Struts engineering for 3rd gen vs. 4th gen
 

[Posted First in 4th gen forum, thus the syntax...please interpret. Thanks!]

Hello,

I have a 3rd gen Max which I am looking to mod and have done lots of research over time to find out what exact suspension setup I am going to go with. Unfortunately, the setup that I want is only available for the 4th gen Max's and newer. I want the Tokico Adjustable Illuminas or the KYB AGXs. Further more I want to go with a coilover setup to get the best in adjustability for performance and appearance. As I said, unfortunately, these items are not available for my car. So, long story short, do any of you know of the specific differences between the suspension hardware for my car vs. the 4th gen cars, and if so what, if anything, I could do to modify my car and/or the suspension parts to get the 4th gen parts that I want to fit? I will also ask this of the 3rd geners, so please don't feel that I am inappropriately asking here in this forum. I just need to talk to the suspension gurus of both camps here. Thanks a bunch, and Happy New Year!

-Mrkanda ('89 GXE --> Nismo 400R wannabe)
College Park, MD
240-478-2280

Well the rear strut mounting for them uses 2 bolts instead of 3 IIRC so there is one problem. You *might* be able to shoehorn the fronts from a 4th gen, but I think your going to have to figure out something for the rear. I'm not entirely sure though, as I've never tried before.

If you have money to burn and are serious, contact Matt, just dont waste his time.

Couldn't you just get adjustable konis that are made for our car? You could use koni inserts, and weld in some adustable springs making yourself colivers.

I'm no expert on the 3rd gen but if Koni yellows exist then you're all set. Get inserts shortened, and matched with shorter linear springs. Even revalve then to match. You'll have all the performance of coilovers except the height adjusting.

Just get Koni adjustables and the springs of your choice. Most people that get coilovers have no idea what they are doing with them, they just think they are cool.

The reason I don't want to go with Koni reds is because they are not externally adjusteable. Basically, I have the Sonar II Electronically controlled suspension on my car. It is a bit worn out being so old, but I really like the convenience of finger-tip control. I have a family and want the option of having the comfortable touring feel for those long highway trips, but I also want the option of changing the setting to get the taught sport sedan feel for when I am by myself or showing off and want to have some fun. Obviously I could go with factory replacement, but it would cost me an arm and a leg and I think would not give the level of performance on the sports side that an after market setup would. That is why I am asking about the externally (i.e. under the hood...) adjusteable struts like the Tokico Illuminas and KYB AGX's. There should be SOME way to fit them in. Either that or get the respective companies to make them for our cars. Why didn't they, BTW!

I would want the coilovers for the same reason, ride/comfort/looks/performance adjusteability. I want an all-in-one car.

Please comment.

for a fee you can send in your koni reds and have koni change them to be externally adjustable.

front struts for the 4th gen won't work...spring perch is at the wrong spot.

Would you happen to have a estimate on how much that would cost? :gotme:

KONI North America
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I don't think any aftermarket solution would work with the Sonar suspension. Most aftermarket solutions are mechanically adjustable, whereas the sonar suspension is electrically-adjustable. Even if you ported AGXs or Illuminas to a 3rd gen somehow, you'd then have to modify them again to allow them to be controlled by the sonar setup. Just not worth it, IMHO.

shawn... a mod... uh oh... :rofl:

one thing that i've never seen anyone mention on here is that the strut bar from teh 5th gen will bolt to the 3rd gen. if they use a 3 bolt bracket then its quite safe to assume that at the very least the front struts would bolt up to the strut housing. after that you just need to check the way it mounts on the bottom, the travel, and a few other things.

4th gen strut bar works also...again spring perch is wrong...and i'm not going to weld to a gas pressured shock/strut (non konis).

A coil over setup shouldn't have the spring perch issue :squint:

the spring perch isn't the issue. it's the length of the strut. It seems that Nissan used the shortest front MacPherson strut known to man on these cars-- just 12" long. the 4th and 5th gen Max is 14". Altima and Sentra are 13".
Eclipse is 13".. Honda is completely different design so they won't fit.


The rear suspension on our cars is COMPLETELY different from the 4th gen 5th gen Maximas, so nothing will move over there. Independent MacPherson strut on the 3rd gen, transverse link beam axle on the 4th and 5th..

just for those curious
Stock Length 12.125
Compressed length:13
extended length: 18.875
travel 5.875

ok close enough? :D

OK, well, it seems that transfering struts from a 4th or 5th gen max won't work. What about struts for another car (different make and/or model)? Might they be closer to what our cars use? For that matter why the h*** haven't the suspension companies made more for our cars? Is it because the 3rd geners just haven't been vocal enough about it or waved enough money around? I would really like to keep my car, but the performance upgrades are just so scant.

Well, back when these cars came out I am guessing the aftermarket scene wasn't as large as it is today. Also, I doubt many manufacturers want to design and sell products for a car that is 11-16 years old. Buy a newer car if you want more aftermarket options is all I can say really unless you want to do something custom.

i can see where you are going mrkanda, it is much like hotrodding, if it isnt made for your car, get it from another car and make it fit...

I guess first thing to do is search for cars with the same/very similar strut length.

Brian

All the struts that shared the mounting design on the front I could find were longer by at least half an inch.
the closest one on the front was a tercel :nervous:

read my post above.. that'll answer every question that's been asked on what will/won't fit.

I remember there was a lot of talk a while ago about the older (U12?) Stanza, but I'm not sure if anything except the rear suspension is similar or how similar... doesn't Whiteline or somebody make coilovers for it? I also recall someone saying he would figure out how to use Stanza stuff to make this work, but I don't think anyone's heard back from him.

whiteline does not, nor does any other manufacturer that I have talked too.

I did the search a couple days ago, and it was a member named Sudesh talking about this, and saying that Ground Control made them for Stanzas, but I went to their site and couldn't find a listing for it... also Stanza OWNERS seem to have had to made custom coilovers for their cars, not just bought them from GC and used them..... so that sounds like a dead end to me.

Custom springs anyone? :D

I've talked to a few places who will make coilovers if I want, but not enough people will put the money up.
it's mostly talk.

what kind of money are we looking at?

I know Derrick was looking at buy some cefiro suspension a while ago, I have some pics, dont think they ended up being the same though.

Randy had a deal set up with Brian Catts to make them, but not enough people were there to buy. I think it was 15-20 people to start it. Cause they know once they make them they are lucky to get one sell per year.

I stopped talking money with the companies, because as dmontzsta said, they want like 20 prepaid orders before they even think about starting

at about 1000-1500 dollars a kit or so?

depended on who was making them.
didn't ask about externally adjustable coilovers, though they would be killer to have.

You're looking at around $1000 on them, yeah..

even to make your own, you're looking at that much in parts. this stuff ain't cheap.

is that for externally or internally adjusted ones?

Ouch.... 15-20 PRE-PAID orders are going to be a tough sell at $1000 for something new and unproven around here.... no wonder this never got off the ground.

There are so many variables that go along with this too... like if they're just sleeves and springs, or whole assemblies with shocks.... and of course all those little details and technical specs that matter when selecting this stuff.

So, in essence, it's not cost effective. What, then, are my options? It seems that I could just go with the best aftermarket set up out there. I assume that means koni reds with Eibach Pro Kit Springs? What in your opinions are the best set ups?

What were the custom options again? - get the Koni Reds tailored into externally adjustable ones by koni, and what about the coilovers? I know some Volvo enthusiasts were welding threaded sleaves onto strut housings and using coilover springs and collars to make custom coilovers. Would that work for our cars? What would it take? and how strong and reliable would they be?

Thanks,
Mrkanda

(P.S. Starting to look at 5 and 5.5 gens- silver on black SE or AE with manual tranny and the works, except leather)

(P.S.S. Also, found my DREAM car online. Only thing is its in Australia and there's no chance in hell I can bring it over here until I become a multi-millionaire. Here are some picks though. Enjoy!)

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