TWIN TURBO MAX.. is this possible??
09-26-2003, 09:23 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,085
TWIN TURBO MAX.. is this possible??
is this possible? why or why not? my friend has a 98 max se and he has $$$ to spend to make his car the fastest. he's not an .org member, nor is he even into the internet world. so i'm asking this for him.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
09-26-2003, 09:29 AM
#3
sure it can be done with lots and lots of $$$. Worth it? NO.
Tell your friend to use all that money he wants to spend on a twin turbo and buy him self a single turbo and with the rest of the money he can buy all the org members some icecream
Tell your friend to use all that money he wants to spend on a twin turbo and buy him self a single turbo and with the rest of the money he can buy all the org members some icecream
09-26-2003, 09:31 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,461
umm twin turbo doesnt necessarily mean it's better than single turbo
go to www.supraforums.com and see why the TT guys are changing their turbo to a bigger single from dual
go to www.supraforums.com and see why the TT guys are changing their turbo to a bigger single from dual
09-26-2003, 09:32 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 663
Originally Posted by optimus310
sure it can be done with lots and lots of $$$. Worth it? NO.
Tell your friend to use all that money he wants to spend on a twin turbo and buy him self a single turbo and with the rest of the money he can buy all the org members some icecream
Tell your friend to use all that money he wants to spend on a twin turbo and buy him self a single turbo and with the rest of the money he can buy all the org members some icecream
sounds like a plan!
09-26-2003, 09:41 AM
#7
uhh tell him to rebuild his engine.
New JWT high lift Cams.
Custom Domed Pistons.
Increase Displacement +0.2l.
Headers.
new lightened flywheel.
Port n Polish everything you can get the machine shop to do =].
thats all NA....with all that put a big turbo on it and he'll be fine. if he has the cash to spend...tell him to rebuild the engine.
that would be a mean max.
oh and he'd have to upgrade his fuel deliver system too.
New JWT high lift Cams.
Custom Domed Pistons.
Increase Displacement +0.2l.
Headers.
new lightened flywheel.
Port n Polish everything you can get the machine shop to do =].
thats all NA....with all that put a big turbo on it and he'll be fine. if he has the cash to spend...tell him to rebuild the engine.
that would be a mean max.
oh and he'd have to upgrade his fuel deliver system too.
09-26-2003, 09:51 AM
#8
Originally Posted by Torgus
uhh tell him to rebuild his engine.
Custom Domed Pistons.
Increase Displacement +0.2l.
Headers.
with all that put a big turbo on it and he'll be fine. if he has the cash to spend...tell him to rebuild the engine.
that would be a mean max.
oh and he'd have to upgrade his fuel deliver system too.
Custom Domed Pistons.
Increase Displacement +0.2l.
Headers.
with all that put a big turbo on it and he'll be fine. if he has the cash to spend...tell him to rebuild the engine.
that would be a mean max.
oh and he'd have to upgrade his fuel deliver system too.
09-26-2003, 10:52 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,085
well, he's just into maximas and his dad owns a racing track. the max was his mom's and he basically took off all the plastic pieces, passenger seats, fabric off, spare tire, jack, etc.. off of his car.
He's all into that stuff you kjnow.. and i know he'll spend $$ on turbo(s) and some ice cream for some members if it becomes successful =)
and when i say $$, he doesn't have enough to buy another car.. he has a few grand.. let's not hate him now.. i' hate him too for having that $$..
and he also wants to be "unique" at the same time so i'm guessin that's why he wants a TT.....
He's all into that stuff you kjnow.. and i know he'll spend $$ on turbo(s) and some ice cream for some members if it becomes successful =)
and when i say $$, he doesn't have enough to buy another car.. he has a few grand.. let's not hate him now.. i' hate him too for having that $$..
and he also wants to be "unique" at the same time so i'm guessin that's why he wants a TT.....
09-26-2003, 12:11 PM
#18
Originally Posted by minsbang
is this possible? why or why not? my friend has a 98 max se and he has $$$ to spend to make his car the fastest. he's not an .org member, nor is he even into the internet world. so i'm asking this for him.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
10987654321
09-26-2003, 02:56 PM
#23
Definitely possible with enough money. It doesn't sound like your friend has enough money though. To do it properly, he would need enough money to buy another car. That's the kind of money it takes.
And it's pretty pointless. 1 bigger properly sized turbo will perform the same, piping will be much simpler, and so will maintenance. It's a lot cheaper to run 1 turbo also. You don't need to buy 2 of every part, and you don't have to pipe everything twice. Only have 1 throttle body anyways.
And it's pretty pointless. 1 bigger properly sized turbo will perform the same, piping will be much simpler, and so will maintenance. It's a lot cheaper to run 1 turbo also. You don't need to buy 2 of every part, and you don't have to pipe everything twice. Only have 1 throttle body anyways.
Originally Posted by minsbang
is this possible? why or why not? my friend has a 98 max se and he has $$$ to spend to make his car the fastest. he's not an .org member, nor is he even into the internet world. so i'm asking this for him.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
he told me he wants something that's better than a super charger or a turbo.
09-26-2003, 05:41 PM
#24
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Bruno, CA (SF Bay)
Posts: 3,747
its possible, the only thing preventing it MIGHT be space. but whats the point? a large single turbo can do a much better job than twin turbos... need proof? click here and check out what what some of THE fastest supras are running (a lot of single turbos in that group)
09-26-2003, 05:51 PM
#26
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Bruno, CA (SF Bay)
Posts: 3,747
you want to reinforce more stuff before you go nuts with the forced induction...you are forcing the engine to take more air than its used to/made for (depending on the engine)
09-26-2003, 08:25 PM
#27
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 18
supra owners change to a large single turbo setup because the way Toyota designed the exhaust manifold on the supra. the design that they have works very well at the stock boost settings but as more
power is desired by us power hungry aftermarket types the stock manifold becomes a problem. it is too restrictive at higher levels of boost and starts to cause back pressure and heat problems. after a certain
point adding more boost will no increase power because of the increased heat and back pressure. the reason skyline owners keep their twin setup is because Nissan designed a much better exhaust manifold
for their cars that does not have any of the problems that plague supra owners so instead of having a custom manifold made like the skyline's supra owners just go ahead with a large single with readily
available manifolds from the likes of GReddy, HKS, Blitz, etc. also supra owners have 0.4 Liters more displacement to spool that large turbo. another reason is because the supra 2JZ motor is so stout from
the factory that the internals can handle over 800hp from the factory while the skyline's cannot. so money can be spent elsewhere. also because of the lightweight internals of the skyline motor it revs
much faster than the supra motor so it has no problem spooling 2 turbos which would come into boost much sooner in the rev range than a large single and the lower end is where skyline motors need all the
help they can get because of the small displacement. think of the skyline motor as a 6 cylinder Honda b-series. because in essence if you slice off 2 of the skylines cylinders you have a stroked b16 at 1.7L.
low torque but lots of high end. Nissan and Toyota put twins on because the smaller the turbo the faster the spool and you have to remember that not everyone is like us and will sacrifice some lag for lots of power with a big single. these cars have to be marketable so even your grandma can drive without waiting for boost to come on then losing control when it hits at 5000rpm and starts to spin the wheels uncontrollably. and big single turbo track cars are rare because one big turbo could have you waiting for boost to come on when exiting a turn when power is needed most or the boost could come on hard mid-turn and lead to uncontrollable oversteer. not good.in most twin turbo setups there is a control valve that spools up one turbo before the other like in a supra. there is a valve that spools the first turbo then opens a certain boost pressure and sends exhaust gasses toward the other turbo as well so this way at first 6 cylinders are spooling one CT26 turbo then when that turbo gets into significant amounts of boost the gate opens and starts to let the other CT26 spool up. until maximum boost is realized. this little gate that is in the exhaust path is also one of the major restrictions that causes the limit of using the stock exhaust manifold on the supra. this is of course entirely useless on a V-type engine as we have. and you would think that the effect of faster spooling would be lost on V-type engines since there would only be half as many cylinders driving each turbo but actually since these could be mounted on more efficient manifolds placed closer to the engine. in a single turbo setup you must combine the exhaust manifolds at some point that is further away from the exhaust valves and then send them thru the tubocharger. this extra length in piping cools the exhaust gasses and slows them down, effectively negating the belief of better spool up than the twin turbo setup. and for the same horse power lets say 500hp two turbochargers that can produce 250hp worth of boost will spool faster than one turbocharger capable of producing 500hp. and the power only gets higher from there. as most likely you will be able to find two turbochargers that can support 300-350hp each and still spool faster or just as fast as the 500hp turbocharger and will give you 600-700hp.
power is desired by us power hungry aftermarket types the stock manifold becomes a problem. it is too restrictive at higher levels of boost and starts to cause back pressure and heat problems. after a certain
point adding more boost will no increase power because of the increased heat and back pressure. the reason skyline owners keep their twin setup is because Nissan designed a much better exhaust manifold
for their cars that does not have any of the problems that plague supra owners so instead of having a custom manifold made like the skyline's supra owners just go ahead with a large single with readily
available manifolds from the likes of GReddy, HKS, Blitz, etc. also supra owners have 0.4 Liters more displacement to spool that large turbo. another reason is because the supra 2JZ motor is so stout from
the factory that the internals can handle over 800hp from the factory while the skyline's cannot. so money can be spent elsewhere. also because of the lightweight internals of the skyline motor it revs
much faster than the supra motor so it has no problem spooling 2 turbos which would come into boost much sooner in the rev range than a large single and the lower end is where skyline motors need all the
help they can get because of the small displacement. think of the skyline motor as a 6 cylinder Honda b-series. because in essence if you slice off 2 of the skylines cylinders you have a stroked b16 at 1.7L.
low torque but lots of high end. Nissan and Toyota put twins on because the smaller the turbo the faster the spool and you have to remember that not everyone is like us and will sacrifice some lag for lots of power with a big single. these cars have to be marketable so even your grandma can drive without waiting for boost to come on then losing control when it hits at 5000rpm and starts to spin the wheels uncontrollably. and big single turbo track cars are rare because one big turbo could have you waiting for boost to come on when exiting a turn when power is needed most or the boost could come on hard mid-turn and lead to uncontrollable oversteer. not good.in most twin turbo setups there is a control valve that spools up one turbo before the other like in a supra. there is a valve that spools the first turbo then opens a certain boost pressure and sends exhaust gasses toward the other turbo as well so this way at first 6 cylinders are spooling one CT26 turbo then when that turbo gets into significant amounts of boost the gate opens and starts to let the other CT26 spool up. until maximum boost is realized. this little gate that is in the exhaust path is also one of the major restrictions that causes the limit of using the stock exhaust manifold on the supra. this is of course entirely useless on a V-type engine as we have. and you would think that the effect of faster spooling would be lost on V-type engines since there would only be half as many cylinders driving each turbo but actually since these could be mounted on more efficient manifolds placed closer to the engine. in a single turbo setup you must combine the exhaust manifolds at some point that is further away from the exhaust valves and then send them thru the tubocharger. this extra length in piping cools the exhaust gasses and slows them down, effectively negating the belief of better spool up than the twin turbo setup. and for the same horse power lets say 500hp two turbochargers that can produce 250hp worth of boost will spool faster than one turbocharger capable of producing 500hp. and the power only gets higher from there. as most likely you will be able to find two turbochargers that can support 300-350hp each and still spool faster or just as fast as the 500hp turbocharger and will give you 600-700hp.
09-26-2003, 08:53 PM
#29
I thought about a twin setup..
Attaching a turbo to each collector , like 2 T3's.
That way you would not need a reverse y- pipe, but it gets tricky after that.
And Like Superdude4agze said, it's power under the curve.
So after you have the turbo bolted to the collector, then you need a feed pipe ( for air into the turbo ) , and a charge pipe ( to the FMIC ) and then the exhaust pipe (which you could combine the 2 exhaust pipes and run them as one)
So looking at a Maxima engine bay there is only so much room.. so your only real option on the rear/left bank would be coming out on the drivers side.. and if you think about it you could have the charge side come foward.
For the front/right bank you would do the same the intake pipe would come out on the drivers side and the charge side would come forward.
Then the carge pipes would come together and go on the back of the bumper into the FMIC.
And then you can bring the Charge pipe from the FMIC up through a hole in the driver'd side fender well. Like the CAI's.
And into the TB.. so there you go. I have done some very quiet research on it. But since I still have not hit the limit of my current setup no reason to upgrade yet.
See doesn't that sound EASY
Attaching a turbo to each collector , like 2 T3's.
That way you would not need a reverse y- pipe, but it gets tricky after that.
And Like Superdude4agze said, it's power under the curve.
So after you have the turbo bolted to the collector, then you need a feed pipe ( for air into the turbo ) , and a charge pipe ( to the FMIC ) and then the exhaust pipe (which you could combine the 2 exhaust pipes and run them as one)
So looking at a Maxima engine bay there is only so much room.. so your only real option on the rear/left bank would be coming out on the drivers side.. and if you think about it you could have the charge side come foward.
For the front/right bank you would do the same the intake pipe would come out on the drivers side and the charge side would come forward.
Then the carge pipes would come together and go on the back of the bumper into the FMIC.
And then you can bring the Charge pipe from the FMIC up through a hole in the driver'd side fender well. Like the CAI's.
And into the TB.. so there you go. I have done some very quiet research on it. But since I still have not hit the limit of my current setup no reason to upgrade yet.
See doesn't that sound EASY
09-26-2003, 09:49 PM
#34
Go with the single, makes more sense. Plus I always thought 1 big turbo looked better than 2 little ones.
Originally Posted by minsbang
so i should tell him to stick with a big a$$ single turbo setup...and tell him to save up some more $$...
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