I made a loop at each end and joined them together at the bottom. It is recommended to use 3 clips at each end and make sure the live wire is in the saddle. That URL shows the correct way to install them.

I see. Making the loops and connecting them is the safest way to go instead of just routing the wire around and joining them together. It will be easy for them to slip out then.

Thanks for all your help. I know it's not easy to answer all these dumb questions. :)

Alright. I have my struts removed from the car and I've had to change my original plans.

This is what my struts look like:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...0Stock%201.JPG

I was going to wrap the cable around the outside and back through the inside of the spring. But I don't like the clamps touching the spring. I was going to do that for each side of the spring.
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...utside%202.JPG

My next idea was to use an eyebolt on the top and bottom perches inside the spring. But I will have no way to snug everything up once the car is on the ground. So I am thinking of putting an eye bolt on the top perch inside the spring, then run the cable only on the inside of the spring.
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...eye-bolt-3.JPG

Then I can route the cable through a hole in the bottom perch and connect the two cables from each side together on the bottom of the bottom perch. That way, I can snug it up once the car is on the ground.
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...bottom%204.JPG

I was hoping that I could just loop the cable around the top of the top perch, but the strut insulator gets in the way.
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...%20top%205.JPG

What do you think Jim? Did you do your setup differently?

A pic of the top of the top perch with insulator in place:

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...r%20on%206.JPG

Man, that's a lot of work to hold the front end down. I just set the Illumina adjustable struts to "5" and there is no motion on launch.

???

You're lucky to have adjustable struts for your car that are easy to adjust. I have adjustable Konis, but you have to remove the strut in order to make adjustments. Plus, I'm looking to go overboard to prevent front end rise.

Also, it only takes me 10-15 minutes to have the front strut assembly removed. It's figuring out how to configuring this cable that is taking all the time.

You have the power in order to do 1.7 60's. It's either your suspension and/or track prep that's keeping you in the 1.9s. You definitely have the slicks for it.

Also, today, I got a ratchet strap and connected one end on my AC Compressor Bracket on the block and the other end to my front right anchor bracket. I got that thing pretty dang tight right now. That, along with PU mounts should keep this motor from moving at all. I also have a piece of metal I fabbed up that connects the top of my LH motor mount to the bottom of the mount to prevent any excessive movement.

Aaron mine are on an old set of coilovers so much more room to string the cable with the small springs. The coilovers were given to me. I did have a set of Tokico Illumina's on my 2k2 but these with the cable are superior. For next year I am going to preload them some. This was my first attempt.

http://jime.homeip.net/maximase/Strut.jpg

Some people think RWD is superior and maybe it is but a good FWD will give them a run for their money.

Here is an example of RWD weight transfer.

http://jime.homeip.net/maximase/501.jpg
http://jime.homeip.net/maximase/502.jpg
http://jime.homeip.net/maximase/503.jpg
http://jime.homeip.net/maximase/505.jpg

Interesting - do you feel that you get a lot of motor movement? I've never checked that - never knew it mattered... I figured that if there was movement, it would be once, at launch, then the motor would stay torqued until power was released. Which way does it move? I can't visualize your strap approach.. My guess is that the top of the left bank would move back against the rear mount, but .... ???

My 60'? yeah, I spun a lot on launch, and could never crack the 1.9 barrier. Close, but no prize... I'm probably doing something wrong, but with no videos I don't know what. Heck, sometimes the car would slide around on the track at launch. Well, I've got these 15x12 Hoosier slicks mounted on MT ET Drag lightweight wheels to try out on the 3.5. Bet those don't hold it either.

Those Illuminas work real well. I've got only one video of a launch where you could see the front of my car, and I don't see any monkey-motion in the suspension.

This was me doing a COBRA Mustang. Just enough nitrous for the job. Heh.
http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...AndMustang.flv

Gave my wife and grandson something to do that day.....

Thank you for that picture. You answered all my questions.

Tomorrow, I am going to get some 1/8" cable instead of the 3/32" I got already. My first design utilized four lengths of 3/32" cable. But since I am going to only use two vertical runs of cable, I am going to upgrade to 1/8" thick cable which is got a Working Load Limit of 480lbs I think. WLL is 20% of the minimum breaking strength. This will definitely work since I've used 175lb tensile strength zip ties with success for over a year. But I must have had at least 8 vertical runs of that zip ties and that helped disperse the load a lot. I estimate if I engineer the cable and clamps to withstand 1500-2000lb forces, it will be overengineered, which is what I like.

But RWD is definitely superior... but as you said, a properly setup FWD drag car can definitely cut some 1.6-1.7 60 foots without a goofy wheelie bar! But a properly setup RWD suspension can pull the front tires off the ground, cut a 1.4-1.5 60', but still have the same trap speed as you do.

Thanks again for the pics. I could still possibly loop the cable over the top like you did. It doesn't need to be balanced since the spring perches are bolted in. The spring won't kick to the side or anything. All that matters is if the perches rise or not. I am going to take another look at it tomorrow.

Not to be difficult, but I really doubt that, you probably have a lot of front end lift with that suspension. When you tighten the Illuminas you're not affecting the springs, just the amount of dampening. Any compression or relaxation in the spring will still occur, but the shock dampens out the resulting oscillation quicker. Try doing a close up movie/string of pics in burst mode etc, I'm pretty sure you'll have front end lift. It's not usually something that's easy to detect inside the car, you really have to watch it from outside.

If I still have issues even on a coilover setup with zip tied springs, then I'm almost certain you will have some lift. I know I couldn't really tell mine easily in-car until I started watching close up/slow motion video of my launches taken at the starting line.

Hmm.. good pics from Jim, but that style won't work for me either, my coilover setup is not like that, the perches are just barely bigger than the springs, not sure I want to drill holes in them either... gotta give mine more thought, maybe some kind of collar that screws on the bottom of the shock body below the bottom of the spring perch and maybe ties onto the chassis itself near the top mount or something...

Our transversely mounted engines always twist CW. That means the front valve cover will move upward while in a forward gear. If it's in reverse, it will twist in the opposite direction. So you need to prevent the LH side (the most front side) from lifting up.

Get someone to really hold the brake and give it some gas while in gear. Watch the motor as it twists. Even with PU mounts, it will twist. With old busted mounts, the engine will move by several inches! Scary! But engine movement will hurt traction. In most cases, it results in wheel hop, especially with manual trannies. But in our case, it can result is smooth wheelspin. If you walk around and look closely at the hardcore domestic bracket racers, you might see solid engine mounts plus a torque link. A torque link is usually to clevis rod ends mounted on a thread rod. One is connected to the block and one is connected somewhere on the chasiss. Engine movement is bad.

That was a nice video. It was hard to tell a lot from it but it was a good one.

There is a way to get the tiny 22" MT slicks to do 1.7s. It's not easy, but Jime has proven it to be possible time and time again. My first guess is maybe the 75 shot is a bit too much for the launch. I don't know enough about launching on nitrous yet. But in the next week or so, I hope to hit the track again and I'll try to launch full power with the 50 shot out of the hole with the suspension like I want it. If it still doesn't get me at least low 1.8s, then I'll try spraying nitrous 10 feet after I launch. Or I may even lower it to a 35 shot to get a feel for that. Towards the end of the night, I'm sure I'll throw in the 75 or 100 shot jets and see what happens.

But I'm trying to learn what my launching threshold is for this nitrous for when I do my progressive control in the coming few months.

Jime, do you know how high of a shot you were capable of launching with, without making your 60 foot suffer? I know you had the Maximizer, but I wonder if the 50 shot was too much power to launch straight out of the hole with.

The biggest hole you will have to drill is an 1/8". You might be able to get away with that. I know your perches are really tiny, but maybe you can get it to work. The cable can touch the spring, I just didn't want the clamps touching the spring at all.

I can't wait to get out there and get my car working tomorrow! I'll be sure to post pics of my final setup. I love talking about new stuff on the org! Reminds me of the good ol' days when I first joined.

Here is a shot of the metal torque strap I made a couple months ago. I was surprised it took me no more than 10 minutes to make and install.

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...ap%20Metal.JPG

Here is a shot of the ratchet strap I installed today. Took me much longer to get it just right than the metal strap. lol I haven't had to chance to test drive my car yet.

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...ue%20Strap.JPG

Sure, there's some, but not much. The Illuminas clamp down hard on movement when set tight, but I can't believe an inch or so of lift makes any difference. With lowering springs and small rubber blocks, the springs are under some upwards tension, so lifting is hard.

But I don't travel with company, so no videos. I think it works well. And I switch the Illuminas back to "3" for normal driving - no other drama.
:p

Now that's clever. Just keep the motor mount from compressing backwards with the strap holding it back. I gotta look into that one.
.

Just make sure you make the holes as small as you can. Make the strap fit so tight that you almost have to damage the threads on the bolts to get the strap on. Then I torqued the bolts down and the metal strap bent nicely into place. The tighter you make it, the better.

On another note, I think one inch of front end lift is a very big deal. I'm shooting to have no front end rise at all. The only rise that I should have is the sidewall of my low pressure slicks rising. The only way around that is wheelie bars.

The rubber blocks are in the rear springs right? But not on the front...

I still say it's probably lifting/affecting you more than you think. Are you spinning a lot off the line? :kiss:

I ran Tokico Illuminas with Eibach Pro-Kits for over a year and I observed it first hand on my car. But I don't mean to start an argument, I was just mentioning it FWIW.

Yep that's why I'm mentioning it to him, and based on my experiences with Illuminas/Eibachs I'd bet a fair amount it's more than an inch.

With the ES motor mounts I don't get any significant movement there though.

Yeah. My 2 engine and 2 tranny mounts are filled with PU. They aren't the greatest, but they are WAY better than brand new OEM mounts! I still see my engine moves some when I stall it up in gear. So I might as well try my best to eliminate it. The best way to do that is to make my engine mounts solid. :) I might do that one day. But not any time soon.

Aaron I found a 50 shot was optimal with the 2k2 but I ran the 150 on my 95 before I had the optimizer and still pulled 1.7's. All my 12.1 times were without the maximizer or dual nozzle setups. Not sure why you guys are having a hard time with traction unless your front end is moving more than you think. Like Dan said its hard to tell unless you video and watch in slow motion. That URL I posted earlier mentioned that and that if you are raising more than an inch you are transferring too much weight.

Aaron..
dunno how much fab you want to do with the rears, but I've got a set of GC coilovers that'll fit the VE. (hope none of the 3 gen idiots are reading. :squint: ). I got rid of the springs out of the setup, but you'd want to run different ones anyway over the road race setup I'm using.

I think there's 3-4" of adjustment for the rears. you can pick up a set of 10" 450lb/in springs and jack them sky high for the track, then lower them to the bottom for street driving. will take you just a couple min to adjust the rears while you're changing tires in the back, and it's perfectly safe on the street.

for the fronts, the 3 gen is still limited by safe suspension travel- you just can't lower it much without FUBARING your steering geometry and having crazy bumpsteer. Also remember that your front toe changes with adjustments in ride height. But if you want to lower it enough, coilovers w/ Konis are the best way to go. again I use 450lb/in springs on the front for my road race setup.. you may be able to get away with 550 or 600lb/in in the front if you like to drive around like a honduh ricer, but I'd recommend staying with the 450s.. (plus you're a lot lighter than my car, so 450s on yours would be like 500-550 on mine)

Anyway, with that setup, there's enough adjustment in them that you can surely get some better 60' times and not have to deal with boat rollers and whatnot. simply adjust ride height when you get to the track and you should be good..

Let me know if you're interested in the GCs and we can work something out..


If you still want to use the steel straps as pictured above, try drilling a small hole in the bottom of the spring perch and run the cable through the inside of the spring and out the hole. then mash the springs down and slip a bolt or small shackle through the eye of the cable for the track. when you're done at the track, compress it again to remove tension, remove the bolt/shackle/whatever, then decompress the spring and the cable will pull through the hole and you'll have a 'regular' suspension again. much easier than dealing with those tiny cable clamps all the time.

just an idea... we use stuff like that at work all the time rigging equipment for offshore use.

I put rubber blocks in front and rear - no rear-end squat, and the rear is lifted up a couple of inches with 4 blocks each. I used 2 blocks in the front mostly to change the camber a bit - level out the 12" slicks I was planning on trying - but they also put the lowering springs under some upwards tension. Plus with 23" M&Hs on the front, I had a hard time getting the car up the trailer ramps - the nose was really low, with about 3" ground clearance.

Of course I'm spinning off the line - but launching with a 75-shot and going to the second 75-shot while in first gear has something to do with that. :D That's why I was going to try the 15x12" Hoosiers.

Nothing to argue about - you're obviously quicker off the line than I was, and I never felt my car was hooking up right all last year. Now that the 3.5 is installed, I'll start over.

I was thinking about installing a couple of minature video cameras outside, looking at the wheelwells, so I could really see what was going on, but that got complicated quickly.. If there's a way, I'd like to do it, but that requires two video recorders. ???

We'll see what the 3.5 brings me. Just leaving a stopsign is a rush - I can't leave without spinning the tires hard. It was 31*F this morning, and it started right up. I've been driving it to work this week for show-and-tell and to get used to the power down low. Fun, but it's really different than the 3.0.
.

Ok thanks. So you are saying that you would launch a straight 150 shot immediately out of the hole? If I did that, it would blow the slicks off the rims and I'd spin all the way through 1st gear.

Plus, I have only been to the track ONCE with my nitrous. I didn't do any of the normal track prep I normally do. I was 150 lbs heavier than normal and I didn't have zip ties on the front springs. My suspension was stock, just eibach and Koni. I'll try the 50 shot again, but I'll have my suspension the way I like it this time.

I'm not sure right now if I will need the coilovers. I am going to the track within the next week to test everything out. I really appreciate the offer. I will be sure to let you know.

Also, I'm still not quite sure what setup you are recommending with the metal cable. I can loop it around just like the picture Jime posted. I will probably be able to scrap my eyebolt idea and route it exactly like Jime did, but my cable will all be inside the spring.

I can picture pushing a loop through a small hole in the perch. I can push a loop through each side of the bottom perch and then stick something in the loop to prevent it from slipping through.

But once I route the cable, I plan to leave it in place on the street. I rode around with zip ties for quite a while before I noticed they started to look old, so I cut them off last year.

As for my rear struts, right now, I have 4 rubber blocks in each rear spring. I put some soapy water on everything and hammered one on the top of the spring and one on the bottom. Then I put two more in the middle to take up some slack. I made sure they were evenly spaced so the spring isn't kinked to the side. I easily got an extra 2-3 inches of lift this way.

Aaron, how well did those metal straps work out for you on the motor mounts? I'm assuming they were used with PU mounts? Which mount(s) did you use it on, just the front? Suppose it would help my stock mount(s) at all? :nervous:

^^^ +1 I have filled mounts but would like to try that metal strap.

Well, it didn't make much of a difference since I already have PU mounts that are in great shape. But every little bit counts. If you are on stock mounts, then you should notice more vibration and less engine movement.

I put my strap on the LH engine mount. It's the motor mount closest to the front of the car.

Well what I'm mostly interested in, is it worth it for me to even attempt with stock motor mounts? Like, will it make any noticeable difference do you think? Pure speculation, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

that's what I was trying to say.. just use one cable though instead of the loop.

It should definitely help. A good test is to get someone to hold the brake and give it some gas while in Drive, you will be able to see the motor move under a certain amount of throttle pressure. After you make the metal strap, do the same test and measure how far the motor moves this time under the same amount of throttle.

I'd definitely say it's a very easy 15 minutes mod to do. Just get some of that metal strap from Lowe's and drill the right holes in it. The only reason I used the kind of strap pictured is b/c it's all I had laying around. It's better if you get the strap without the holes. That way you can drill your holes anywhere you need to.

I know what you mean. One beefy cable would be able to do the job I think.

Right now, I have everything routed just like Jime showed in his picture. I am jacking up the bottom of the control arm in order to compress the spring. After I had everything bolted up the way I wanted it, I slowly put tension on the cable to find out it stretches a lot more than I was thinking. So I have to snug it up a bit more. I measured the distance between the two perches when the car was on the ground and my rubber blocks in the rear springs. That's the distance I want to keep, if not a tad lower, once everything is finished.

Well, yesterday I finished everything up and had a good time testing everything out.

1/8" Zinc Coated Cable:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...0Installed.JPG

Rear Blocks installed along with the front compressed slightly with the cable:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...talled%202.JPG

This setup works GREAT. The real test is sticking your head out the window while rolling in reverse going about 5mph and then hit the brakes while watching the wheel well. The front end of the car doesn't move AT ALL. The only rise that may happen is the sidewall of my tires expanding.

Now I had a lot of time to test launching everything once I made sure the cable wasn't going to slip.

If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.

I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps. I hope to test everything at the track next Thursday night when I see 12s!

Thanks for your help Jime.

Interesting - so this is better for you? The only track around me that doesn't have bumps and cracks in the track is Heartland Park in Topeka KS. This sounds like a mod with good and bad issues. Good luck with nitrous - hope you get into the 12s!

I do like your method of moving backwards and hitting the brakes to check for upward movement - that's useful.

When I say the word bump, I'm talking about going through an intersection at WOT. When I hit that large bump and suddenly come off of it, the front struts can't rebound like they should, so the tires break lose.

If your track has bumps like this, it would be pretty dangerous. I know little cracks and tiny bumps don't help traction either, but I am referring to pot holes and huge bumps in the road.

I have tested the launch a few times on a smooth flat street and it's perfect. Traction is definitely improved. My track is very crappy with subtle bumps and cracks too, but nothing that I think will cause my tires to suddenly break lose.

Once you have a plan on how to route the cable, you can do the entire job in only a few hours. I spent countless hours just staring at my struts. lol

Edit: You are good at editing your message just after I quote you. :) But yeah, going in reverse and hitting the brakes seems to put WAY more strain on the front struts and you don't have to go fast either. But, going forward WITH SLICKS might be a different story. But launching with street tires just spins them without the front end rising at all. It's like spinning your tires on a go cart without a suspension.

I read this part of your message:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If the road is smooth, I can see how this will help a lot. But if I'm accelerating through 1st gear without nitrous and if I hit a tiny little bump, the tires break completely lose whereas I would have had decent traction before. So this isn't a mod that is going to help any kind of street traction since there isn't any rebound anymore. But on a smooth track surface, it should help a LOT.

I hit the 75 shot a few times in 1st gear and couldn't get anything to hook up like I could before. So my street traction in a straight line has gone to crap just b/c there are always going to be bumps."
------------------------------------------------------------
and just assumed the worst. "Bumps are bad when you're strapped down" or something like that...

I've done some reading on the subject following stuff in this thread, and others have said that even one inch of travel in the front suspension is BAD. I think a rigid front suspension would be bad when negotiating a track, doing burnouts, and using the return road. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.... I know why my slicks spun - using a combined 150-shot in first gear.

On the bright side, you progressed to using a 75-shot in record time. Great fun, isn't it? And now I'm driving a NA car.... for now. :D

Not to detract from what you're doing and discovering - get on a track and find out what really happens! and tell us about it....

EDIT: I waited 5 minutes before inserting this edit. :D

I always say the proof is in the pudding. Jime is one of the very few people on this forum that is able to do 1.7 60 foots. If he has better luck with the hardcore cables than the zip ties, then I'm definitely going to give it a shot and try to prove it to myself also.

A 150 shot shot in 1st gear will definitely spin them regardless of your suspension. :D You got that right!

Having a suspension such as this on a smooth track surface should be the best setup. It is for the 4th gen Maxima chassis since Jime has 60 foots to back it up. I don't care what bumps I get on the street and the return road at the track. And the burnout doesn't matter. All I care about is launching once my slicks are heated up while at the track. On a smooth street, I do have better traction for sure. But if I hit a small dip in the road, HANG ON to that steering wheel cause the tires are going to spin even if I'm at 40mph!

Now that I can feel subtle bumps easier, I may notice that my local track isn't as smooth as I am thinking. I know it's not a good track, but I just hope it relatively smooth. During my next time out, if I can't do at least 1.8s in the 60 foot, then something is wrong and I may decide to let out the cable a little bit. Jime said his front springs aren't compressed. He just had the cables tight. With me, the distance from the top to the bottom perch is 4.8" stock with Eibach/Koni setup. After the cables were installed, I made that distance 4.5" from top to bottom. So my springs are compressed a little bit more than a 1/4". That may be what's causing me to bounce a little bit after the launch from 20-40mph. Or it could be the sucky street surface I'm on or my tires spinning or hopping.

I have the 100 shot jets already. But I won't put them in until I hit the track with race fuel and feel confident with launching with the 50 and 75 shot. I hope to see 125-150 shot before the end of winter.

Now that I've had more time to test this setup out. I have a few more thoughts.

Like I said earlier, straight line traction is VERY VERY crappy if the road is not flat and smooth.

But I got a chance to do several test launches on a flat and smooth surface comparable to most 1/4 mile tracks I've raced on. Traction is drastically improved! I can now STOMP on the gas and immediately go WOT and only get about a half second of wheelspin on street tires, then I'm off. Without securing the front spring perches, the car would just sit there and spin for probably 2 seconds, then sometimes it would hook up and sometimes it would just go straight to redline.

Whenever traction is going to be crappy b/c of an uneven road surface, the front of the car would bob up and down like a Civic on cut springs. But if the road is smooth, the front end doesn't bob at all.

Earlier today, I stepped on the gas in the low part of 1st gear while in a turn on a bumpy normal street surface and got nothing but inconsistant wheelspin. It's not hopping. But it would spin, then grip about 3 times throughout first gear. It REALLY sucks for street driving! It feels like someone playing with your nitrous switch, shutting it off and on, while at WOT.

So far, this is a GREAT "track only" mod. Like Matt mentioned earlier with sticking the loop through a hole in the lower spring perch, that should be the best setup if you plan on ever going WOT on the street.

I just may rig this up after I get back from the track. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated if I find anything else new.

Update:

I just got back from the track last night and had a chance to test out my new drag suspension.

You can read up on the times I got here:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=544415

But about the locked spring perches... they helped a TON!! I was able to get the 75 shot to hook on the launch one time and get a 1.80 60 foot. After that, the track prep went to crap and I could only get 2.0s while spraying out of the hole with the 75 shot.

Before I tried the 75 shot, I made two passes with the 50 shot first. I did back to back 1.82 60 foots with a 12.95 ET. The 50 shot is easy to get to hook with this suspension.

Without the locked spring perches, the best I could do on the slicks with the 50 shot was 1.97!! So keeping the front end from rising helped out a LOT!

The car didn't bob up and down or anything. Since most track surfaces are somewhat smooth, I think this is the best setup for any 1/4 mile track. I have some videos of the launch doing my 1.8s and my friends said the car doesn't lift at all. Last time, the front end looked like it wanted to come off the ground. :)

Once I get those videos from my friend in the next couple days, I'll be able to see what the car looks like on the launch.