Parasitic Draw
 

I've been working on this issue since December of 2007...if any of you remember. my '92 GXE has a parasitic draw on the battery. I've ran many tests on the car to narrow the issue down.

I have found that there is a parasitic draw in the "ELECTRON. BATTERY" circuit (used a test light to remove fuses and check the amperage draw)

with this fuse removed, i have come to find that my automatic seatbelts dont work, but the car still fires up and runs. what else runs on this circuit? i would like to get this beast running again.

The original thread for reference---> http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=549498

bump

If u dont know, who cares?

...depends on the parasitic his tory ... e.g. the beast before you = past ... also about the factory wirings which may be like this, clic the link
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/5
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...748507_448.jpg

FSM, EL-9:

Step lamp, trunk room lamp, audio
power antenna, clock, meter(digital)
auto air conditioner, theft warning system
digital touch entry system, A/T control system
automatic seat belt system,
key illumination, air bag system

looks like ill have to go in series with each item and see which one is lighting up the most

I have just started having the same issue in the past month. But I have an odd twist... when I found the source of the drain coming from the (ELECTRON BATT fuse), I removed the fuse (leaving the slot empty overnight) and put in a fresh battery... the car was still dead in the morning.
So if my test light is showing that fuse as the source, and the car is still dead by morning with the fuse removed - where the hell do I go from here?

Fuses have no effect on that, depends only what u have done.

To mention one in hundreds of possibilities:
The alt has ability to play games: now its good, tonight its not... Maybe the rectifier diodes ? leaking intermittently, soot, whatever ...

Soot on diodes [the soot grinded to dust from the brushes] may form semiconductors with their own blondie -logic. See more pics with dust-formed-electronics field patterns at http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/23
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...7_488_full.jpg

Hey Wiking good to see you on here again. Well I had the charging system tested, so the alt (at least on the day tested) was fine.

So you're saying with the fuse removed, it doesn't necessarily cut power from the component causing the drain?

Alt drain can vary a lot; I have measured intermittently changing, 0.05 -->to--> 1.4A drain. I guess you possibly found a fault and corrected it (?) but there somewhere is still smtg else causing intermittent drain. Alt is just a guess that I went through... and even your measurement doesnt prove 'anything'.

...my [that] -word refers to your word, religious = banned here, not fuse. I wont mind more deep off topic discussion, but our moderator does... Pls take no offense but issue in [that] -word is more real & hot than my maxima.

ive checked the dome light, the clock, the glovebox light with no change in draw. i need to check the trunk light, step lamps, and the key illumination.

i had the alternator checked and they said it was "good", but do they check for shorts? this is a rebuilt alternator.

Most probably the alt was good when measured. Is it at the moment?

Disconnect battery and measure. If over 0.05A - problems...

http://carnalus.angelfire.com/sloppy/batposdraw.jpg

this is the postive wire to the battery; i have traced the parasitic draw to this wire (the one pointed to in the picture). it is fairly thick and white in color (is not the white with the small red stripe, it is just plain white).

what is this connected to? it is the source of the drain.
i also detached the alternator and checked...it was still drawing with the alternator detached.

i had the sense to run over this and it is the wire that goes from the fusible link to the cabin/fusebox (the disconnected alternator and was still getting a draw). now if i could find out what on the electron bat. fuse is running it down. i forgot to check the key illumination, audio, and it cant be the antenna because it is disconnected. i guess it could be the automatic seatbelts, but i dont know where to look for that. i think i should pull out the cd player and see what happens. everything else is checking out, though.

Your pic is a noshow.

How much is the drain measured at batt?

First measure at batt, Next at fuses/Fuslible links (near Air Filter box) then over disconnected fuses at cabin.

im using a fluke digital multimeter and im getting very low readings (the numbers jump up and down) in series between the positive terminal and the cable. the lightbulb is the only confirmation of a drain that i have other than letting the car sit for a week and finding the battery dead.
where are the plugins for the automatic seatbelts? if they turn out to be the culprit, ill have to repair the wire or just disable/leave them in the same position forever.

i pulled every fuse (by the air box, under the coolant overflow, the four next to the small fuses in the cabin and the small fuses in the cabin) and the only one that lights up is the 10 amp electron. bat. fuse in the cabin.

this is the picture, but i found that answer in the wiring guide up above.
http://carnalus.angelfire.com/sloppy/batposdraw.jpg

vow, fluke sounds professional. But the jumping... creates questions. When door is open, you should be getting smtg over ONE Amp reading - is it so? (Typical multimeter; one has to swap probe position when going to measure Amps-scale.)

FSM has all the harness connectors listed, location illustrated - its hard confuzean work to read & decode em...

IF 0.2A drain: 24hrs X 0.2A = 4.8A loss per one day.
Seven days X 4.8A = 33.6A has been lost in a week.

IF charge is low, cold weather (=battery input charge capacity is low), short drive cycles - then this is all youve got... and with cold weather 20A reserve wont fire the engine up.

i dont remember what the numbers were, but they werent stable (usually means an overload, which it couldnt be or something would have fried/caught fire or the total opposite- a lack of current). it was in the current position, too. i will try again, though. im hoping my aftermarket stereo is finally taking a toll on the car after 3 years (im on my third battery and third alternator). it has still been more enjoyable and affordable than driving a domestic of the same age, though. i am selling the car to my girlfriend because she needs a reliable car that is worth its price. i would just tell her to remove the fuse everytime she parks it, but her last car locked up because she forgot to put oil in it...im not taking any chances with the maxima.

amperes measure current flow, not a fixed unit of energy. That's what joules are.

multiply the 0.2A by 12v for the battery's voltage, which comes out to be 2.4W, which is 2.4 joules/sec, and multiply that out for a whole week..
144J/min
8.64kJ/hr
207kJ/day
1.45MJ/week

sorry but amps don't just add like that...

ampere is a base unit

i checked everything i could think of that is on that circuit to no avail. im just going to have to open up the wraps of wires and track that one wire down and see if and where it splits off at. there is something on that "electron. bat" fuse that isnt listed and its lighting the bulb up big time.

i was under the impression that 2 amps is perfectly fine while the car is off IF i remember correctly from the first thread. i cant get a stable reading for **** anyway, so ill just have to keep with the bulb testing.

yeah i realized that as soon as i hit submit so i edited it and fixed my error, and added more info too.

i am getting a steady 13mA reading with my radio connected, 10mAwith it disconnected. nothing else is making a change in the amperage. i have noticed that, with the radio plugged in, the amperage burns brighter quicker, but im not sure if it would be enough to constitute a completely (0V) dead battery after two weeks.

i also realized that i messed this experiment up by taking readings with the drivers side door open. even with it open, it reads a steady 50mA. the maximum amperage i recorded, after waiting a minute after closing the door, was with the radio plugged in. it was 92mA and it jumped back down to a steady 13mA again.

calculations say i will suffer 983KJ in a week; would this still constitute a dead battery?

i charged the battery up and threw the car in the garage when it was 40 degrees out a month ago. it started fine for 1.5 weeks. then i had to move the car outside so my brother could get his car in the garage. the temperatures dropped a bit (18 to 30 degrees farenheit), so of course it made it harder on the car. the maxima stayed out for about a week and i checked it and, of course, the engine wasnt turning as fast. i checked it out a week later with the volt meter and it was completely dead. hell, the trunk wouldnt even pop open! it had never been that bad in the past.

You must be kidding? ... My calculation stands, from practical point of view they just do add like that. No joules needed...

Keep it simple: Ohms Law: Volt X Amp = Watt

One may start calculating battery physical properties, its liquid molecular turbulences and whatever rocket science - but from practical point all that is bs.

We are aiming at some practical estimate to have an ide how long things last, not decimal nitpicking which have no real life meaning.

Only after this empirical test fails, you may try to convince using other denominations as Ampere Hours:
12 Watt bulb (=12V x 1A), clip it on and wait. It will drain std 60Ah battery in 60 hours. Do this test, and report here...

Because of this, even japanese say in maxima FSM that 0.05A drain is ok, everything greater is a problem.

Calculation of the existing battery capacity: the power of the battery (in volts) is multiplied by the charge (in ampere-hours). A 12 V battery with 100 Ah therefore has a capacity of 1,200 watt hours (Wh)



For edu, try smtg like these:
http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/.../msg06825.html
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ohmslaw/ohmslaw.html

The battery output is limited 50% when temp falls below freezing. At -40, you get only out 10%...

13mA drain will definitely kill the car batt beyond starting, in two weeks, below freezing point.

24h x 13 = 3.12A per day ---> 14 x 3.12A = 43A 2weeks

Hell is also a term not applicable in measuring frozen cars - its an real eternal place one should never enter.

yes i know Ohms law. But an Amp is a rate of flow, not a fixed unit. So yes you can do calculations with them, but it's not like the longer you go the more amps are wasted.... A .2A drain is a .2A drain is a .2A drain. Kinda like Miles per Gallon. If you do 20 MPG across 2 tanks you don't suddenly have 40MPG. The only unit that makes sense to calculate with here is the joule. It's a bean. You can put them in a jar and store them. When you run out, you're done. 1Ax1V=1J/s

Ampere Hour is an practical, reliable, globally tested, fixed, precise unit when calculating ones batt life. That is why batt manufacturers sell their batteries with this Ah -unit. Theres no need to complicate issues more ...


My edited post above:

Keep it simple: Ohms Law: Volt X Amp = Watt

One may start calculating battery physical properties, its liquid molecular turbulences and whatever rocket science - but from practical point all that is bs.

We are aiming at some practical estimate to have an ide how long things last, not decimal nitpicking which have no real life meaning.

Only after this empirical test fails, you may try to convince using other denominations as Ampere Hours:
12 Watt bulb (=12V x 1A), clip it on and wait. It will drain std 60Ah battery in 60 hours. Do this test, and report here...

Because of this, even japanese say in maxima FSM that 0.05A drain is ok, everything greater is a problem.

Calculation of the existing battery capacity: the power of the battery (in volts) is multiplied by the charge (in ampere-hours). A 12 V battery with 100 Ah therefore has a capacity of 1,200 watt hours (Wh)



For edu, try smtg like these:
http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/.../msg06825.html
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ohmslaw/ohmslaw.html

so, basically, what i am looking at is that something is still draining more than it is supposed to, being that even with the radio disconnected, it is still draining 10mA, which is twice what you listed as an okay drain.

i just need to know what a properly functioning 1992 maxima gxe is supposed to conduct when it is off.

If I am right (?) the 0.05A leak is mentioned as max allowed in the Maxima FSM. At the moment I could not find it. The value is not vehicle specific, BUT just a fraction of your battery capacity.

Every value around this issue depends on multitude of variables: temp, humidity, age, charge voltage etc - and they really are variables. If you have .10A leak and cant stand that, then either get bigger battery to extend your leak time - or find the source and makedo smtg about it.

Oxide accumulation plus the presence of water is known to effectively leak current and drain=damage the battery. (add to that glycol splash from previous rad leak, and you have some real weird effects...)

And this is a REALLY good point. WASH you battery down with baking powder and then rinse it off completely. You'd be amazed at how much current the goo on your battery can carry.

Also make sure your battery is tied down well. A battery that is allowed to shake, rattle and roll under the hood can lose charge capacity in a short time.

I had a issue with my 89, if i left the dome light on so that it comes on with the door being opened it would drain the battery (when the door was closed and the light off) but if i left it on the off setting it wouldn't drain.

you weren't saying AmpHrs at first.. just plain amps. AmpHrs are totally valid quantities of energy. You were just labelling everything as nA, rather than nAh. Otherwise i wouldn't argue. So as long as you are using Ah and not just A, then everything you said is correct. I'm just picky like that. My chem teacher would dock points for incorrect units... even capitalization (MM versus mm) so I just end up being kind of quick to point out stuff.

True. We would get lost, wouldnt we?

Your chemistry teach would freeze solid b/c she couldnt get the right formula to open the hood, less find the batt for jmpstrt hookup...

Yes! I did suspect that - never really concluded. But my dome light switch is nowadays always in OFF -position. And I do have 90Ah battery. And I do have a C-Tek battery charger integrated into my max harness = no more leak hunting!

http://www.sailgb.com/pi/RoadPro/C8607.jpg

Yes again! Issues that the FSM is in absolute failure in addressing - like leak current hunting.

heres the best related link today: http://www.swedishwrench.com/battery.htm

all i know is she had a prius and a cadillac. dunno if she knew where the batteries were. but if she did she'd be likely to test charge by using specific gravity or whatever that term is.

I miss my chem teacher. BUT not what she taught... I like to keep things simple (even by mauling equations), hate paralysis via analysis. Still, our world needs cadillacs:)

i replaced both the positive and negative battery cables on the car and disconnected the cd player. voltage hasnt dropped yet, so im going to check the voltage again and if it hasnt dropped, ill put the cd player back in and check it all week. if the voltage stays at 12.5 volts, the issue is solved. im thinking it was a combination of both of the cables or at least the postive cable (goes to the starter). it was really corroded/green/white at all of its terminals, not to mention the inner wire had a lot of green.

Battery cables was on my checklist as well in addition to the HU/alarm. It would be great if the fix to your problem ends helping me solving mine. I've also been suspecting my cables, but I think the problem with mine might be with the negative cable.

Not possible.

The issue was leaking from higher potential to ground. This can happen:
1a. via electronics devices by design
1b. via electronics devices by fault.
2. broken positive wire leaking to ground
3. Oxidized, wet, etc. connector or any positive point leaking to ground

If positive hi potential is missing, leak cant happen. If ground is missing, leak cant happen.

If an xtra route via soot appears from hi potential to gnd, sht may happen.

(Issue not included in this thread: supply resistance in oxidized wirings resulting in no start or whatever electrical malfunction)