khakuda

So, the 94 GXE has had a slow oil leak for a few years on the passenger side which drips right on the lower control arm and disintegrated the LCA bushing. I replaced the entire control arm when I did the struts and wrapped the puppy in thick tin foil, which works perfectly to keep the oil off the bushings.

That said, I woke up last night wondering if that oil leak could be hitting the timing belt which would be a disaster. The normal drive belts are clean, but the timing chain is under cover so I can't tell. Anyone who knows the design know if oil could lead onto the timing belt? Looking through the org, I didn't really see anyone referencing the issue. Thanks!

Jskates420

I had the similar issue when i first bought my 91 GXE,leak on the passenger side, their would be times my car would have smoke coming out at red lights due to the oil leak,the previous owner told me it had a bad valve,so me being me i bought some stop oil leak from autozone,forgot which kind honestly lol but point is i poured some in with some oil(people tend to look down on using tree sap like substan on an engine) and with no time(a little over a month) i got no more smoke,the oil now hardly leaks(still leaks a bit) but not as much as before and the car seems to run better.

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Are you sure it's an "oil leak"? I think the more likely culprit is a power steering fluid leak. I'm pretty sure the VG has the PS pump in the same general location as the VE and, if so, when it starts to leak there it literally drips right onto the control arm and does eat the bushing - at least on the VE. PS fluid will eat bushings, regular oil will not.

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

Possibly a power steering fluid leak like James mentioned could be the ps line too or perhaps cam seals if your sure it's oil. Can you tell if it's oil or ps fluid?

khakuda

Great question, but it is definitely motor oil in my case. The power steering fluid uses red transmission fluid and it is definitely not that. I could kill nissan for using a timing belt in an interference engine. Lucky you, I think your VE has a chain.

The water pump went at 90,000 miles and they told me they did the belt, too, so I am only 30,000 miles in and have no idea if they used a square tooth belt good for 60k or the round tooth 100k belt. Either way, if they actually did it, I'm fine for now unless oil is getting on it somehow. Why nissan couldn't have made the timing belt cover out of clear plastic I don't know. There is not enough clearance to get it off and look without removing hoses, belts and such and, at that point, I may as well replace the belt, water pump and those cam seals which may be what is leaking.

After the front struts, lower control arm, stabilizer bar links, spark plugs, tires, mass airflow sensor, rack and pinion boot, alignment, trunk lock cylinder, etc, etc, I am in for a bunch of hours and about $1800 over the past 7 months, so I need a break on repairs for now. But maybe a timing belt/water pump, cam seal replacement is in my future. Always hard to know how much to throw in to an old car. They are blowing out base Camry's near me for under $20k in prep for the new generation model, but they are just so plain and personality-free.

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

If you have a 94 chances are it's a round tooth belt unless the engine was ever swapped with a 89-92.

AzureblueZ

Hey ac max 92 - while we are on the subject. I am literally buying a timing belt today for my 94 Maxima GXE. I would like to buy the correct/best belt (be it round tooth or square tooth). Any recommendations?

On the ORG here I see this Nissan Part Number only:
13028-85E86

khakuda

You are probably correct. I guess I should stop worrying for now and hope oil is not getting on the timing belt. If it is and it fails, I guess I get a new car. I've learned a ton about cars with this car, but am glad everyone seems to use timing chains now. One less thing to worry about.

Thanks as always to you and James92SE for your input.

khakuda

Take it from me, I hope you consider replacing the cam seals, theromostat and water pump while you are in there. I didn't do the thermostat and seals and both have become issues.

acmax is probably right on the round tooth belt. Nissan switched around this time and it is rated for 100k vs 60k. Rockauto seems to show both for the car, but the round tooth appears favorited. Check it out.

AzureblueZ

I am actually in there for the waterpump. Since I'm going to be that deep I thought I better take care of all the timing part goodies as well. I am also ordering the cam seals, the front main seal, and the thermostat, though I am a bit nervous about replacing those seals.

Wow you were right about Rockauto. Do they have a good reputation around the ORG? In the past I have stuck pretty close to Genuine Nissan parts, but with Nissan wanting $70 for the timing belt tensioner (vs. $12 from Rock Auto) I am considering other options.

khakuda

What I have learned is that you go OEM if the savings would be little. Get an OEM thermostat and seals because you won't save anything with non-OEM...like you will save $5 - not worth it.. If you go non-OEM, go with a manufacturer that supplies OEM, not a china knock off. I made the mistake of buying a philipines exhaust system (rusted in 2 years) and chinese motor mounts (bent in 18 months). Never again. Replaced with a Walker muffler - perfect and Nissan motor mounts.

Last weekend, I needed a new trunk lock. I went to amazon and ordered the standard motor products tl172 for $15 used. It comes, it's new and it is identical to the nissan lock and has 2 OEM nissan keys. I got a standard motor products master light switch that was also identical nissan OEM for way less. Nissan wanted something like $400 for a lower control arm and I got AC Delco for $50. Same with mass aiflow sensor - $100 Delphi part vs some crazy Nissan price.

I think a Gates timing belt is as good as Nissan. Or timken bearings. Can't speak to the tensioner though. I would hate to advise you to go cheap unless you know it to be quality. Too hard and expensive to get back in to fix in that case.

I have a 94, too and it is a game trying to figure out what to splurge on and what to save on in a 23 year old car. Without provocation, my moonroof glass decided to crack 5 inches from edge to edge. It's not leaking and I just won't fix it because it wouldn't be worth it on car so old. I'm looking to keep it safe and working, not restore it to factory.

Google for a 5% discount code for Rockauto.

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

The cam gears are different on the 93-94 so it's not like you have a choice what belt to use. The thermostat and water pump can be done separate if your on a budget being they are accessible without having to take the timing cover apart etc. but yes if your in there and can just do it all. Also make sure you change the timing belt tensioner aswell. If I'm not mistaken you can get a timing belt kit from Nissan in the U.S I'm in Canada and would have had to get my parts separate but another member was nice enough at the time to get me a kit and ship it to me which still worked out less than what I would have paid locally. You could also do the crank seal aswell which may be another spot your oil is leaking from but the cam and crank seals are pretty inexpensive.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

change that small stud the tensioner springs pushes on. you'll thank me later.

AzureblueZ

Thanks!

Do you have to take that gear behind the crankshaft pulley off in order to replace the crank seal?

I had to take that sucker off once on my turbo donor motor and it was a nightmare. That may have been an isolated case, however. Everything was a nightmare coming off that motor.

I did indeed order the stud and the spring

khakuda

So which part number belt did you order? The nissan website is worthless. I put my VIN number in and it said the belt is discontinued. I tried the part number you showed and it said it wasn't a match. I may have to get that damn cover off to ensure it is round tooth.

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

If it's a 94 and the engine is original it should be a round tooth belt.

AzureblueZ

I ended up working with the local Nissan guy over the phone. I provided my VIN number in hopes of getting it exactly right. I didn't get a part number but the parts came in today, so I'll post back here with the style and part number I ended up with. I may not be able to pick them up until tomorrow.

They got everything in but the front crank seal, which oddly won't be in until next Tuesday. I may order one from NAPA instead.

khakuda

In the spirit of keeping a complete record here, I asked the awesome folks at courtesy Nissan to update their website with the entire kit for the 94 GXE. I was having trouble with the exact parts because the numbers have all changed. They have now included current part numbers, which are below, for the job.

13073-V5001 Stud-Tensioner
13072-0B700 Spring-Tensioner
13070-42L00 Tensioner Assembly-Belt
13510-88G00 Seal-Oil, Crankshaft Front
21200-V720A Thermostat
A172M-26ESBVW Belt-Fan & Alternator
11920-85E01TM Belt-Compressor
A195M-16E0MVW Belt-Power Steering Oil Pump
13028-0B785 Belt-Timing
13042-0B001 Seal-Oil,Camshaft (Qty. 2)
B1010-16E03 Water Pump
999MP-1217HP Liquid Gasket (Three Bond)

http://www.courtesyparts.com/timing-...tb?parent=1081


Thanks azureblue7 and, as always, acmax92. At this point, I may just press my luck and not spend the $700. I really just need to figure out how to check the timing belt because I know the thermostat, drive belts and water pump were done within the past 20,000 miles. I know he didn't do the seals or tensioner, but my mechanic thinks he did the timing belt, but he didn't do the drive belts or thermostat when he did the water pump, so I'm not sure what he did. He doesn't charge a lot and tries to do fixes as cheaply as possible even though I have pushed him to do everything once he is in a zone because it is stupid to waste time going back in. He thinks it is dumb to spend money on an old car and may be right. He does good work, but he doesn't always listen.

I've gotten almost 24 years out of this puppy and it may be easier to drive it into the sunset instead of spending hours hunting down hard to find parts. New cars have timing chains and I won't have to go through this expensive ritual anymore. Plus, new car sales appear to have topped out in the US which means the deals on new cars will be forthcoming. I will miss the Max and the .org, though.

Now, I just need to not die when the timing belt snaps...

khakuda

Hahaha. Just called the dealer to see what they would charge for a timing belt/water pump service and they said $900! And they say there is no inflation!

AzureblueZ

Wow! Thank you for the comprehensive list khakuda!

I have acquired all of those parts now. They are sitting on top of the Maxima. The timing belt I ended up with after providing the VIN Number of my 94 GXE (with a build date of 11/93) is 13028-0B785. I've been so busy with other projects that I haven't opened it up to inspect it just yet.

I just completed an NA2T swap on my z31 on Tuesday night. Whew!

I'll be tackling the Max next week.

AzureblueZ

PS - how mechanically inclined are you khakuda? Getting to the timing belt is a bit tricky but definitely do-able if you have some time and the right tools. It's not for everyone, but I did mine 10 years ago (I know, I know) and I'm not all that special or talented. Certainly not trained LOL

oldpuck81

the timing belt/water pump job is not hard, compared to, say, a 6th gen maxima w/ the 3.5 motor. Not much working space in the newer cars. I'd say the 3rd gens are fairly easy to work on if you know what you're doing. One thing about changing the timing belt- you might experience one or both of the cam gears turning after you release tension on the belt and that can be scary if you're not prepared for it since it will throw the whole motor out of time. When you put the new belt on, you'll have to turn that gear back so all the marks line up again. You can check yourself by manaully turning the motor over 2 revolutions (I think) so that all the marks go through one cycle and then end up back in alignment.
Also on the cam seal reaplaceement- the front seal is fairly easy to pry out. The back seal is hard because the shock tower is right there and doesn't give much working space. I make a little hook-shaped "puller" from a paint can opener they give away at Home Depot. I bend the tip and ground it to a point, then bent the main shaft so I could grab the edge of the seal and then pull it out. MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT SCRATCH the outer surface of the cam as this will cause a leak. That's why you have to pull that seal out without contacting the surface of the cam. You'll see what I mean when you get into it. Here's a photo of my little puller tool.

AzureblueZ

Wow! Sweet custom tool!

Thanks for all of the info oldpuck81. Good stuff! I'll be working on my timing belt job this week and I bought the cam seals to replace while I'm in there. Very timely!

khakuda

Oldpuck - This is all great information, thank you. I'll get a paint can opener and try to fashion one of those. And, if I ever get arrested, I will now know how to make a weapon in prison as well.

Azureblue - Basically, I do everything that can be done by an amateur from above the car. Spark plugs, yes. Fuel injectors, no. I have done window swtiches, stereos, mass airflow sensor, fuel hose/filter, about 8 window regulators on the same car, the power antenna, batteries of course, trunk lock, etc, etc. Basic body stuff.

I do what I can do and have an interest in. I could have bolted up the exhaust, too, but I don't have anywhere safe to work under the car - garage is too small and driveway and road are on hills. So, the rest of it, I diagnose with help from this great site, buy the parts and bring to a mechanic I trust. This site also has allowed me to pass tips on to the mechanic to get the job done correctly. I have a desk job during the week and spend the weekends fixing things around the house, so I just don't have all the time either. I'm happy to outsource work to people who make their living being good at their work.

But, I will fashion that tool and give it to the mechanic prior to going to have this done. I'm still waiting on the parts and am still wondering if at 23.5 years and 117,000 miles it is possible that the timing belt was never changed.

khakuda

Your timing belt number is correct. They must have mistakenly replaced the first character with an "A" instead of a 1. I have adjusted the parts list above.

oldpuck81

age is just as much an enemy to cars as mileage. A lot of rubber parts and seals should be replaced on these cars otherwise it'll be drip, drip, drip....
Khakuda, be prepared for a tranny rebuild, faulty injectors, bad fuel pump, rear main seal and set of front and rear struts at your mileage level. My tranny got rebuilt at 120K miles. Now that I've replaced practically every wear item on the car at least once, it still runs great. But alas, it is not like today's cars in that the suspension system, ergonomics and cabin comfort are dated and don't have the tight tolerances of today's manufacturing standards. But that doesn't mean you can't get lots of good city service from the 3rd gen Max. I just don't push it on the highway and try not to be too aggressive with my maneuvering. Here's a stat I'm quite proud of: My 94 GXE has cost me 15 cents/per mile (purchase + repair cost - resale) in 18 years of ownership!!

AzureblueZ

oldpuck - it's kind of scary how right you are. I've had to deal with all of these things, except the fuel pump (which I assume will be next).

Last night I took the timing covers off and the inside of both timing covers were absolutely caked with oil. The bottom timing cover had twice as much oil cake as the top. I literally could have made tar ***** and thrown them at someone. It appears to be engine oil. I wonder if it's coming from the cam seals or the crank seal?

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khakuda

These cars all have exactly the same issues. My injectors started going bad at around 80,000 miles and I stupidly fixed the first 2 (with a couple years between) independently. Costly mistake. When the 3rd went, I ripped out all 6 and redid them. Front struts just got done, along with the passenger lower control arm because the oil drip killed the bushing.

The tranny and fuel pump, well I'm not going to stick around for that fun. After ordering the timing belt kit, but before going to the expense of installingit, I noticed brake fluid under the driver rear door. Well, the brake lines are completely rusted out. I'm sure the fuel line isn't far behind...or the fuel pump.

I returned the timing belt kit, took the hit on the restocking fee and am calling it a day. Trade will probably net me $300 (the new tires were $550 and I will miss the aftermarket stereo, oh well).

Going for the Accord or Camry and this time at 20 years, if it makes it, I say goodbye. The last 4 years of the Max have been too costly in terms of time and I need a more reliable daily driver. Glad to graduate to a vehicle with a timing chain as well. The belt ritual is expensive.

khakuda

Nice photos! Hope your phone didn't get too greased taking them.

I did not open the timing belt cover but did look underneath the car and I can see that same tar like goo seeping out of the bottom of the cover.

AzureblueZ

@khakuda I can understand why you are throwing in the towel. I took my Max off of the road because of the waterpump failure but I'm discovering that I have many more issues than that. Thank goodness I just finished my NA2T z31 project because I've got nothing else to drive

It was indeed a challenge to get in there with my phone without completely soaking it in oil

I wouldn't be surprised if I end up replacing the passenger side lower control arm as well. Mine is definitely caked in fluids.

I haven't made any more progress since these pictures. I need to get some disposable gloves before I proceed. I got so very dirty the night I took these pictures. It took me an hour just to get cleaned up afterwards.

I'll be spending a lot more time cleaning up the timing covers and everything else in this area before I can get any real work done.

khakuda

Yes, every time I fixed something, another problem arose immediately and I have no other transport other than an old bicycle and a moped I have had since 1983. I need something reliable and have no choice but to get a new car. I liked the challenge of keeping the car going, saving some money and providing work to my local honest mechanic. But I have to draw the line at failing brake lines. I'm sure the fuel line is no better.

I had a rattling noise when going over bumps which I discovered was the lower control arm bushings, caked in oil/sludge which had destroyed the rubber. Hot oil + rubber = bad. Nissan wanted something like $400 for a new one. I could have put a new bushing in, but the LCA was rusted like hell. If you hear rattling and need to do the lower control arm, I got this one and have had no issues:


Good luck with the project. Too bad you don't live nearby. You could cannibalize my car before it hits the junk heap.

AzureblueZ

I'd like that, though I would feel terrible about ripping apart a car that has carried you through so much. I could sure use those shocks

I hope your next vehicle is a good one! I am tempted to do the same, if this gets much worse. I do so love not having a car payment though. Then again, these last two months I might as well have had a car payment

khakuda

That is what threw me over the edge. I spent about $1800 since last October and was looking at another $700+ for timing belt kit + labor and then who knows how much for new brake lines. Then, I'm sure I will hear that the calipers/boots/piston seals, etc are shot, along with the fuel line, blah, blah. If I'm in for $3600 a year, I could lease a new car at $300 a month and not have any worries at all.

It is starting to bring my monthly average ownership cost up and taking up too much time. Still very sad, though.

Apparently this is the last year of the Honda Accord having natural aspiration and a V6, which is a terrific engine. But, the V4 has a timing chain and the V6 has a belt with an interference engine like the Maxima. Too much stress to go through that V6 belt stuff again. When I got the Max, the timing belt changes were a couple hundred bucks and now, as I mentioned, the dealer wanted $900. I'd prefer $0 with the chain. Toyota seemed to be smart enough to make non-interference belt timed engines which were easier to replace and lacked the stress of breaking and blowing the engine on an interference.

As for Nissan, the salesperson at Toyota used to work at Nissan and told me that she is happier to not have all the unhappy customers coming back with transmission issues as she had at Nissan. That was generally, not for maxima specifically.