv sealant from inside the bolt holes for new rtv to have space inside
-make sure you use cam lube on all journals and cam lobes prior to installing the cams.
-make sure you check the cold lash of cams installed (might have to move a few buckets around to keep all clearances exactly same) but aftermarket cams tend to be very much in spec compared to rev-ups and stock from my experience with BC, Kelford, Tomei, Cosworth and real JWTs.
-i like to keep the timing chains lying in a container with some oil so it does not dry/rust
how are you going to tackle the valve springs?
taking the heads off? or compressed air in the cyl?
you've got a nice area and engine stand to work with, get a couple of Bed Bath Beyond plastic containers to hold all parts and keep it all organized, and put a large clear plastic bag over the engine to keep dirt out, oil in, and the smell from stinking up the garage.
DO check out the haltech as it is MUCH better that the EU (have EU since 07 but I have 3.0L timing, so my options were limited)
Good luck = it's gonna be great when it's all done and tuned believe me hard work pays off
haven't been on here for a while, looks like a good mild build.
since you're doing everything yourself and you have a spare engine/time here's a few tips (done this myself at least 8 times w both 3.5L and 3.0L timing) from all the things i've picked up over the years.
I would add the following to truly balance out the build and allow you to rev higher in case you decide to do so (in the future):
-Rev-up oil pump (a must IMHO) with
-ARP rod bolts -- since the timing is off anyway (just have to remove upper oil pan -will need 2 new quarter-moon shaped seals [1 you already have out @ bottom of timing cover] and 2 O-rings for oil pump when putting it back on -overlooked parts)
-rear main seal. @ $37 it's a no-brainer considering i've personally seen them leak as early as 67K (very overlooked part in terms of long-term reliability)
-main chain tensioner -this one is more preventative maintenance. i've read about many who had skipped timing and related issues from reusing the main tensioners, I've gotten them new with all my builds and never had a problem ($60 part) also make sure you fill it with oil before bolting in place as it stays primed for when you actually swap it and start recirculating oil inside.
-no need for new water pump @ 35K (otherwise at 70K+ new)
-make sure you take out ALL the excess rtv sealant from inside the bolt holes for new rtv to have space inside
-make sure you use cam lube on all journals and cam lobes prior to installing the cams.
-make sure you check the cold lash of cams installed (might have to move a few buckets around to keep all clearances exactly same) but aftermarket cams tend to be very much in spec compared to rev-ups and stock from my experience with BC, Kelford, Tomei, Cosworth and real JWTs.
-i like to keep the timing chains lying in a container with some oil so it does not dry/rust
how are you going to tackle the valve springs?
taking the heads off? or compressed air in the cyl?
you've got a nice area and engine stand to work with, get a couple of Bed Bath Beyond plastic containers to hold all parts and keep it all organized, and put a large clear plastic bag over the engine to keep dirt out, oil in, and the smell from stinking up the garage.
DO check out the haltech as it is MUCH better that the EU (have EU since 07 but I have 3.0L timing, so my options were limited)
Good luck = it's gonna be great when it's all done and tuned
believe me hard work pays off
02-28-2012, 09:18 AM
#18
Hi Hayes,
haven't been on here for a while, looks like a good mild build.
since you're doing everything yourself and you have a spare engine/time here's a few tips (done this myself at least 8 times w both 3.5L and 3.0L timing) from all the things i've picked up over the years.
I would add the following to truly balance out the build and allow you to rev higher in case you decide to do so (in the future):
-Rev-up oil pump (a must IMHO) with
-ARP rod bolts -- since the timing is off anyway (just have to remove upper oil pan -will need 2 new quarter-moon shaped seals [1 you already have out @ bottom of timing cover] and 2 O-rings for oil pump when putting it back on -overlooked parts)
-rear main seal. @ $37 it's a no-brainer considering i've personally seen them leak as early as 67K (very overlooked part in terms of long-term reliability)
-main chain tensioner -this one is more preventative maintenance. i've read about many who had skipped timing and related issues from reusing the main tensioners, I've gotten them new with all my builds and never had a problem ($60 part) also make sure you fill it with oil before bolting in place as it stays primed for when you actually swap it and start recirculating oil inside.
-no need for new water pump @ 35K (otherwise at 70K+ new)
-make sure you take out ALL the excess rtv sealant from inside the bolt holes for new rtv to have space inside
-make sure you use cam lube on all journals and cam lobes prior to installing the cams.
-make sure you check the cold lash of cams installed (might have to move a few buckets around to keep all clearances exactly same) but aftermarket cams tend to be very much in spec compared to rev-ups and stock from my experience with BC, Kelford, Tomei, Cosworth and real JWTs.
-i like to keep the timing chains lying in a container with some oil so it does not dry/rust
how are you going to tackle the valve springs?
taking the heads off? or compressed air in the cyl?
you've got a nice area and engine stand to work with, get a couple of Bed Bath Beyond plastic containers to hold all parts and keep it all organized, and put a large clear plastic bag over the engine to keep dirt out, oil in, and the smell from stinking up the garage.
DO check out the haltech as it is MUCH better that the EU (have EU since 07 but I have 3.0L timing, so my options were limited)
Good luck = it's gonna be great when it's all done and tuned believe me hard work pays off
haven't been on here for a while, looks like a good mild build.
since you're doing everything yourself and you have a spare engine/time here's a few tips (done this myself at least 8 times w both 3.5L and 3.0L timing) from all the things i've picked up over the years.
I would add the following to truly balance out the build and allow you to rev higher in case you decide to do so (in the future):
-Rev-up oil pump (a must IMHO) with
-ARP rod bolts -- since the timing is off anyway (just have to remove upper oil pan -will need 2 new quarter-moon shaped seals [1 you already have out @ bottom of timing cover] and 2 O-rings for oil pump when putting it back on -overlooked parts)
-rear main seal. @ $37 it's a no-brainer considering i've personally seen them leak as early as 67K (very overlooked part in terms of long-term reliability)
-main chain tensioner -this one is more preventative maintenance. i've read about many who had skipped timing and related issues from reusing the main tensioners, I've gotten them new with all my builds and never had a problem ($60 part) also make sure you fill it with oil before bolting in place as it stays primed for when you actually swap it and start recirculating oil inside.
-no need for new water pump @ 35K (otherwise at 70K+ new)
-make sure you take out ALL the excess rtv sealant from inside the bolt holes for new rtv to have space inside
-make sure you use cam lube on all journals and cam lobes prior to installing the cams.
-make sure you check the cold lash of cams installed (might have to move a few buckets around to keep all clearances exactly same) but aftermarket cams tend to be very much in spec compared to rev-ups and stock from my experience with BC, Kelford, Tomei, Cosworth and real JWTs.
-i like to keep the timing chains lying in a container with some oil so it does not dry/rust
how are you going to tackle the valve springs?
taking the heads off? or compressed air in the cyl?
you've got a nice area and engine stand to work with, get a couple of Bed Bath Beyond plastic containers to hold all parts and keep it all organized, and put a large clear plastic bag over the engine to keep dirt out, oil in, and the smell from stinking up the garage.
DO check out the haltech as it is MUCH better that the EU (have EU since 07 but I have 3.0L timing, so my options were limited)
Good luck = it's gonna be great when it's all done and tuned
believe me hard work pays offMan, do I appreciate all of your advice above. After I look up the part numbers in FAST, I will head to my local Nissan part counter to order:
-Rev-up oil pump (from the 350z rev-up engines I assume)
- rear main seal
- quarter moon shaped seals (x2)
- oil pump o-rings (x2)
- main chain tentioner
I'll take a look at the ARP rod bolts but I wasn't planning on removing the heads. I've been vigilant about removing all of the excess RTV from mating surfaces and bolt holes (dang stuff is aggrivating). I am planning on checking the cold lash and moving buckets around as needed (or order the correct thickness sizes, per the FSM). As soon as the timing chain came off, it went in a bag. I'll steal some of my wife's plastic containers and drop it in with some oil. I bought the valve spring removal part from JWT to assist in pulling out the valve springs. I am planning on pressurizing the combustion chamber to 71 psi (per the FSM) to keep the valves from droping. I've temporarily taken over the garage from my wife's Armada while I work on the engine. Normally it stays covered in plastic over in the corner.
Regarding the Haltech Z unit, I do like it. But it is cost prohibitive at this time. I already have a used GEMU, and made a PnP harness for it into my stock wiring. If anything is wrong, I can pull it out, and plug up the factory wiring. I am connectorizing everything to make it easy.
Again, thank you for the advice. Any more would certainly be appreciated. I'll certainly be pinging you for GEMU advice.
02-28-2012, 04:49 PM
#20
I would only do them if I was going to go all out on a head. This is part of the reason a fully built head costs 3-5k.
24 buckets at $30 each new = $720 to gain what 5-8whp if you are lucky? That is like $100-$150 a horsepower.
The NA road is an expensive and lonely road especially with a 400whp turbo kit selling for $3500 in the classifieds w/ extras...I mean a 14k stroked out 4.1l only makes like 340-350whp.
Last edited by FastnFuriousMax; 02-28-2012 at 05:12 PM.
02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
#21
They are DLC coated to reduce friction up to 40% 4 buckets per cylinder total of 24. They started using the coating in the HR engines. Less friction would mean less heat buildup in the engine, and also less energy lost making heat...I think Cosworth reccomend them and uses them in all of their DE head builds.
I would only do them if I was going to go all out on a head. This is part of the reason a fully built head costs 3-5k.
24 buckets at $30 each new = $720 to gain what 5-8whp if you are lucky? That is like $100-$150 a horsepower.
The NA road is an expensive and lonely road especially with a 400whp turbo kit selling for $3500 in the classifieds w/ extras.
I would only do them if I was going to go all out on a head. This is part of the reason a fully built head costs 3-5k.
24 buckets at $30 each new = $720 to gain what 5-8whp if you are lucky? That is like $100-$150 a horsepower.
The NA road is an expensive and lonely road especially with a 400whp turbo kit selling for $3500 in the classifieds w/ extras.
Very true!
I bought a set of HR loaded heads, with low miles, so im hoping to use that stuff one day!
Got 2 heads for less then a set of new hr buckets
02-28-2012, 06:02 PM
#22
02-29-2012, 08:14 AM
#23
DLC lifters - I got mine from Courtesy Nissan on-line for about $18.50 each - but that's been at least a year ago. I think they're a great idea for new cams or stronger valve springs - along with real break-in oil with all the additives.
03-01-2012, 09:11 PM
#26
03-02-2012, 04:49 PM
#28
Nice looking build so far 6spdHayes! Your timing cover has two oil channels mine only has one.
sorry, I did a search and I can't find answers..
cold lash of cams...is that where it says that the acceptable COLD range on Exhaust is .011-.015" and Intake is .010-.013"?
What if the exhaust is a bit tight (.009") will that matter much? And do ALL the valves need IDENTICAL clearance?
sorry, I did a search and I can't find answers..
cold lash of cams...is that where it says that the acceptable COLD range on Exhaust is .011-.015" and Intake is .010-.013"?
What if the exhaust is a bit tight (.009") will that matter much? And do ALL the valves need IDENTICAL clearance?
06-10-2016, 09:25 PM
#29
Engine is done! Yeah I know, first pictures were posted 2-27-2012. After last picture was posted, the engine was wrapped up in plastic as is, and sat in storage till November 2015. Finished building it up Nov 2015-May 2016. Drove car with new engine to work on May 31st. I have documented the build throughout so you will be seeing an influx of pictures coming soon.
Highlights are: HR Valve Springs (double shimmed), HR Head Gaskets (and block coolant passage modified), Juke (MR16DDT) Head Bolts (and block modified to accept), REV UP oil pump, ARP Rod Bolts, new rear main seal, Deluboz Cams, and NISMO Thermostat.
Highlights are: HR Valve Springs (double shimmed), HR Head Gaskets (and block coolant passage modified), Juke (MR16DDT) Head Bolts (and block modified to accept), REV UP oil pump, ARP Rod Bolts, new rear main seal, Deluboz Cams, and NISMO Thermostat.
06-14-2016, 03:35 PM
#30
The reason for the 4 year 3 month gap is, honestly, I was a tad intimidated by the build. Well that and I was building a house. Once I broke down and tore a 6 speed transmission apart, put it back together with different guts and successfully drove it 20k miles or more, I was confident I could tear the motor all the way down and build it back up.
If you read my transmission thread, I followed the same method with this build: DOCUMENT EVERYTHING (written and pictures).
Part Sorting & Identification
Oil Pan Removed
Oil Pan Detail
Oil Pan Bolts
If you read my transmission thread, I followed the same method with this build: DOCUMENT EVERYTHING (written and pictures).
Part Sorting & Identification
Oil Pan Removed
Oil Pan Detail
Oil Pan Bolts
06-14-2016, 03:43 PM
#36
Deluboz Slot Modification
Had to take a carbide Dremel tool to the slots on the Deluboz Cams to get the pin on the backside of the Intake Cam Sprocket to fit well.
Block Cooling Chamber Mod for HR Headgaskets
Head Bolt Tapping for Juke (MR16DDT) Headbolts
The Juke Headbolts are several threads longer than the stock VQ35DE Headbolts. You will have to tap all of the headbolt threads deeper with a bottoming tap. I purchased the tap from Enco.
Had to take a carbide Dremel tool to the slots on the Deluboz Cams to get the pin on the backside of the Intake Cam Sprocket to fit well.
Block Cooling Chamber Mod for HR Headgaskets
Head Bolt Tapping for Juke (MR16DDT) Headbolts
The Juke Headbolts are several threads longer than the stock VQ35DE Headbolts. You will have to tap all of the headbolt threads deeper with a bottoming tap. I purchased the tap from Enco.
