Swapped from AT to MT and car won't start... HELP!
 

Hey everyone,

I just finished up w/the tranny swap on my VE. I know a few of you have done it before and I hope ya can give me a few tips. A FSM is a necessity w/this swap so if ya have one handy ya might wanna grab it. I used the 1994 FSM since my VE is a 94 model year. However, I would assume that not much changes from 92 to 94.

My problem is the starter isn't getting any juice. I go to crank it over and nothin. I wired in the Clutch Interlock Switch and ASCD Clutch Switch into the clutch pedal. So when I crank it the pedal is depressed. Also, I get no reverse lights and no brake lights. So I think the problem lies in my wiring of these switches and probably the Neutral and Reverse Position Switch. The following is a list of my thoughts on possible problems.

(1) Clutch Interlock Switch (E104) - To do this I went to page EL-17 & EL-18 and compared starter system wiring diagrams, AT vs MT, and found a way to make it work. I found the LG/R wire coming out of SMJ-E101-A4. I cut it and connected the side out of the SMJ to the LG/R wire in E104. Then i took the LG/W wire in E104 and connected it to SMJ-E101-A4 that went through the firewall to the Interlock/Inhibitor Relay (E31). From looking at the diagram this should be cake. However, it is a PITA to get at the SMJ. Even when i pulled the LG/R out of the bundle facing the firewall i'm not sure if the wires really go through. Does it wrap around? I don't know. Also, I grabbed the only LG/R I could see in the vicinity of SMJ-E101-A4. Could I have grabbed the wrong one? Possibly the LG/R that goes to the brake light switch? If so, it would explain why i get no brake lights and that the car doesn't start w/the clutch pedal depressed (or not). It still doen't tell me why i get no reverse lights. This leads me to my next hypothesis.

NOTE: I was looking deeper into the FSM and found out that E101 is the side of the SMJ w/the bolt (i.e. the front side from inside the car) and M12 is on the backside. I might have mixed 'em up! I'll look at this again when i get back to the car.

(2) Neutral and Reverse Position Switch (F20) - I used various diagrams to help me figure this out. The back-up lamp diagram on EL-35 was helpful as well as the ECCS and Circuit diagram foldouts in the back. Also, I did a continuity test on the Inhibitor Switch (F21) which is described on AT-154 & 155.

Here is a break down of my wiring...

F20 <-----> F21
B <-----> BR (16 gauge wire from 2 prong connector)
L <-----> R/B (16 gauge wire from 2 prong connector)
L/R <-----> G/B
L/W <-----> R/G

I had a femal side connector for F20 i snatched from the yard which helped me match up colors. I left it at my car and i could get that if it will help. Also, there are 2 wires that are the same between the 8 prong and 2 prong side of connector F21. R/B and BR which i needed. On the 2 prong connector it is 16 gauge and on the 8 pronge side it is 18. All wires on the Neutral and Reverse blah blah are 16 gauge. Should switch these up? EL-116 shows them coming from the 2 prong connector.

Also, I think there is a way to continuity test the N/R switch on the MT. Will this be better @ tellin me what is what? It is on MT-6.

(3) ASCD Clutch Switch (E105) - I don't think this is my problem but ya never know. I got info. for this rewire from the ASCD diagram on EL-116.

ASCD Control Unit ----(LG/R)----> ASCD Cancel Switch ----(L/OR M20 <=> G/W E105)---->ASCD Clutch Switch ----(L/OR)----> Inhibitor Relay

The Inhibitor of a AT becomes the Interlock of the MT since they share the same connector # (E31). However, in the wiring diagram it shows a few differences between the relays. Do I need this relay from a 5spd? Or is the way i reworked it sufficient?

(4) Do i need to mess with the A/T control unit or the ECU(ECCS)?

I know this is a little much. But this is my first time even crackin' open a FSM. I've been pullin my hair apart tryin to figure this out and I'm so close. But to tell ya the truth i'm burnt out. I"m about to give up. Or at least take a break.

Has anyone done a write up on this? If not, when I"m done I'll take a wack at it.

Any and every bit of help will be appreciated.

Matt F.

BTW, I'm goin back to my friends house where I'm workin on the car (It in cental florida). He doesn't have a computer hooked up but he does have 2 lifts in his garage. Also, he was a nissan mechanic for 17 yrs. He knows his shiat.. but wiring isn't his specialty. Besides, this is a custom deal and ya have to make it up as you go along. Anyways, I'll be back to the library in a few hrs to check on the post and see whats up.

Thanx again for any help...

You are making this entirely too hard and confusing

All you need to do to get the car to start is to bypass the shift lock or whatever it is that was mounted on the shifter itself. What I did, I just twisted those three wires together and capped them off so that they were running back into themselves. The wires on my car were black, blue and white I believe.

I did the same thing with the starter inhibitor or whatever it's called. It's one of three or four plugs that were used on the auto tranny that are now not being used. Here is a picture of how I did it.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...3/fb9cdf6e.jpg

See those three wires that are capped together? Do those two things and viola, you've got it started.

As far as the reverse lights, let me know what you come up with there. I never bothered to wire mine up so I dont have reverse or cruise control.

For your brake lights, if you switched the brake pedal to the manual brake pedal, make it is adjusted correctly. I had a problem with mine not activating until it was all the way down to the floor. Just needed to be adjusted correctly

Hey,

Thanx for the useful info. The picture is good too, I see what ya mean. I'll try it as well as the SMJ. BTW, I'm definately trying to make it to hard. I gotta have all the switches workin. I'm a stickler for makin shiat perfect. I probably shoulda tried to fire it before hackin up the wires to rule out any trany problems. Oh well.

As far as the reverse lights... I figured those out in theory. But you know how hard it is to put a theory into practice. If I get everything figured out I'll do a serious write up.

If ya here back from me... I'm still screwed. If not, i fixed the tha beast n I'm on my way to Tallahassee. Take it easy.

Time to get back to work,

Matt

Congrats on the swap fugi...another VE 5spd in the community...hope you figure it out!

damn I am still struggling to get the passenger side axle off and that damn thing won't come off. and here you're taking on an entire tranny swap!!!?!?!? damn. I gotta tip off my hat to all you guys for going thru this project. anyway, sounds like you already got her started and running? if not, and assuming that you got everything hooked up perfect. then all that's left to do is resetting your ecu to train the car again. I just had to do that to my car recently cuz I've beaten the control arm to death to get the whole thing back on vehicle. yeah yeah I know. I forgot to unhook the negative terminal so the car thought she got raped, she putted the abs on. I just cleared all that out of her memory and now she ran fine.

btw, how did you guys take off the passenger side axle? I unscrewed the 3 screws but it won't move. the other alternative I could think off is unscrewing the axle mounting bracket right above the 3 screws but it's hanging so tight up there. I just couldn't reached it.

Hey bvtran,

I hope ya got everything squared away. If not I did the same axle and maybe I can help. First of all, I assume you unbolted the ball joint and the caliper. After that and those 3 bolts you were talkin about you have to pull the hub as far away from the spline as possible while prying on that joint where the 3 bolts are. I had to take a chisle and smack it with a hamer to seperate the sides. By doing this i just mean to push the bolt holes on that coupling (or joint, or whatever the f its called) out of alignment. That will losen it enough so that you can get a mean prybar in there and get it apart. Hopefully, this isn't to late.

Good luck


BTW, I had to leave the car. I came back to tally to touch base w/my girl and all my bills. I got a few other things to wrap up then I'm goin back down. The main thing i wanna do is get this wiring problem worked out.


KLoWnPR109

I'm pretty sure i got the cruise switch to work. When i turn the switch on in the dash it's indicator light comes on (not the one in the cluster). I think this means the circuit is complete and the new ASCD (cruisecontrol) clutch cancel switch is working. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. I drew a little diagram up on my initial post under (3). It was real easy... All you do is re-route the new switch into the other, so that it piggybacks. I'll double check it when i get the chance... when i get my car running that is.


On to that... I now know the true nature of the problem. I need to find a way to pull the wires from my inhibitor switch, which was in the A/T, and complete the circuits (properly) on my netrual safety-reverse position switch. This is on my new MT. Somehow I need to make the safety feature of the P/N switch (AT) complete the circuit in my ignition. These two wires (or one?), on the inhibitor switch, need to go into my netrual safety switch some how. But nissan doesn't have diagrams that explain these connectors completely. Sometimes, it gives the colors and sometimes it doesn't.

Also, I think my brake lights don't work because of the safety feature that requires you to hit the brake before you can move the shift selector (AT). The brake light switch must be wired into the AT control unit somewhere through this leaver. Once I connect the right wire on the inhibitor switch to the NS/R switch badabing. I'll have brake lights and my car will start.

The reverse lights are similar. I need to find the wire for reverse in the inhibitor switch and put it into the new NS/R switch.

I know the first thing i do when i get back will be to test this switch's continuity. A bad switch would mess everything up. Also, I'm gonna reconnect the wire on SMJ-M12-A4 which i thought was SMJ-E101-A4. The way i rigged it was supposed to make the clutch interlock switch work. It may be related to my greater problem of gettin the car started, so i'm gonna just bypass this switch (like it was never there) until I get the car to start.

I'm thinkin the main reason I can't get all this figured out has to do w/the FSM and the fact that info is scattered everywhere. I'm gonna get crackin tomorrow and try again to figure it out.

Again though... HAS ANYONE TRIED THIS? If not, do you know any relevant info on the above switches and wires that could get me rollin'. Once I get this all figured out I'm gonna do the ultimate write up.

Thanks everyone for being so helpful,

Lata

Bump...

I just wanna see if anyone can help me out one more time? CraigB? I know your the wiring guru. If not, I'll try to get at it some more. Has anyone even attempted this?

Somebody help him out...cmon a lot of you guys have done this and he's needs the help, trust me, i know, FREE BUMPZILLA

ok.... your talkin a lot of tech. jargin that im really not up on and i realize this thread is a few days old.. Its amazing, i can convert an automatic to a 5 speed, and a 5 speed to an automatic, but i still don't know shlt about cars. But anyways, I did the swap... however I did a complete swap. from skimming through what you wrote...im starting to think that you did not swap the wiring harness from the 5 spd? It is not required... but IMO a hell of alot easier than cutting and splicing wires together. Sounds like your making it a lot more complicated then it really is. Plug and play. give us an update, would like to hear whats going on