TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Looking for opinions from people who have done the 4.133 final drive 6sp gearbox swap into their 5.5gen.

If you guys could change anything about gears 2-4 within a 4.133 finaldrive gearbox, what would it be? Why? Ex: make 2nd gear taller? Make 3rd taller? 4th shorter?

I recently picked up a 2006 6sp hlsd gearbox to swap into my 5.5gen. Wanting to keep the nice low rpm cruising gear like the 5.5 gearbox, I'm going with a .54 6th gear. Also going with a .733 5th gear so the shifting difference isn't so substantial between 5th & 6th (per SR20DEN). I ordered them about 6 weeks ago and they should be arriving in the next month or so.

Finding them was quite a chore....hours so many hours..... but I won't go into all that lol. These threads were super helpful, many thanks to those who posted with all the info:
https://maxima.org/forums/all-motor/...lick-here.html
https://maxima.org/forums/all-motor/373331-mfa60.html

It did get me thinking, since I'll have to crack open the gearbox to install the new 5th & 6th, why not customize everything and space out the gears nice and even? For example I really prefer how 3rd and 4th gear feel in a 5sp (although I hate how close 5th is to 4th) compared to a 5.5gen. I don't like the short 3rd in a 5.5gen, which will feel even shorter on the 6th gen I presume.

Probably obvious but I not going to change the 4.133 final drive. What gear ratios would you guys suggest to space things out perfectly and still keep the gearing in the sweet spot?

I've been researching and have found a few interchangeable options for the RS6F51H gearbox.

What about this setup?
Stock to proposed:
1st Gear Ratio 3.153
2nd Gear Ratio 1.944 (1.842 ?)
3rd Gear Ratio 1.392 (1.296 ?)
4th Gear Ratio 1.055 (.947 ?)
5th Gear Ratio 0.809 (.733 done)
6th Gear Ratio 0.63 (.54 done)

This setup would lengthen gears 2-4, but with the shorter final drive it should still allow for cycling through the gears faster, yes? Or maybe I should just leave 2-4 as is and not change anything? I've never driven the 4.133 final drive......if you have, lmk what you think.



As a reference these are the interchangeable options I've found:
'02 Sentra se-r 5-speed
2nd 1.842
3rd 1.258
4th 0.947

Qashqai 2.0 M1D - Diesel
3rd - 1.322
4th- 0.947

X-Trail 5-speed
3rd = 1.258
4th = 0.947

Delta - 5-Speed / MFA60 (GK Tiburon V6)
3rd = 1.296
4th = 0.943

Delta - 6-Speed / MFA60 (GK Tiburon V6)
3rd = 1.333

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

Teemu

I've had some experience with 5spd and 6spd gearboxes, I've swapped Sentra 6spd internals, open diff -> HLSD conversions, rebuilds, etc.

Here's some info to help you along the way:

The way our 5spd and 6spd are made, 1st gear and 2nd gear are cast into the Shaft itself, meaning whatever year/model donor you choose, you have to use those shafts for the whole build, 1st gear 2nd gear and final drive have to correspond, for both MAIN Shaft and INPUT shaft

Gear ratio options to use:

Maxima 02-03
1st 3.153
2nd 1.944
3rd 1.392
4th 1.055
5th .809
6th .630
Rev. 3.002
FD: 3.812
for 04-06 Maxima and 04-06 Sentra spec-v
gear ratios are exactly the same 1st-6th+rev, but
FD: 4.133


Altima 02-05 (5speed, used same parts as the 6spd)
1st 3.153
2nd 1.842
3rd 1.258
4th .947
5th .772
Rev. 2.272
FD: 3.812

02 Sentra spec-v
1st 3.417
2nd 1.944
3rd 1.258 - (X-trail 5spd gearing)
4th .947 - (X-trail 5spd gearing)
5th .773 - (YOUR new 5th gear)
6th .630
Rev. 3.252
FD: 4.429

03 Sentra spec-v
1st 3.153
2nd 1.944
3rd 1.392
4th 1.055
5th .809
6th .673
Rev. 3.002
FD: 4.133

These are the commonly obtainable gearsets (I think I have a spare of each)

I would recommend using a 03-06 specv gearset as donor because they use triple cone synchros to start with.

4.133 FD is very good, it's the sweet spot of quicker acceleration, and still decent MPG with 6th. Since you're changing that 6th to much longer, you're making the gearbox much more versatile for highway cruising with regard to MPG in 6th.


What you have to ask yourself is your driving style: City cruising + Highway cruising + Street and Highway Racing combined.

Ask yourself how/where each gear will benefit you, and you will come up with a winning solution.

Do you want More Shifting (shorter gears),
OR
Do you want to Stay In Gear for a longer time like on the highway (longer gears).


^^^I think this will be key in deciding your 3rd and 4th gear ratios, as those gears put you to about 125mph+

Personally I don't use 4th that much in a 5spd (unless I'm racing over 100mph)
but with 5th in a 6spd, since 1-4th are plenty for typical acceleration and get you up to (125+) speed in no time, I don't use 5th, because 6th is the REAL MPG saving gear.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for this. Good to get confirmation that I ordered the correct parts for 5th and 6th gear.


Actually Viper the 5th gear I choose was not .773 but the taller .733.

The 6th part #'s were in the thread I linked above, but the 5th gear wasn't in that post so it took me a very long time to find. And even longer to verify they'd both work. Mainly because the x-trail is a Canadian and Aussie car so I had to call around to a bunch of Canadian dealerships to get the proper info. Then actually finding it online because the prices at the dealer were astronomical. Yeah. My work is your gain, so for anyone else wanting these gears, here are the part #'s. Although I haven't received 'em yet so purchase at your own risk.

Nissan X-Trail 5th gear, .733:
Input shaft gear, 32312-8H510
Main shaft gear, 32341-8H510

6th gear, .54:
Input shaft gear, 32331-8H566
Main shaft gear, 32342-8H565

Purchased through:
http://autopartmaster.com/en/


I already purchased a 2006 maxima gearbox. I read 2005/2006 max synchros were the same as the 03-06 specv synchros. Is that incorrect? Of course both are better than the '04 max.


Yes that's where I'm at now and why I'm asking others for their input. My style is a combination of all 3 of those. I already tackled the highway cruising with the 5th & 6th. Curious what you guys who have a gearbox swap feel about gears 2-4 with the shorter 4.133 final drive.


This is what I'm looking for = input on what other ppl find valuable and not valuable.

I really like the longer 3rd in a 5.0gen. 3rd in a 5.5gen feels too short. If I wanted that same feeling in a 5.5gen, what ratio would you suggest? I've found 3 options so far for swapping 3rd:
1.333
1.296
1.258
Is the 1.258 too far away from the stock 1.392?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Ok, I'm officially interested in this thread lol.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

So my question, Viper. For a turbo car, i want long gears not only to stay in the gears longer to take more advantage of the power but this will be a road trip car as well so highway cruising is very important especially when considering keeping those underhood temps low. I have a 5spd and im just wanting for the inevitable kaboom. So i was thinking of using the 02-03 trans and swapping over the HLSD. I have heard however that the +03 specV trans are better at handling high torque apps(the syncros you were talking about?). In your opinion what would be best for a car that is likely going to hovering around the 400wtq mark, with my criteria in mind.

lux97Max

iTrader: (24)

I got 2 spec v 6 speed hlsd transmissions if anyone is interested.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Dude.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Doh. Just got an email from autopartsmaster and my order for the input shaft gear 32331-8H566 was cancelled. So I have to buy another....and the only options are at a higher price. Not a big deal I guess but will add another 3-4 weeks plus another 50 bucks.

Back on topic, anyone else have opinions on how to improve gears 2-4?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I think the final drive would be the best way to improve that. because actually physically changing those gears is going to be EXPENSIVE given the way our transmissions are setup. However if you have the money find the nearest transmission specialist and they will definitely hook you up. This is something i have been looking into as well for the past couple of years, only now are answers coming out about swapping diffs and gears with in the FWD trans

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Yes that would definitely be an option, switching back to the 3.8 final drive. Although the nice thing about the 4.1 is being able to accelerate faster, and switching back to 3.8 negates that.

For me, I'm staying w 4.1. I've already bought the gears and you're right it's expensive so far just for the parts.

I do wonder...... if you put slightly taller gears for 2-4 on a 4.1, if that would make it feel and drive like a 3.8? If that's the case then obviously it's a silly exercise, might as well just change the final drive. But if you'd still cycle through the gears faster.....well then that would be pretty cool.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Three of my four gear orders have shipped.....they are coming from Kiev Ukrane Hard to believe shipping was only like 45 bucks or so.

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

wow, how about that..

coming straight from my home town..

which gear was unavailable the 5th or 6th?

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

Crusher103
I'm in the same exact boat: 3.5L + boost

in most instances, 03+ spec v (4.1FD) + .54 taller 6th is the better combo.
gives a good gear ratio for acceleration (track, street dig, and from a roll) always keeping within powerband 4400-6500 between shifts, and with .54 6th upgrade you have the best MPG gear when NOT using the power. Especially when just driving on road trips and long distances doing 50-75mph gets better with .54+4.1FD over .63+3.8FD..

and If MPG is your only concern then .54 with 3.8FD is the way to go.

are you turbo or SC?
IF SC definitely 4.1; IF turbo and depending on your power/setup 3.8 could be better to stay within boost longer/harder.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Turbo, thats the only way i could get 400wtq lol, I'm VQ35"HR" with a 62mm. Long journeys will happen in this car so MPG is the major concern and it has so much power that longer gears would be the business especially for traction. But if i can just swap in the 6th gear plus the HLSD i think i have found a plan.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Oh cool! Yeah it was 6th gear, .54: Input shaft gear, 32331-8H566 that was cancelled. So far not a big deal, I just had to order another one. At a higher price of course. So that one should be a few weeks more of a wait.

It's pretty weird ordering this stuff from international websites. My first time doing it......a lot of stuff is in foreign languages..... it took some courage to use my credit card lol. Instantly got the "you've just spent X dollars here, did you mean to do that?" text messages each time I put $$ in the account.

This is helpful as eventually I'd like to go turbo as well. I don't have HR like you (which is awesome), but my motor is still less than 70k and no oil consumption or compression issues, so I'm thinking it's still a good candidate for turbo.

Back to gearing, your post is another reason why I'm thinking of making every gear just slightly taller. I spoke to a dealership Friday and I'm thinking the gearing below would be nice for gears 2-4.

Altima VQ 02-05 & '02 Sentra se-r
2nd 1.842
3rd 1.258
4th .947

I got part #'s for input shaft and main shaft for 3rd and 4th, but for 2nd they could only find the main shaft part #. They couldn't find the input shaft #. They think it's maybe because 2nd isn't sold as it's own gear or something......perhaps it's actually part of the shaft itself? Anyone know this?

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Dang man you already answered my question and I missed it the first time through. Thanks for posting this. I've been trying to get this question answered for a while now. Called a bunch of dealerships and transmission shops and no one knew the answer because the 2nd gear part # wasn't showing up in the fsm diagrams.

So there is no way to change only 2nd gear within a RS6F51x gearbox? If I change 2nd, I have to swap the entire MAIN and INPUT shafts (which would obviously include 1st gear as well)? Am I understanding that correctly?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Ok so let me see if i understand this. Understanding that 3rd gear is usually the weak point in these FWD transmissions. Since I want the 3.8FD i'll start with the 02-03 open diff 6spd:

Buy an +03 spec V trans.
Swap in HLSD
Swap in 3rd, 4th, 5th gear for those stronger syncros
add the .54 6th gear

Transmission done?

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

Yeah unfortunately that's the only limitation.

MAIN shaft + INPUT shaft + DIFF have to match

as the Reverse, 1st and 2nd, and the matching DIFF gears

all have different # of teeth due to different ratios.

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

well.......

if you're going to do all that work.. it would be worthwhile to cryo and shotpeen the stock gears before putting them back in, also buy new synchros for 2nd and 3rd as those will be stressed a lot and a used trans will have them in less than NEW condition (unless you find a 5K mile spec-v donor trans)

I also run a little bit of redline shockproof HDuty gear oil as an additive to MT90/Amsoil.. it really sticks to gears/synchros nicely and adds an additional layer of viscocity for racing/mashing gears

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

So your goal is hlsd, stronger synchros, 3.8fd, and .54 6th gear. If that's correct, then how about this:

A spec V trans would already have hlsd, gears 1-5 (because they're the same as a stock 02-03), and the stronger synchros. So no need to swap in all of those parts. Find a specV and you'd only have to swap in the .54 6th gear and the 3.8 final drive.

Not sure if that's correct but I think that would work.(?)

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

unfortunately that will NOT work as the Input Shaft and Main Shaft have to match the complementary gears for 1-6+ reverse, and the same with Input shaft (with main shaft) and the Differential with the 4.1 FD also have to match complementary FD gears

02-03 with 3.8FD has 61/16 teeth on final drive gear/shaft pinion
04-06 with 4.1FD has 62/15 teeth on final drive gear/shaft pinion

simply putting a 4.1FD with 62 teeth into a 16 teeth shaft will bind and rub the gears, due to incorrect spacing, as there is one extra tooth

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

So for Crusher's goals, he would need to swap in the synchros too, correct? Only swapping gears won't get you the better synchros?

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

All this is so confusing lol

Why not just go with a 5 speed with a full Par Gearset? From what I understand this will be an indestructible 5 speed transmission especially built to handle boost.


If my 97 auto goes thats the route I'll be taking. Im in the process of fully built 3.5 on stock timing SCrgd. I have the VB upgrade, HS torque converter, Tranny cooler plus AEM gauge to monitor temp. Im running Nistune and it will be tuned By Chris Miller when its ready to be dynoed.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

The price.

-An 02-03 open diff 6spd goes for around $300 around here
-a SpecV HLSD 6spd also goes for $300.
-Plus a 6th gear, overdrive. Around town torque with the 3.5 is not an issue and i would like to keep my RPMs as low as possible around town and on the highway

The internals on the 6spd has more beef on it then the 5spd transmission. So far they have been known to hold up 450wtq reliably, in street applications. Drag racing and track abuse i dont know the figures.

From what i hear, the spec V trans with the 4.1FD is difficult to pop you can really thrash that transmission to break it. It has something to do with that FD to why that transmission can take some abuse.

Also with the PAR gear set you can only swap 3rd and 4th to the PAR gears.(only 3rd gen VE transmission can fully swap, the 4th gen 5spd is different internally from the 3rd gen) So its not a full swap now if your goal is to just strengthen 3rd gear and 4th gear, there you go your done but if you want strengthen the whole transmission.....out of luck. Another thing i had mentioned but we have not discussed is strengthening the case. Because the case flexing puts unnecessary force on the transmission internals through changing the spacing of the gears, less surface area contact. I believe that is usually the downfall of the 5spd which its been documented the transmission cases flex and give way in the FWD SR community(they also swap to the 6spd for strength). Since guys here are not as serious about racing like those B13/14 guys why dont hear much about it but the transmissions internally are almost identical with the bolt pattern bellhousing/clutch plate being the main difference.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

I know if those 6spds are boosted and abused they will break, Ive talked to a few guys that have damaged their 6spd even not boosted.

Yes a Par Gearset will cost more but I would rather do it one time and spend the money and be done with it, especially with my engine build and power ill be putting out. They have an entire PAR gearset for the 4th gen last i checked. But yea most opt for 3rd and 4th since those are the weak points.

Im hoping my Auto tranny wont fail anytime soon though since Im dropping a pretty penny getting the current work done on it.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I know of people who have also broken 6spds with no boost. Mostly drag racing or just being complete idiots with their transmissions. Anything will break if you misuse it.

Since i plan on just using this as a weekend/cruising car, as long as it can put up with high torque for short burst is what im really concerned about, most of the time i will baby it, rolling into the throttle, no harsh shifts, no launches. Drag racing is not even in the picture for me, i'll leave all of that to speculation among my friends lol. So a 6spd transmission with shot peening and cryo treating will likely be perfect for my purposes.

The autos however with some money put into them are stronger than the MT transmissions. so provided your doing the right things, the auto should not fail on you because of lack of strength. However if you wanted a MT transmission i dont know why you would spend money the auto just use that to buy the MT trans and all necessary swap parts.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

What's confusing? All we're talking about is switching gears within a gearbox.

I only started the thread to get people's opinions on gears 2-4 within a 4.1fd gearbox and if they'd change anything about them.

Cool you posted that, I'd never heard of them before. Yikes though have you seen the prices on the par gearsets? Those are racing specific gearsets according to the website and would cost more than the entire car. A bit overkill for a 15 yr old max.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

Im not familiar with gear ratios and how exactly they work but I get the concept of it some what.. Ive never owned a MT before so I never looked into it besides the Par Gear set. I owned my Maxima since new and its the only car Ive ever had lol so the time and money I put into it is well worth it to me.

and Ive dropped a lot of money on this car over the time ive had it hell... my Big break kit costs more than the car lol but you cant all that power and not be able to stop

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Yeah that's true there are a lot of 3rd party items that now that cost as much as the car itself.....a full cattman system comes to mind.

Props on the sweet AV I loved that show

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

5th gear and part of 6th gear arrived. Counted teeth on 5th and works out to .733 so that's nice. The other 6th gear is reordered and is leaving Ukraine soon apparently.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

Looking good. Are you building the gear box yourself?

Thanks! Defender of the Universe!

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

I'd like to.....that would be my preference. Of course I'd like to completely restore the body on my maxima too but that's never gonna happen. Option 2 is to do it together w a friend who knows transmissions pretty well. Option 3 is take it somewhere and have it done quickly.