Dave B

A local ex-Maxima owner had his Stage II SFCs sitting in his garage so I decided what the hay, I'll grab them. For those that don't know, Stage II of the SFCs is a X-brace that ties in the Stage I SFC (frame rail mounts). I guess it's not really an "X" brace because it is bisected by an additional rod in the middle (look at the pics on warpspeedperformance.com). Orignally I didn't get the Stage II because of perceived clearance issues with my now departed Intrax springs (feared the Stage II would bottom out). I also didn't get Stage II because I wasn't entirely sold on the concept.

Install:
Before I put them on I weighed the Stage II and they came in at ~9lbs so no big deal. After spraying on some underbody coating on to the bars I installed the setup. Needless to say it's a big pain in the a$$ to install Stage II in your garage unless you have a lift. I say this because you need to drill the pads on Stage I to bolt in the Stage II. This takes a bit of precision, time, strength, and being double-jointed wouldn't hurt. First you vise clamp on the Stage II, mark where you'll put the holes, them drop Stage II, then drill. The drilling is where the precision is at and that's a problem because there's very little room to work well your jack only extends 16". It was amazing how high my car was at certain points of the project in order to fit the length of the drill between the floor and pads of Stage I. I pretty much had to place the jack in 6 different places to drill the 6 different holes. Then I lowered the car off the jacks and bolted up the Stage II. Finally, after 2.5 hours I was done (I'm sure you're saying the same about the length of this post). I checked for potential clearance issues with the exhaust and such and everything looked good. I was happy to see that I didn't loose any ground clearance either.

Drive:
I started her up and went on to tackle some of the bumpier and rippled sections of road where I live. I'm happy to report these things work and I wish I did it sooner. I've been running Stage I for about 1 year now so I know the characteristics of my car. The car feels even more rigid (harshness dissapates with this mod) plus handling is even improved further with the car reacting better thru slightly bumpy turns.

My recommendation is get the Stage II when you get Stage I because it really is a very solid set up and it will be far easier to mount when the car is on a four post lift.


Dave

Flava_24/7

iTrader: (46)

Thanks for that info. I was always wondering how well they worked.

sidewinder740

So basically: Stage II = even less harshness, more control over bumpy surfaces, and even better handling?

That's interesting because many others who've added stage 2 after having tried out stage 1 say it makes the car "too ridged" and "adds harshness".

96BLUMAX

iTrader: (3)

Good to know. Sold me on them.

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

I have to disagree on one area. I had each stage installed, 1 day apart from each other (summer 2002). This way, I would notice any difference between Stage 1 and 1+2. With Stage II, I really feel like it's a bit stiffer...meaning, when I go over uneven roads, with the front wheels not contacting the raised/lowered portion of the road simultaneously, I experienced rocking and pitching in the lateral direction. It's the one thing I initially noticed with Stage II. I've gotten used to it, and it's gotten better since I've raised my AGX settings to 3/6. But overall, the recovery time (when the car is settled again) from road uneveness is very sharp and quick.

As for the the benifits of this mod...increased turning response and sharpness, more balanced turning, and a better overall steering feel.
I'm positive if I ever took Stage II off, I'd experience a nicer ride quality, but I'd lose some of the handling qualities that I like.

Anachronism

Dave - No clearance issues with exhaust? Are you saing the stage two improved the ride?

My stage two just barely clears the exhaust just behind the Cat. My shop got creative and put a rubber block (rubber exhaust hanger) between the B pipe and that little brace that is behind the resonator. It seemed kind of Getto but it worked for the past few months.

I just removed my cat to get at my STS and when I removed that little brace behind the resonator one of the studs snaped off . (Note when doing any exhaust work save yourself some trouble and remove the stage two instead of trying to work around it)

Now my exhaust rattles against the cross brace under moderate acceleration. Combined with my exhaust leak my car sounds great at the moment So now I am tryng to decide if I want to remove the stage two or try to jury rig the exhaust again to make it clear. I had stage two from the beginning so I don't know how it woud be without it, if the ride is better without it I will leave it off even if it means a small decrease in handling. But if I am going to keep it I would rather put it on now instead of getting back under my car later. I must of missed the thread(s) that said stage two makes the ride worse.

What does that little brace behind the resonator do anyway?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

That's exactly how mine was for a long long time... it's the most annoying thing in the world actually. I lived with it like that for over a year.


Dave--good post I was wondering about this myself... I've got stage 1 and 2 and I had them installed at the same time so I don't know the difference in feeling between the 2, but I know that with SFCs vs without, my car feels much more comfortable (less chassis flex = more suspension movement which is what you WANT) = better ride with less bouncing.

I am afraid you will find yourself scraping your stage 2s though... even though the lowest part of the car has not changed, the X-brace is right in the middle so you can high-center it on speed bumps and messed up driveways and such rather than the other lowest points of your car (RSB and front motor brace thingy) which are directly in line with the axles and thus always kept high enouch off the ground by the height of your wheels and tires.)

itsgt

any pics?

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Are you talking to me? How can you be knocking on my suspension? I have had H&R/AGX for a while now and I've been satisfied with it. Although it is does not provide my ideal handling desires by any means, it gets the job done.

I know that a stiffer chassis should create a better ride, but...I'm almost positive that after installing stage 2, it's more jarring over uneven road pavement. No, I'm not talking about cracked or rough roads, it's all the same over those. I'm talking about roads that suddenly dip down or up. The car doesn't glide over those types of road imperfections, it goes over them very harshly, and as I said before, the recovery time for the car to go back to an equilibrium state in the lateral direction is extremely quick.

I know stiffening the chassis is supposed to let the suspension do it's work, but if feels like the compression over the type of road I mentioned is not responsive enough to glide over. I've had stage 2 on for a long time...

Dave B

Stiff chassis = better handling, better ride

This is interesting to say the least because we both have nearly the same setup (H&R, Koni fronts, AGX rears, Stage II). My front Konis are set at 60% firmness and the AGX rears are set at "5". I don't quite understand how you could feel a difference between the Stage I and Stage II if you only ran them a day a part. It took me a solid week to realize all the benefits and "feel" of Stage I. I ran my Stage Is for one solid year so I know how my car reacts over bumps in my area at speed and I must say my car is less harsh and feels more solid with the Stage IIs over rutted, pebbled, and bumpy surfaces. This isn't to say my car doesn't get harsh over a decent pothole or bump, but the impact is less severe and less jarring. Today I was able to fling my car into some clover leaf entrance/exit ramps and I noted better handling (flatter) and higher limits of adhesion (not extreme, but it was noticable).


Dave

Dave B

Yep, no clearance issues. How's your middle cross brace mounted? Is the brace placed above the Stage I mounting pad or is it placed below the mounting pad? When test fitting my Stage II, I noticed that if I placed the middle brace on top of the pad, the cross brace was dangerously close to hitting the B-pipe behind the cat (while 1/4"). Simply placing the cross brace under the mounting pad, which is mearly 3/16" thick, clearance was greatly improved and I have about 1" clearance between the B-pipe and brace. If you're a 97+ then you need WSP "straight" pipe to replace the stock "curved" extension (has the O2 sensor in it) that sits between the cat and B-pipe. 95-96 and some 98-99 Maximas don't have this RESTRICTIVE pipe.

Another potential clearance issue I ran into is random unibody bolts and nuts that hang from underneath the car. When I attached my Stage II, I hit the Stage II to check for rattles and sure enough the brace gave a "ping". The rear driver's side brace was resting on top of 8mm bolt thread which caused the brace to make sounds. I'm certain this would have also caused possible vibration while driving. I simply took out my sledge and chisel and belt it out of the way of the brace. Problem solved.

As for the little brace behind the resonator, that's brace that catches the B-pipe in case pipe and or hanger breaks. I don't have mine on because my WSP Y-pipe was slightly longer and lower than stock and sometimes when it was hot out, the hangers would get softer and the exhaust pipes expanded from the heat which in turn caused periodic clanks and "hums" as the pipe hit the brace. Dallas at WSP tells me the brace is actually there as a structural support, but I have to disagree because the central tunnel that runs along the floor is probably one of the most rigid parts of the part (it's a "backbone") and it doesn't need any kind of bracing. Plus the brace is just rolled thin gauge metal attached by two 10mm nuts. How's that going to do anything for support?


Dave

Anachronism

All my cross bracing is below the pads. I have the Warpspeed B-pipe but it never fit correctly until I had a muffler shop bend it a bit. When I had the SFCs intalled they messed with the B-pipe more and ended up putting the rubber block between the B and that little brace to hold it up. Without the rubber block there is about 1/4" clearance between the cross bracing and the B behind the cat and it hits under acceleration. With the block there is about 3/4" clearance and no noise problems.

I agree that brace does not look sturdy enough for any sort of structural purpose. Right now I have a sheet metal screw on one side and the factory nut and stud on the other. I hope that will hold.

My cross bracing comes pretty close to one of the studs for the heat shield over the resonator but otherwise there are no clearance issues.

JeffesonM

iTrader: (5)

hmmm.... good reading.

I'm getting a custom cat-back made soon so I figured while I was at the shop, I might as well get some SFCs put on. Do you think I should get the Stage II mounted above or below the pads?

shortchaz

Good to hear you like them and actually notice the difference. 8)

Dave B

Here's a pic of the Stage I and Stage II setup:



My Stage Is needs to be recoated because they're showing some rust. The pic should give you an idea of what the setup looks like.

Notes:

That is my Warpspeed non-mandrel alumnized y-pipe. This thing has survived two salty Kansas winters and barely has a spot of rust on it. Now what's the advantage of stainless again

Yes, I know my oil sender unit is leaking. No, the staining around the oil pan is not from the oil sender, it's from a spill with the oil filter.

Yes, that is my Nopi-sponsered HONDA-"R" lawnmower in the back righthand corner.

Dave B

I found an entry road that contorts and bottoms out the suspension a bit. I parked the car were I thought it was at it's lowest point and I'm within 1" of bottoming out the X-brace. This was with a full tank of gas too. I'd imagine if I had people in the back I would probably scrap a little. I guess this is another advantage of running the higher sitting H&Rs.


Dave

oldNickBroken

that's not quite true. the thing that I most frequently scrape is that front support crossmember below the engine. the only other thing i ever scrape is my b-pipe (it hangs low, like other people's for some reason). but this happens on different types of bumps/road flaws, the crossmember only scrapes on steep driveways and wide potholes; basically any stretch of road where the elevation/grade changes drastically and quickly. when my b-pipe scrapes (which is the only thing that does scrape in this case because it's hangs so low) it is when i go over a rumble-strip-type median or a tall/steep speedbump.

i really, really doubt that I would have a problem with clearance if I got SFC's, but that's just me and my car. I have 2k1 16" GLE rims, front tires at 29psi, rears at 32, as well as Sprints and AGX's all around. i also have a FSTB and RSB, but i doubt that affects anything here. the fstb, perhaps, since it changes the geometry of the struts slightly, may change your chances of scraping the front support member i was talking about, but i don't think such a simple mod can affect a suspension enough to do that.

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

I scraped for the first time when I had 2 passengers in the back...I was going over a speed bump a little bit quicker than usual (which is still very slow), since speedbump isn't steep at all. It's more of a slight slope. Anyway, I heard the scrape and your prediction is right that w/ people, you will scrape if you're not careful.