VEvolution

I'll try to make this as short as possible. I was driving around for a few hours last night, enjoying, and towards the end of the night decided to push it a bit. So Im flooring it, going down the empty street.. And.. Check Engine Light flys on, revs drop to zero! I was like WTF!? I gently start depressing the gas, and slowly start to lose speed.. As Im slowing down all confused, out of nowhere, all of the check engine's friends light up(brake, battery, oil etc.) and are all on till I completely come to a stop at the light and it just dies. I try to start it.. Cranks, but no cigar. I try a few more times, same thing. What really boggled me about this was that I keep the engine well maintained, and there was no warning lights or any weird acting up during driving before she crapped out. No weird sounds. Nothing. Just decided to die while I had her floored. So I get out and start inspecting. Fluids are all good, timing belt is in place, plugs, wires, throttle cable set, etc. All freakin good! What the hell is goin on??? So I let the car cool down a bit. It was not an electrical problem since all accessories were operating in tip top shape without power loss. I even tried that starter test, where you put the headlights on, and crank and if they dim your starter is good etc. You guys know that one. Anyway, shortly after, foolishly I kept trying and trying to crank till Im guessing I burnt out the starter, cause it just decided to stop cranking. Dumb, I know.. But I just could not figure out why it wouldn't start while cranking. So basically Im stranded in the middle of the night for no reason with no warning. I pushed it into a spot with the help of some friends and will tow it tommorrow for furthur investigation. Please guys, what can you come up with? Thanks alot.

My possible results on the matter -

1) My friend had a Chevy Tahoe that did the same exact thing out of nowhere a few yrs back. Problem was.. Fuel Cell/Fuel pump died or some crap like that. Im thinking thats what happened, since the car just felt like it wasn't getting fuel from the tank to start. I don't always do this, but I got myself a nice full tank today, so my moneys on this fuel pump or what ever it's called.

2) Even though the timing belt is in place.... God forbid, but Im thinking maybe the timing belts teeth could have slipped and the engine is done for. Don't know if thats possible though

Edit: I only got 119K on it

Wiking

- I keep a spare plug available to verify spark for such trouble: plug into wire-en and ground the threads, then view for a good spark between electrodes while starting.
- Fuel pump makes noise while working. Hose becomes stiff as pressure rises.

IF Nospark: +12V supply wiring to ign, transistor itself or coil - broken? (Check out schema and jumper wire directly)

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

well first off check for fuel with a pressure tester.
also when was the last time your timing belt was replaced?
you're VERY close now to recommended replacement interval so that's a major worry.
as wiking said also check for spark.

VEvolution

Yeah, the fuel pump does make the usual noise when ignition on, so thats out of the picture, eh? Now about checking for spark, I need to be cranking for that to get a reading? Because the starter is probably dead now, for nothing happens after ignition.

Timing belt was replaced less then 60K ago, I know that for a fact. Plus it looks in very good condition. As for checking for fuel with pressure tester.. The full name of it is "fuel pressure tester" and can it be had at autozone or something for cheap?

Thanks guys.

Wiking

CranKing problem first... Just Charge batt?

Get a spark? Yes, ECU has to be alive and detect cam pos sensor pulse etc etc... = must be cranking.

Pump noise is not enough: somehow make sure u really get gas... Hose stiffness is a simple way to verify.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

even if you have power. try cleaning the battery terminals and the connectors...i used to have a leaky battery and it would **** me off to no end when it would leave me stranded because id get gunk built up on the terminals.

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

alternator maybe......check fule pump fuses and such. might have blown a fuel pump fuse

goon9

iTrader: (13)

When my altenenator went, my check engine light and my e-brake light lit up.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

joe- it's called a fuel pressure tester and Autoblown will "lend" you one for "free".

VEvolution

No need to charge battery. All electrics work good in the car, with no slow down/power loss. I didn't have a cranking problem at first when the car died as you can see from my original post. Only after I tried to start the car about 10-15 times is where it stopped wanting to crank. I think I finished off the starter, thats all. So I can't crank with no starter.

Fuel hose stiffness.. Sorry, but which one is it? Got a pic of it on your VG?

Na man, that can't be it. I would see a warning light that the battery is about to die, or experience any type of power loss if that was the case. The windows and seatbelts would start to slide very slowly, and the interior lights would dim gradually. I did not experience any of this. Also, I got a check engine light. I greatly doubt that would happen due to a low battery. I've had many charging system problems in the past(batt/alty) and all that would happen is the car just dies eventually. In my case, she just crapped out at WOT with no warning at all, instantly. Just cleaned the terminals the other day as a matter of fact.

Can't be the alternator, or I would have had the battery and brake warning lights on flashing bright red at me for half the night before this happened, and I still doubt I would get a check engine light. As for the fuses, I'll have to check them all out, thanks.

Edit: Okay, thanks alot Brian.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

ok let me rephrase....i never had a "symptom" it just wouldnt start.


anyway tap on your starter and try that. otherwise. i dunno

VEvolution

Yeah, Im gonna give the starter a nice knock, see what happens.

aksansai

iTrader: (2)

I don't know if anyone else has specifically focused on this, but you really REALLY needing to see if your cams are aligned properly. At 119K miles, you have had probably two belts. The latest belt installed probably has a bit of mileage on it (if you replaced at 60K, the second belt has 59K).

It is quite possibly when you rev'd it hard that the belt has jumped on the cams or the crank. You need to check the alignment of the belt and rigidity of the belt. While you're at it, you should replace it for good measure as most of the steps that you'll take to align the belt are required to replace it.

Your belt will have to jump by quite a few teeth before your risk piston collision with your valves. But enough teeth jumped will prevent your motor from starting (lack of compression when fire is lit). It would explain the starter moving without turning the motor over. Check it, replace it, and drive it.

Wiking

Give some lithium spray to starter gearbox: loosen screws to pry the endplate ajar.

The FSM tells for Nissan(lol) service ppl to check for hose stiffness in first aid... U can find the hose in the FSM, see Favorite Links.

Its coming up there near firewall, left from brake assy, under yellow "S" is the filter also... [do NOT follow the arrow, its for the russians]

VEvolution

Hey, watch out! I may just be Russian

The hose coming from the filter is the one I need to give a squeeze?

Edit: Very good point. Thats what Im thinking now may have possibly happened. I checked the rigidity/tension of the belt it seems fine, but I fear it may have slipped a few teeth. As for the change interval, the previose owner told me this is the 3rd belt, so Im not really worried about the belt.

Wiking

(Thats no offense to any individual, I just repeat what my [native US] instructors spoke in SD, South Cal: things which point to wrong direction are hoaxes for... - Note: I like lots russian friends of mine, but would not think twice to shoot russian invaders when their army tries to occupy my country and make it burn like chechnya. And they will if they dare, already daily TV news show constantly scandinavia as part of their terror empire... - Btw. For this I liked prez RR...)

Yea, thats it.
Hmmm. Stiff hose is stiff. Try to Bend it: there has to be a difference to a empty hose (Empty: open clamp ign off and gas should gush out?... use rag to collect).

VEvolution

Okay, I just had a breakthrough. I tried to jump start the car just for the hell of it, and the starter came back to life. I guess I just drained the battery enough, for it not to crank last night. So starter is back online. But engine still won't start. All it does is crank. Right back where I started. I looked through everything in the engine bay again in day light this time, and the timing belt really looks good. Really doubt it had anything to do with it. It's nestled safely in place. Im almost 80% sure it's the fuel pump, because it really doesn't seem to be anything else. How can I be sure? Run that "Fuel Pressure Test", right Brian? Oh and Wiking, I tried squeezing and bending that fuel hose you showed me after I tried starting her a few times. Well it feels stiff.. But I don't think anything was running through it. I should unclamp it? If fuel is lurking there, will it be a huge mess if I open it up, or can I keep it at bay with a rag?

I also checked all the fuses, and the fuel pump fuse checked out good.

goon9

iTrader: (13)

Disconect the fule line from the fuel filter. If it spray fuel out from a mass amount of pressure, your pump is probubly ok. I sounds electrical to me if it's not the fuel pump failing.

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

when was the fuel filter last changed....... you can check if the fuel pump is working by, when you change the fuel filter, do the same procedure, pull fuse, crank and run out of gas. disconnect line from filter, drain fuel from filter, mind as well change filter too. then hook back up, put fuse in and crank........if it doesnt start up, disconnect fuse again and pull hoses off of fuel filter, see if there is more fuel in the line. if so your pump should be ok that might work

Wiking

Yea, just unclamp. First: IGN OFF! When u have hose off, take a bottle and then try with ign on and see some pumPing.

Filter might become blocked after fillup 'in a wrong place': as the tanker fills the undrground tanks in any gas station, the soot from the bottom starts to circulate all around, and dirt is pumped to u car. It takes 2days for the soot to settle... Never do fillup if u see a tanker at gas station filling the underground tanks...

FSM gives a good tip: take distr off and rotate distr - ign ON: hear injectors clik. This tells cam sensor, ECU, injectors work...

Then go for the spark tst.

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

my bet would be the filter. well if it has never been changed, id put money on that.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

You can go buy some starting fluid and spray some in the throttle body opening [make sure you open the butterfly before you spray],then try to start it. if it will run for few seconds it might be fp or filter.
If it won't start up then take out a plug out and lay it up on the top of the motor with the wire attached and have a helper start the car and see if you have a spark on the end of plug.

goon9

iTrader: (13)

If you havn't.

Check your ENGINE CONT. fuse.

VEvolution

Okay.. Im stuck. Checked for spark.. Some wires sparked, but some didn't. Im guessing I have spark. Good. Next, disconnected fuel line from engine, and fuel started to pour out. I have fuel. Good.

Still will not start.

All it does is crank, and for some reason I have to keep getting jumped since the battery will not hold a charge for long.

I really do hope it's not the timing belt. The belt that we see from the top on the VG to the left.. Is that the timing belt? Or the accessory? I always thought that was the timing belt, but then I noticed it goes around the alternator. Can I see the timing belt from the top, or it has a cover?

Thanks.

michaels'max

The timing belt is covered. Your looking at your alternator belt. If you have a manual it gives instructions on gaining access to it.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

how many wires sparked?
was it consistently the same wires?
what did the spark look like?

brandon82

OK BUDDY, HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN SINCE YOU CHANGED YOUR TIMING BELT? IF THEY SLIP YOUR ****ED. THE MAXIMAS HAVE INTERFERANCE MOTORS, WHICH MEANS IF YOUR TIMING BELT SLIPS, VALVES DROP FAR INTO PISTON AND PISTON FLIES STRAIT UP AND BENDS THE VALVE, TOTALING YOUR CAR. You need to get in your timing case and check it out, you may have lost a couple teeth on taht belt. Fix your belt and water pump while your in there. The timing belt is behind all your pumps and everything connected to the belt on your left side of the engine, you will see the very top of the timing case but it is alot bigger than it looks from the top. Its a 5.7 hour job for a professional that knows exactly what they are doing, which is about 700$ of labor costs if not more. You need to take the belt off, pumps, and everything (dont totaly disconnect, just get them unbolted from block and set aside) this way you can get to the timing case. Open the case and look to see if you have square or round teeth timing belt which some parts stores wont tell u there are two different kinds depending on the DOHC and the SOHC. if you know htat then that will help u alot to get belt before u start the work. Change the belt, keep everything the way you found it, so dont just tear the belt out, and make sure you got the right belt from store. Put it all back together and try to start it. If your timing belt has slipped dont be supprised if the vavles have ascended into the piston and belt the valvle. This is a very high posability. There is no use of the engine if this happens, if you wanna buy my Max its got 198k on it and brand new radiator alternator all that stuff on it i will sell to ya cheap if you pick it up. btw-the engine is perfect, no problems, if you buy it, you might as well change the timing belt and water pump on it because im not sure when it was changed last. GL bro. brandon_disruptive@yahoo.com

goon9

iTrader: (13)

Crack head.......

brandon82

Haha, im serious bro.

VEvolution

I wasn't getting any spark from the 3 wires in the front row, so I started trying the back.. The person that was giving me the boost to let it crank, had a big emergency and needed to be outa there immediatly, so I was like okay fine let me just try one last one in the back for the hell of it. I pulled it out, touched it on the manifold and I felt a slight clicking vibration as if it was sparking. A friend of mine told me that was spark, so I figured it was spark. I think it would be wise to recheck them. Wanna make sure how its done exactly.. Just like before, take out that long rubber peice with the hole at the tip, attatched to the ignition wire and touch it to the intake manifold while cranking?

Im also gonna look in the FSM on checking out the timing belt, except most of my tools and FSM are trapped in the trunk. Batt's dead, and lock is shot. Waiting on a boost

Yeah thanks. Will do so once I get it outta the trunk.

goon9

iTrader: (13)

I see you edited your post. And don't call me bro.

VEvolution

Im a bit lost guys

vansskaterfreek

iTrader: (14)

maybe a leaky injector, maybe your engine is flooded out......... ya never know, you may wanan check them

brandon82

[QUOTE=Joe Fontinyatz]I wasn't getting any spark from the 3 wires in the front row, so I started trying the back..


There is also a maintinance check box under your passenger seat.....at least i think it carried over from the 80's models. If not then disreguard this post. It can tell you what has problems in your car. You can find more info by searching for ECM(ECU) box or something that pertains to it and it will tell you how to activate and look for which signals (blinks) mean what problems you may have with your car. Im done bothering you. Good Luck

BTW- What makes you so hostile tword me? I dont even know you, and i dont know you either. Should i call you buddy, friend, dude, man, kid, or son? I picked the least offending word to call you.

VEvolution

[QUOTE=brandon82]Don't see nothin under the passenger seat. You mean under the carpet?

BTW - You don't even know me, and don't know me either? I didn't say anything to you before this post. Are you reffering to me, or the other guy?


Or maybe, just maybe... My single overhead cam is not torqued to manufacturer's spec?

Yeah man, I'd love to joke around too, but having your means of transportation takin from you after relying on it with no problem for so long, and having no clue if you will need a new car/engine is not the best time in a guys life.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Joe- what are you lost about?

VEvolution

About what goon and brandon where arguin about on my thread. Anyway, what do you think I should do? Check the timing belt now? It's a long process?

Edit: Take a look at my last post to you on page 1, and let me know if you can suggest anything else. Thanks.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

I'm still fairly certain that your problem lies in the fact that 3 wires aren't sparking.
but the quality of the spark may be lousy too, easy way to check that is to stick a plug in the wire when you pull it out and ground the plug

VEvolution

Would wires just stop sparking in the middle of spirited driving like that, and have the check engine light fly on at me followed by all warning lights on at once and complete shut down?(Im guessing all the warning lights came on because the car threw itself in ignition mode after it shut down doin like 50mph. So when I stopped I was already in ignition.)

I did a tune-up fairly recently(about 5K ago)..

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

I've seen weirder things happen.
I had a car with a direct drive cam. we were driving on the expressway doing 60 and all of the sudden no power. the cam gear lost it's teeth! no warning, car only had 60k on it and was about 10 yrs old.