Need some motor mount advice after replacing front mount.....
11-26-2002, 07:41 PM
#1
Need some motor mount advice after replacing front mount.....
94 GXE Auto - 130k
At long last I finally replaced my front motor mount since the car has been shaking my teeth out for the past 6 weeks or so.
I actually struggled with the install, as I rounded off one of the bolts
, and had some difficulty getting good leverage on the bolts to break them, despite the car being jacked up and having a 15 in. breaker bar.
Anyway, the primary thing I noticed is that the top mounting bolt hole on the old mount was 1/4" to 1/2" lower than the new one, which meant fun and games for getting the holes on the new mount to line up properly. I had to un-bolt the front two bolts of the cross-member and then line the bolts up on the front mount, get them tight (not torqued down, re-attach and torque down the front two bolts on the crossmember, and then drop the car and torque down the front mount bolts.
I expected my old mount to be torn or cracked, but sagged would be more accurate in my case. The rubber was quite stiff and inflexible.
I was expecting harmonious bliss, but I still have vibs, though not as bad as before the front mount was replaced. I would say out of 100%, it's about 35% improved. I'm sure this is psychosematic, but the vibs seem further back than they used to be, which is telling me the rear mount needs changing. Any other legitimate possibilities?
From what I've read here, the rear mount is a pain to change. My struggles with the front mount don't exactly give me confidence in doing the rear one. I know the y has to be dropped (Warpspeed Y, no problem there), but I guess my question(s) stems around the following:
What needs to be supported by the jack(s) (I'm assuming tranny and oil pan here)?
Are 2 jacks enough?
Will I be able to drop the rear cross member as I did the front should alignment issues be at stake and leave the front mount alone at the same time?
How difficult would/should breaking the rear mount bolts be with just a breaker bar, penetrating oil, but no real leverage since I'll be parallel to the car and unable to really get good leverage with my body?
How much should/can the engine be jacked up, as I noticed I could jack it up by the oil pan (partial 2x6 wood in between of course) as much as I wanted......
Regarding urethaning the mounts (I didn't do the front one), what litte leverage I was able to force on the front mount to allow the bolts to go through made me wonder how wise urethaning the mounts would be without dropping the cross-member at all....doesn't seem possible to me.
Any comments, opinions, or "you're-a-damn-mechanic-newbie-go-get-it-done-by-someone-with-a-clue-and-quit-being-cheap" insults are welcome.
At long last I finally replaced my front motor mount since the car has been shaking my teeth out for the past 6 weeks or so.
I actually struggled with the install, as I rounded off one of the bolts
, and had some difficulty getting good leverage on the bolts to break them, despite the car being jacked up and having a 15 in. breaker bar.Anyway, the primary thing I noticed is that the top mounting bolt hole on the old mount was 1/4" to 1/2" lower than the new one, which meant fun and games for getting the holes on the new mount to line up properly. I had to un-bolt the front two bolts of the cross-member and then line the bolts up on the front mount, get them tight (not torqued down, re-attach and torque down the front two bolts on the crossmember, and then drop the car and torque down the front mount bolts.
I expected my old mount to be torn or cracked, but sagged would be more accurate in my case. The rubber was quite stiff and inflexible.
I was expecting harmonious bliss, but I still have vibs, though not as bad as before the front mount was replaced. I would say out of 100%, it's about 35% improved. I'm sure this is psychosematic, but the vibs seem further back than they used to be, which is telling me the rear mount needs changing. Any other legitimate possibilities?
From what I've read here, the rear mount is a pain to change. My struggles with the front mount don't exactly give me confidence in doing the rear one. I know the y has to be dropped (Warpspeed Y, no problem there), but I guess my question(s) stems around the following:
What needs to be supported by the jack(s) (I'm assuming tranny and oil pan here)?
Are 2 jacks enough?
Will I be able to drop the rear cross member as I did the front should alignment issues be at stake and leave the front mount alone at the same time?
How difficult would/should breaking the rear mount bolts be with just a breaker bar, penetrating oil, but no real leverage since I'll be parallel to the car and unable to really get good leverage with my body?
How much should/can the engine be jacked up, as I noticed I could jack it up by the oil pan (partial 2x6 wood in between of course) as much as I wanted......
Regarding urethaning the mounts (I didn't do the front one), what litte leverage I was able to force on the front mount to allow the bolts to go through made me wonder how wise urethaning the mounts would be without dropping the cross-member at all....doesn't seem possible to me.
Any comments, opinions, or "you're-a-damn-mechanic-newbie-go-get-it-done-by-someone-with-a-clue-and-quit-being-cheap" insults are welcome.
11-26-2002, 07:51 PM
#2
You should have just changed them both while you were at it. I actually picked up all 4 (2 motor/2 tranny) and will hopefully be doing them next week after the urethane cures 
Honestly i'm going to be feeding off the replies since I have nothing to add other than I'm about to tackle this sh*t too. fun fun fun
Honestly i'm going to be feeding off the replies since I have nothing to add other than I'm about to tackle this sh*t too. fun fun fun
11-26-2002, 09:08 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 704
Support the engine at the crank with a scissor jack and a block of wood to protect the belts. A regular jack would work fine if you're not leaving it supported like so for an extended period of time.
After the engine is supported drop the y-pipe then just drop the whole crossmember with the mounts still connected (this is what I did and it made it pretty easy). Then afterwards you can raise/lower the engine a tad bit as needed to get everything to line up properly.
I also filled mine with urethane and it didnt take me THAT long to get everything lined back up and in place, but I did have to fiddle around with it for a while.
The rear mount btw is a PAIN....mainly because there's no space at all and it's impossible to get leverage. I fashioned a series of breaker bars together and it took all 5'11'' and 155 lbs of me to break it loose. It can certainly be done though seeing as I did it on the rusty northern car 5spd of mine. Of course, be real carefull of rounding them off cuz then you're royally screwed!
And regarding the urethane filled mounts, I cant honestly say I noticed that much of a difference. I think I'm gonna do full on poly.
After the engine is supported drop the y-pipe then just drop the whole crossmember with the mounts still connected (this is what I did and it made it pretty easy). Then afterwards you can raise/lower the engine a tad bit as needed to get everything to line up properly.
I also filled mine with urethane and it didnt take me THAT long to get everything lined back up and in place, but I did have to fiddle around with it for a while.
The rear mount btw is a PAIN....mainly because there's no space at all and it's impossible to get leverage. I fashioned a series of breaker bars together and it took all 5'11'' and 155 lbs of me to break it loose. It can certainly be done though seeing as I did it on the rusty northern car 5spd of mine. Of course, be real carefull of rounding them off cuz then you're royally screwed!
And regarding the urethane filled mounts, I cant honestly say I noticed that much of a difference. I think I'm gonna do full on poly.
11-26-2002, 09:42 PM
#5
Originally posted by Chris91SE
You should have just changed them both while you were at it. I actually picked up all 4 (2 motor/2 tranny) and will hopefully be doing them next week after the urethane cures Honestly i'm going to be feeding off the replies since I have nothing to add other than I'm about to tackle this sh*t too. fun fun fun
You should have just changed them both while you were at it. I actually picked up all 4 (2 motor/2 tranny) and will hopefully be doing them next week after the urethane cures
Honestly i'm going to be feeding off the replies since I have nothing to add other than I'm about to tackle this sh*t too. fun fun fun
) fruity town has any. I have polyurethane coming in on monday and no mounts to fill 
What i was thinking of doing was removing the existing ones, filling them with p/urethane, letting them cure for 2 full weeks and then putting them back, all this time the engine/ tranny being supported. Anyone think this is a good/ bad idea?
11-26-2002, 10:44 PM
#6
Originally posted by lophix
where did you get yur mounts from? no-one in this fruity (i love that word ) fruity town has any. I have polyurethane coming in on monday and no mounts to fill What i was thinking of doing was removing the existing ones, filling them with p/urethane, letting them cure for 2 full weeks and then putting them back, all this time the engine/ tranny being supported. Anyone think this is a good/ bad idea?
where did you get yur mounts from? no-one in this fruity (i love that word
) fruity town has any. I have polyurethane coming in on monday and no mounts to fill What i was thinking of doing was removing the existing ones, filling them with p/urethane, letting them cure for 2 full weeks and then putting them back, all this time the engine/ tranny being supported. Anyone think this is a good/ bad idea?
11-26-2002, 11:11 PM
#8
Bill, as the other guys said.. support the engine by both ends (if possible) and then remove the entire crossmember with the mounts attached.
you'll also have to pull the y- pipe. not too bad there, we've been through that one.
break all the bolts on the mount loose before you pull the crossmember down, otherwise you'll hate yourself in the morning. In this game, a cheater bar is your best friend. what I nad to do was grab onto the sway bar and push on the breaker bar with my feet.. may be a little harder for you, due to the fact you're bigger than me.
once you break all the bolts loose, loosen the one on the engine/mount brackets then drop the whole crossmember with the mounts attached.
change one mount at a time, remembering which way each one faces..
might be easier to stick the mounts back on the car, hanging by the single bolts, then put the crossmember back up there and slide the bolts into the mounts one by one. THEN bolt the crossmember back up to the car and torque all the bolts down to spec (tight as !$)*(%! is about right, as you could see from before).
you'll also have to pull the y- pipe. not too bad there, we've been through that one.
break all the bolts on the mount loose before you pull the crossmember down, otherwise you'll hate yourself in the morning. In this game, a cheater bar is your best friend. what I nad to do was grab onto the sway bar and push on the breaker bar with my feet.. may be a little harder for you, due to the fact you're bigger than me.
once you break all the bolts loose, loosen the one on the engine/mount brackets then drop the whole crossmember with the mounts attached.
change one mount at a time, remembering which way each one faces..
might be easier to stick the mounts back on the car, hanging by the single bolts, then put the crossmember back up there and slide the bolts into the mounts one by one. THEN bolt the crossmember back up to the car and torque all the bolts down to spec (tight as !$)*(%! is about right, as you could see from before).
11-27-2002, 06:30 AM
#9
Originally posted by James12345
The rear mount btw is a PAIN....mainly because there's no space at all and it's impossible to get leverage. I fashioned a series of breaker bars together and it took all 5'11'' and 155 lbs of me to break it loose. It can certainly be done though seeing as I did it on the rusty northern car 5spd of mine. Of course, be real carefull of rounding them off cuz then you're royally screwed!
The rear mount btw is a PAIN....mainly because there's no space at all and it's impossible to get leverage. I fashioned a series of breaker bars together and it took all 5'11'' and 155 lbs of me to break it loose. It can certainly be done though seeing as I did it on the rusty northern car 5spd of mine. Of course, be real carefull of rounding them off cuz then you're royally screwed!
Yeah, the Craftsman Bolt-Off Kit, which takes care of any rounded off bolts, saved my rear end on one of the front mount bolts.
I'm considerably bigger than you, which can be an asset or a liability
. I guess my fear is the vehicle falling on me as I am trying to He-Man the bolts loose. But it's probably an irrational fear.After doing the front mount, I definitely concur with the break the bolts and then drop the cross-member. I was just trying to be cheap and get away with only doing the front one.
The lack of clearance concerns me, as the front mount probably has lots of clearance compared to the rear....
I guess regardless, I will be ordering some urethane and doing both mounts, regardless of whether I install the rear mount myself or just take it to a shop and have it done.
11-27-2002, 06:45 AM
#11
Originally posted by Matt93SE
break all the bolts on the mount loose before you pull the crossmember down, otherwise you'll hate yourself in the morning. In this game, a cheater bar is your best friend. what I nad to do was grab onto the sway bar and push on the breaker bar with my feet.. may be a little harder for you, due to the fact you're bigger than me.
break all the bolts on the mount loose before you pull the crossmember down, otherwise you'll hate yourself in the morning. In this game, a cheater bar is your best friend. what I nad to do was grab onto the sway bar and push on the breaker bar with my feet.. may be a little harder for you, due to the fact you're bigger than me.
What's sad is I can picture you doing that. If I have my orientation correct, wouldn't you be grabbing onto the rear sway bar and trying to break them from the rear of the car? If so, I don't have a RSB....I understand the need for leverage though. Perhaps grabbing on wear the rear wheel well is can get me my leverage.
Also, would using Aero-Kroil at least give me a snowballs chance in hell of breaking them loose?
once you break all the bolts loose, loosen the one on the engine/mount brackets then drop the whole crossmember with the mounts attached.
change one mount at a time, remembering which way each one faces..
might be easier to stick the mounts back on the car, hanging by the single bolts, then put the crossmember back up there and slide the bolts into the mounts one by one. THEN bolt the crossmember back up to the car and torque all the bolts down to spec (tight as !$)*(%! is about right, as you could see from before).
change one mount at a time, remembering which way each one faces..
might be easier to stick the mounts back on the car, hanging by the single bolts, then put the crossmember back up there and slide the bolts into the mounts one by one. THEN bolt the crossmember back up to the car and torque all the bolts down to spec (tight as !$)*(%! is about right, as you could see from before).
Thanks Matt. You repeated this before on the "other" site, but it's down, so I had to be a bit repetitive.
you on your noggin'.
11-27-2002, 09:19 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 704
Originally posted by bill99gxe
I guess I don't understand what supporting it at the crank implies, I was planning on using 2 jacks, one under the oil pan and one under the transmission. Is there another area I should consider?
I guess I don't understand what supporting it at the crank implies, I was planning on using 2 jacks, one under the oil pan and one under the transmission. Is there another area I should consider?
11-27-2002, 09:22 AM
#15
Bill, grab onto the front sway bar, push on the breaker bar with your foot (toward the engine), or go from the other side and hold onto the front bumper and push away, depending on which side of the mount you can get a wrench to stay on.
aerokroil will help I'm sure, but still won't make it easy as your well maintained oil drain plugs.
not to mention every bolt I pulled off your car was a PIA.. I NEVER want to touch that POS again!
aerokroil will help I'm sure, but still won't make it easy as your well maintained oil drain plugs.
not to mention every bolt I pulled off your car was a PIA.. I NEVER want to touch that POS again!
11-27-2002, 09:23 AM
#16
Originally posted by James12345
By crank I mean the pulley on the passenger side of the engine. That's where I've always been told to support the engine. Personally, if I had supported it right under the oil pan in the middle I'm not sure I would've had enough room to wallow around and get those bolts loose.
By crank I mean the pulley on the passenger side of the engine. That's where I've always been told to support the engine. Personally, if I had supported it right under the oil pan in the middle I'm not sure I would've had enough room to wallow around and get those bolts loose.
11-27-2002, 10:19 AM
#17
Originally posted by James12345
By crank I mean the pulley on the passenger side of the engine. That's where I've always been told to support the engine. Personally, if I had supported it right under the oil pan in the middle I'm not sure I would've had enough room to wallow around and get those bolts loose.
By crank I mean the pulley on the passenger side of the engine. That's where I've always been told to support the engine. Personally, if I had supported it right under the oil pan in the middle I'm not sure I would've had enough room to wallow around and get those bolts loose.
11-27-2002, 10:32 AM
#18
Originally posted by Matt93SE
Bill, grab onto the front sway bar, push on the breaker bar with your foot (toward the engine), or go from the other side and hold onto the front bumper and push away, depending on which side of the mount you can get a wrench to stay on.
Bill, grab onto the front sway bar, push on the breaker bar with your foot (toward the engine), or go from the other side and hold onto the front bumper and push away, depending on which side of the mount you can get a wrench to stay on.
Understood.
I wonder if you can remove one of the front tires and the wheel well splash guards and use hella-long 1/2" extensions would allow you to at least use sensible leverage in trying to break off the bolt(s) as ericdwong and SprintMax did on their 4th gen motor mount install? I wonder if that is feasible/possible?
aerokroil will help I'm sure, but still won't make it easy as your well maintained oil drain plugs.
not to mention every bolt I pulled off your car was a PIA.. I NEVER want to touch that POS again!
not to mention every bolt I pulled off your car was a PIA.. I NEVER want to touch that POS again!
Yeah, 2 of the front bolts required a real good tug, but broke easier than most things I've had to remove from that car. However, the one bolt that got rounded need the Craftsman Bolt-Off kit (which I highly recommend you tell someone in your family to get you for Christmas
)
11-27-2002, 10:45 AM
#20
truthfully, you don't even need to support the enging until AFTER you've broken all of those bolts loose. just get the car up on jackstands and pop them all loose, then support the engine and remove the bolts.
Bill, I doubt if there's enough room to get to the mounts like you were talking about. it's pretty high up on the back of the engine. right about the middle of steering rack territory. It's amazing how much crap nissan crammed in that engine bay, and I know other cars are even worse.
Honda's compaction techniques are crazy.
Bill, I doubt if there's enough room to get to the mounts like you were talking about. it's pretty high up on the back of the engine. right about the middle of steering rack territory. It's amazing how much crap nissan crammed in that engine bay, and I know other cars are even worse.
Honda's compaction techniques are crazy.
11-27-2002, 11:32 AM
#21
Originally posted by Matt93SE
truthfully, you don't even need to support the enging until AFTER you've broken all of those bolts loose. just get the car up on jackstands and pop them all loose, then support the engine and remove the bolts.
truthfully, you don't even need to support the enging until AFTER you've broken all of those bolts loose. just get the car up on jackstands and pop them all loose, then support the engine and remove the bolts.
True. I realized that after about the first 10 minutes of the removal process the other day. I guess that resolves doing the jacks beforehand....
Bill, I doubt if there's enough room to get to the mounts like you were talking about. it's pretty high up on the back of the engine. right about the middle of steering rack territory. It's amazing how much crap nissan crammed in that engine bay, and I know other cars are even worse.
I'll poke around and see if it's even possible....too bad it won't be until Monday the 9th at the earliest. I may have to go get the 18" breaker bar if the extra leverage is needed. How high did you jack yours up. I just jacked mine up to the lowest jack stand point for the front mount....may need to go a little higher for the rear mount.
Honda's compaction techniques are crazy.
11-30-2009, 12:50 PM
#24
....... connections? on the rear one on the xmember? that's just wirelooms attached to the mount for the oxygen sensor. just pull the wireloom clips out of the mount and you might not even have to unplug the sensor, tho it's no hassle to unplug it.
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