aw89maxSE

iTrader: (3)

I think you do it from r12 to r134a or something. How do you do it? How much is it for the tools and how much is the freeon that you need and also the tools you need to charge/change it with?

Scope

iTrader: (5)

I think that an approved shop has to do it due to some of the gases that are inside of the A/C compressor.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

"the R12 removal has to be done by a MACS certified tech, but the retrofit and recharge you can do yourself"
-internetautomart

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

well basically the only reason someone wants to convert is because their R12 is gone and it's hot as hell in the car.

basically you have to clean/flush out all the hoses in the system, replace all O-rings, possible switch the rubber lines. you might also need a new compressor since the R134a makes the compressor for R12 to work harder. after all that you can recharge the oil and use R134a and it should be cold again.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

just curious, new compressor = r134a from a 93-94ish maxipad?

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

yes senor gone

aw89maxSE

iTrader: (3)

Where do I get the hardstuff taken care of...like the certified stuff and how much?

Creedence85

There's a product called freeze 12, it only seems available in the US, not for us in Canada, however that won't be a problem for you. I don't know much about it, or how well it works, but it's readily available on Ebay and some parts stores. It's fully compatible with r12, which means you can recharge the system without purging the old r12. With r134a the system has to be purged before hand. Also, r134a will leak in spots where r12 didn't, so even with good hoses and seals, you can get some leaking after a conversion. It's going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than an r134a conversion, like $5-10 per can, so it's worth a try.

broncoguy

One of the guys over on teamnse.com did this on a Stanza recently (freeze12) and it seems to be working well. I am getting ready to do it on my Stanza in the next couple days, so I'll report back.

aw89maxSE

iTrader: (3)

That's sweet!!

Do I need freeon on to put in there or do I just recharge the system with this freeze r12?

broncoguy

Look up "freeze 12" on the net. They have their own mfg site. It says you need to evacuate the system of freon, but if yours is already leaked out, then you probably don't have to worry. The site also says it is completely compatible with all kinds of oil, so you don't have to drain it out first. My system on the Stanza is empty, other than compressor oil, so I am not going ot worry about evacuating it. I will probably try to charge it tonight and see what happens.

maximagxe90

Hi,

would this freeze 12 work with our old r12 system?

do we need to do anything else with the system?

because i don't want to convert my old r12 system to r134a system,

i think the r12 system is still good,

it still cold and freezing when you turn it on,

Scope

iTrader: (5)

It should work for all r12 systems taht needs a recharge. You shouldn't use this if your system is freezing cold anyways.

aw89maxSE

iTrader: (3)

I see this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33543

and I see this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=46094

or this which is both of those together...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=46094

which one(s) are needed for this?

p.s. is there a write-up for recharging this r12 or something in chiltons for it?

broncoguy

I bought a kit from mcaugie007, and it had everything in it that you need. E-mail him, and he can probably help you out. The only thing it didn't have was a pressure gauge, which is pretty important to have.

BUT, if your AC is still cold, why are you wanting to convert? I wouldn't mess with it if it's working....

rcy

Go to www.aircondition.com for loads of info. Check the bulletin board.

Up here in ONtario you HAVE to retrofit to R134 if you do any repair on your system where the R12 is removed. We can't even (legally) get R12 anymore. I'm not sure about the States, but if it's legal, I would recharge with R12. It's more efficient than R134, your system was designed for it, and it's easier for you than changing a bunch of o-rings and hoses.

Alternatively, you could use something like Duracool www.duracool.com which is a hydrocarbon. It's way more effiecient than R134 and slightly more than R12, it leads to lower head pressure in the compressor, and it's ozone friendly. I used it with good results in my old 1988 Max. Interestingly enough, it's illegal in SOME states, but totally unregulated here in Canada. Weird...I can't get R12, you can, you can't get Duracool, I can.

Recharging your system is not as easy as sticking a can or two of R12 in. If it has a low charge, you can top up but should use manifold gauges. If it's mostly empty and air has got into the system, you have to evacuate it using a vacuum pump (200-300 dollars for a good one) to remove all the air (or send nitrogen through the system to burn off the air). Most pros use the vacuum method. If you leave air in it, you're in for a world of trouble. Air does not compress, so the compressor may be damaged, it takes up space the freon should occupy, leading to poor cooling, and it reacts with the oil in the system (especially the oil used in R134 systems) and causes and acid that will eat through the evaporator and other important parts. You also need a good set of manifold gauges to see the vaccum and to make sure it holds so you know there are no leaks, and also to charge the system. If you undercharge, you might get cold air, but damage the compressor (not enough freon to carry the oil). If you overcharge, you risk damaging the compressor from high head pressure, or blowing some part of the system.

It's not rocket science, but if you don't know what your doing you could damage something (like adding R12 as a liquid instead of a gas...it's called 'slugging' the compressor - compressor go boom) or even hurt yourself (like attaching a can of R12 to the high side port instead of the low side port while the system is running - high side pressures can reach upwards of 300psi on some systems - R12 can go boom!). Basically, if you're not comfortable, pay a pro to do it.

Check here for a basic how-to.
http://www.ackits.com/forum/messagev...&threadid=7931

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

you need the freeze 12, hose, can tap, (optional) gauge.

there's no real written document for this since this is a complicated procedure and if you mess up it might cause some injury.

few suggestions:
-make sure there are NO leaks
-make sure there is no dirt in the system (leak(s) = dirt in system)
-make sure your compressor is running ok
-always charge from low side (if you don't know what's the low side i recomment you don't do this procedure)
-charge with the can in the correct positon (some charges as gas...some charges as liquid)
-wear hand/eye/face protection
-very important...make sure you put only enough freon recommended by nissan (there should be a sticker)..too much is bad...so is too little.

good luck.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

i agree with this 100%

no R12 at all..even if you're certified?

rcy

Actually, an ordinary mortal can't get R12 or R134. R12 can still be used for home A/C (installed by a certifed tech I guess), but the last geovernment (Tory) that we had intoduced some new law a few years back basically stating that if the A/C system in a car had to be repaired (not just replacing a switch or something minor but actually evacuating the system) it MUST be retrofitted to R134. So to be more specific, the lowly consumer cannot get R12 anywhere (or R134 for that matter) but I suppose an certified A/C tech can still get R12. Gone are the days (here in Ontario) where you could pick up a can of R12 or R134 at the local auto store and top up the system yourself. It's all in for the sake of the environment, so I suppose I can live with it. This is one reason I topped up my old '88 Max with Duracool.
Eventually, I imagine, R12 will be banned for home A/C as well.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

it's pretty much same in the states. you have to have the EPA certification to purchase whatever is left of the R12.

it's good to have the certification

rcy

Found another how-to.
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/AC/ac_charge.html

yelowd

For the conversion to r134a, does anyone know specifically what compressor to get and the model number? I'd like to do everything and then just take it to the shop for the coolant and oil.

Thanks!

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

it's a little more complicated than that.

read that link rcy posted.

rcy - good stuff man.

yelowd

I read it, which is why I was asking the question about the compressor. Now that I think about it though, it would probably be best to work with the AC repair folks. Ask them what a DIY can do and what compressor is needed and then what they have to do. Save yourself some money that way.

Thanks.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

well the link gives u directions to charge but you get the idea.

you will need to replace the compressor, reciever/drier and probably orifce tube..flush everything out

yelowd

the receiver/dryer? great. I was hoping to get away with just the compressor and some o rings. oh well, que sera sera.

That's probably a good $500 worth of parts and labor then I would guess.

rcy

Dude, I'm still trying to figure out if you have a problem with your A/C or you just want to convert for the sake of converting? If you've blown a compressor or something, you will need to flush the lines, replace receiver dryer and the suction throttle valve (I dont think our year of Maxima uses an orifice tube). I still wouldn't convert to R134, unless you're a real tree hugger, and even then a hydrocarbon is better for the enviroment....

Bill Brasky

iTrader: (2)

Forget the 134a man... R12 > 134a

You'll prolly end up paying more for the entire AC system while converting to 134a than just recharging the R12...

When it comes to AC, don't skimp. "Do the job, big or small, do it right, or not at all" Let certified Techs install the freon and lubricants and whatever parts you'll need (well, you might be able to get away with the parts instalation, but you've got to be careful).

General AC rule of thumb is to replace darn near everything when converting to 134a. Thats what we do in our shop.. condensor, dryer, acumulator, compressor, all lines, and all fittings.

aw89maxSE

iTrader: (3)

Update.....????

...I'll be doing mine shortly.

broncoguy

OK, after a few problems, I am up and running with a re-charge of 134A, not Freeze 12. Swapped my compressor out with one from a 240sx (turns out I didn't need to, but that's another story).
Anyways, I went with the 134A basically because I would have had to mail order the freeze 12, and I was too impatient to wait. The thing to realize about freeze 12 is that it is a blended freon, made up of 80% 134A, and 20% 142B. The 142B is used to help "carry" the mineral oil that is in the R-12 system. Mineral oil is not truly compatible with pure 134A, so it doesn't circulate through the system like it should. So, in reality, freeze 12 is not that different from 134A.
So, long story short, I just charged my system with straight 134A to see if it would work. So far, it seems to be OK, it's cooling pretty well (not as well as R-12) although I just finished it last night and it hasn't yet seen the 97 degree daytime temps here yet.

Be advised that I pretty much violated every accepted rule about converting an R-12 system to a 134A system, so I am not saying this will work for everyone. I tried it, and so far it seems to be working. It may not work for you, and it may not work long for me. We'll see. The freeze 12 should work as well or better then the 134A, since theoretically it moves the lubricant better through the system and makes it more efficient- hence, better cooling (maybe)

Somebody above posted a link to aircondition.com- I spent a lot of time there in the last week or so, and it DOES have a ton of info, and a message board for questions. I would suggest checking it out before you just jump in. Overcharging is a big problem, and so I also suggest you get a refill kit that at least has one of those cheap in-line gauges so you can see where you are.

Also, this was done on a 92 Stanza, not my Max. The max is still running strong on the original compressor (almost 200K) and the original R-12 system.

Sorry this is so long..

tmuscedere

On my car i used the Duracool product and let me tell you I freeze my *** off in the car. The temperature gets down to 40 degrees. That company also sells a product to plug small leaks that are in the system. I didnt use the leak stopper, but I did use the dye to see any leaks that develop in the system. The duracool was 15 bucks canadian and was well worth it.

shvelle

I apologize if this was already answered...
Where can / did you puchase the Duracool recharge kit? (I'm from Canada as well and would like to top-up my system also)
I mean, is this a Napa, or Canadian Tire thing, or do I have to go somewhere more specialized?
Thanks.

tmuscedere

The place that I got it was a store called "2 way automotive" in Amherstburg, Ontario. He also had the stop leak if you need it. I am sure that any automotive "jobber" would have it. You might be able to try someplace like Carquest or Napa. I dont think Canadian Tire has it though.

broncoguy

From what I have read, Duracool is supposed to be very good stuff, but it's not sold in the States..

tmuscedere

Actually yes it is sold in the states lookat www.duracoolusa.com. And it is sold under the other name of Red-tek.

shvelle

Thanks for the response tmuscedere! I'd really like to try this stuff out - by the sounds of it, it's just what I need. A lot off-topic, but......, your car is 'black & silverstone'?? Did you have it painted 2-tone? Do you have any pics? I'd love to see what a 2-tone, black & silver 3rd gen looks like! (been wondering if I should do it myself...

tmuscedere

Sorry, mine isn't two tone what i mean is that I have black 90 maxima and a silver 03 maxima.

shvelle

Ahhh.... My mistake.

broncoguy

you're right- my bad. Must have been one of the others I was thinking of.

rcy

Canadian Tire and Napa don't have it. Go to www.deepfreezeinc.ca and click on the Canadian flag. Then click on 'distribution' and then the Canadian flag again. Scroll down for a list of distributors in Ontario, or try this link http://www.deepfreezeinc.ca/distcan.htm

This stuff is great, although there are a lot of doomsayers regarding HC refrigerants. I personally don't see what all the hoopla is about - it give you lower head pressure, cooler temperatures and is ozone and global warming friendly.