Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Yesterday when I went to Brooklyn with my friends, my car did the most nasty thing to me since I owned it. I'll make it as short as possible. Please help me to analyze what happened, because it looks like I will need to squeeze out lot of dough on this..

-On a Ocean pkwy suddenly can't get into 5th gear (clutch all way to the floor). Tried and could not get it just in any gear, after some time somehow got it in fifth untill traffic lights started
-With humangous pressure (thinking I'm about to brake that shifter) got it into 1st, then somehow in 2nd
-Pulled over, called friends and relatives to ask if they know what the problen could be. After some advices checked level of fluid in hydrolics reservuar (sp?) - none.
-Got braking fluid, filled to maximum, bleeded lines, pumped pedal and stuff, after two hours of focking around still same problem. When engine is off, it shifts great, when it's running, can't shift at all, and pedal lies on the floor, does not rise up, but level of fluid is fine.
-After very long day used uncle's AAA to tow car back to Stamford, saved some money at least on that.

Thank's for patience, guys. So what you think the problem is, clutch I guess, but what in particular and what are ways to fix that, I need car running back asap!

THANKS!!!

sryth

Sounds like you either have air in your system, or one of the clutch cylinders is shot.

Check all of the clutch lines/hoses/slave cylinder for leaks. If there aren't any, you can try to bleed the system and see if that helps.

I have a feeling you're gonna end up needing a new master/slave cylinder.

Remember, it's always bad to force it into gear. If this ever happens again, just use the starter while in 1st to get you rolling and rev-match your shifts. That'll get you off the road or home if it's not too far.

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

hey Vlad, i was having these exact same issues when i had my tranny rebuilt (changed diff bearing). I still have this issue time to time when i've been driving for a long time. Never thought about the master or slave cylinder being bad. But i have fluid in mine...and mine is one and off. IN fact if i take my time while shifting like twice real slow then the problem kind of goes away or shifting gets better....

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Thanks Sryth and Mecca for replies. I am still a newb when it gets to clutch and transmission but I believe I know what you are talking about.

Under the fluid reservuar, following metal pipe down along firewall I actually felt lot's of greeze with my fingers. I couldn't see exactly what was going on there because of the big black round "drum" on which brake fluid reservuar is mounted.

Could that imply that master cylinder is shot. Is is where it's located?

I will do some homework on Haynes when I get back home.

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

bump... anyone else...

sryth

Sounds like the lines coming out of the master cylinder are leaking. It's probably not grease, but brake fluid. Take some pictures, if you can.

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

First pic, area down from Master Cylinder (looking up), covered with brake fluid. Area around master cylinder itself is dry
(car domain did not wonna enlarge picture, will try to fix at work)



Second pic, salve cylinder (Note: All transmission covered in oil or brake fluis, can't tell)

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

You were in BK and didnt call me

sryth

Well, if there is brake fluid all over your bellhousing, I'd think you'd notice a drop in fluid.

Does the pedal still stay on the floor? Try cleaning off the bellhousing with degreaser, let it dry and pump the pedal to see if the fluid leaks on to the bellhousing again.

I think we can rule out the disk, but just to double check, have someone push down on the clutch pedal and see if the slave cylinder pushrod moves at all. Also, hold the rubber hose with your hand and have someone push the clutch pedal down. You should feel the hose tense up.

You said you bled the system...when you pumped the pedal for bleeding, did it push fluid out of the bleeders? Did it hold a pedal when you closed the bleeders?

I'm betting on one of the cylinders.

[edit]If you want, you can email me the pictures at sryth@lightuniverse.no-ip.com.[/edit]

Chickan

iTrader: (12)

also, you did bleed both bleeder valves right? There is one on the bottom of the engine, near the slave cylinder, and also there is one on the top of the engine, drivers side. YOU MUST BLEED BOTH!

Proper technique to bleed both is:
1) Fix whatever is leaking, slave cylinders are notorious for leaking, but could be the master, or the lines as well, or maybe a combination of all three. Swap out any parts you think might be defective, as its worth $20 to only have to bleed the system once.

2) have someone watch the level in the master cylinder, always topping it off, if any air at all is sucked in, you'll have to start over.

3) have someone in the car, and have a third person under the car. With the bleeder valve open (I believe it is a 10mm plug), have the person in the car push in and hold hte clutch pedal to the floor. This will squirt out a decent bit of hydrolic fluid (watch out, that **** will hit your eyes, and it does sting). With the pedal still held to the floor, close the bleeder valve, sealing the system. Next, the person in the car releases/pulls up the clutch pedal. Then repeat, open valve, push in and hold clutch down, close valve, pull up clutch. Do this many many times, until you are getting pure, new hydrolic fluid out. Also, you will want to push in and hold the slave cylinder itself, to get all of the air out of it as well. With the bleeder valve open, push in on the slave cylinder, on that black boot. Now hold that in as the clutch is pressed down. CLose the bleeder valve, then let go of the slave cylinder, then pull clutch up off the floor. Do this several times to get all the air out.

4) With the bottom work done (for now), move to the top of the engine, and use the same procedure for the secondary bleeder valve. Open valve, press in and hold clutch pedal, close valve, release pedal. Do this many times until the fluid coming out is clean, without any air bubbles.

5) After the top is done, go back under the car, and rebleed it (shouldn't take more than a minute or two), then rebleed the top, this will make sure everything is perfect.

6) Test the clutch for proper pressure (with both valves closed), it should be pretty stiff. Test putting it in all the gears (with the car off), should slip in easily.

Some tips:
It really is a 3 person job if you can get the help, its possible with 2, but you have to really monitor the clutch master cylinder fluid level, as it will suck it out pretty quickly, and it is not a large resevoir. Also, take your time, its not a difficult procedure, but if you rush it, it will only give you headaches.

Bottom line, replace all the parts in the system that look iffy, no need to bleed it twice, take your time, and it is something anyone can do, really it is no harder than changing your oil. Good luck

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Guys, thanks for the replies. That is so helpful and I believe I found my problem. Totally by chance looking for something else I wondered on Motorwave.ca and saw same problem. I believe it is my hose that is leeking. I mistakenly presumed that all that oil on transmission spilled on the hose, but it must be the other way around , I feel so dumb!

I will order it at dealer today or tomorrow, and replace it right away.

Guys, you can't imagine how happy I am that you help me out here, because I am like preparing to spend money on putting new clutch in and even possibly transmission in case I messed it up bad while driving for some time with non-working clutch.

Thanks A Lot Again!

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

I have just finished a four hour bonanza with that that damned clutch. I replaced the hose that I talked about, got all air out, it's still the same. Also it looks like it's not really the leak that is a problem. Thins is, whenever clutch is fully pressed down, I look at the slave cylinder and it extends all the way: I judge by the black rubber piece that goes around cylinder, it is fully streched out
(on a pic red arrow points to it)


When I start the car with clutch pressed down, I hear this loud friction noise of cltch against pressure plate indicating it's not fully retracted. So I tend to believe that it is something internal rather then a leak.

What do you guys think? Help me out here please, I am really getting disappointed now...

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

dump........

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

This happend to me once, i left my car outside for over a week not using it, one day i come back and same as u say, biotch wont go into the gears while its on. So i turned it off, stuck it into first and drove to a tranny shop. During the trip it would occasionally grind when i tried to stick it into another gear like 2nd or 3rd. Anyway, came to the tranny shop, guy put in brake fluid into the container and said "brake fluid is only to be used to test or temporarily, replace with trans fluid", so he brought like a cup and poured it in, told me to sit there and pump my clutch so i did. After 10 minutes and a sore legs, the biotch was working. He told me something is leaking, slave or master, so i was gonna fix it later but its been over 6 months and i never fixed it and it hasnt come back yet.

C MAX

iTrader: (4)

hey vlad whats up! sorry to hear about your dilema. like the guys said check for air in the system and your slave cylinder. were you having any clutch problems before this?

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Thanks guys for replies. I have just checked out another dude's maxima and when he pressed his clutch in, the rod from the clutch cylinder extended only like 3/4 of an inch and clutch was completely disengaged. On my slave cylinder rod extends about 1,5 inch, all the way out so the rubber cover stretches almost sliding off. For this reason I tend to think it is something internal and not the leak. I completely positive I have no air in.

Thanks guys tremendously for your support. I am gonna do on more test. I will put something between the rod and the lever on tranny to push it even more back, wanna see if clutch will disengage still with pressure plate.

Vlad

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

You should not be able to move the fork end 1.5 inches. If you push it by hand, it really should only move an inch max, but more like your friends, ~3/4 inch. The fork is held on to the inside of the transmission case by a thin wire clip attached to the fork underside to a ball attached to the case. It is possible that that clip could have dislodged and the fork is not longer pivoting correctly over the ball. If you removed the two bolts holding in the slave cylinder, try moving the fork end (that metal part that the slave rode pushes) in and out. It should feel like it's pivoting. If it feels really loose, it's possible that that pivot is lost and the throwout bearing may not be doing it's job.

Here's a pic on the inside (excuse the clutch dust):

sryth

to what Mishmosh said. If the pushrod is moving, then it's a problem somewhere between the lever and disk. I'd take Mishmosh's advice; take the slave cylinder off and see if there's excessive play in the fork. You should be able to move the fork back and forth (same way the cylinder does), but not up and down.

Does the pushrod retract when you let go of the clutch pedal? If not, either your lever came out (as Mishmosh said) or there is a big problem inside the bellhousing.

Once you have the slave cylinder off, you can also try to compress the pushrod back in with a piece of wood. It sounds like your pressure plate doesn't/can't push that pushrod back in...see if you can. Just don't hit that clutch pedal w/the slave cylinder off!

Other possibilities: the fork is cracked/bent or the TO bearing fused to the input shaft. I doubt either of these are the case, but you never know.

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Yes, guys, it's the fork, I just tried what you've said. Yes, the clutch pedal goes back really lazy when I push it in, so obviously fork does not push back on the push rod. I tried it then with my hand and wo-ala! It's so loose there it's like all over the place. It goes back and forth, and side to side. Up and down really a little, like 2mm. So when I move fork with my hand I can hear and feel that something is loose there inside.
I did not have to take slave cylinder off, I could easily push the push rod back with my hand.

So as I see, in any I will have to take transmission off to get to the clutch, fork and TO bearing. So what parts I will possibly need to replace or we are talking about some things that got out of place and will have to be placed back how they were?
It's really not the best time to do this job now, I have 5 exams these week. I will take transmission off at home in a week then, my uncle, who is good with cars will help me (however he is good with domestics, that's why was not able to advise me much with maxima).

Can't thank you enough guys!

sryth

How old's the clutch? You might want to replace that while you have the tranny down.

If the fork slipped off of the pivot ball, you may just need to put it back on. The only way to find out is to drop the tranny. Personally, if I went through the trouble of dropping the transmission, I'd replace everything that looks questionable...including the clutch.

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Clutch is 110,000 miles old. I am gonna replace it with OEM one. Maybe exedy, however not sure.

What could be the reason for fork slipping off the pivot ball? Don't wanna it happen in future!

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

The wire clip that holds the fork to the ball is pretty flimsy and is even held to the fork not very securely. Why? I think it could just be one of those fluke things, but I would also question that in the process of trouble shooting and replacing the clutch line leak, that *maybe* the fork end was moved out of it's normal bounds somehow and popped off. In any case, at least you know the line leak is fixed and you have a straight-forward plan of action that in all likelihood will fix your problem--it could have been worse. The fork is pretty strong, but I hope that clip isn't damaged--I don't think you can order that separately. Definitely do as Sryth says and replace the clutch with a kit of your choosing (TO bearing, PPlate, clutch disk, alignment tool).

I would also urge you to check the very bottom of the bellhousing where it meets the motor. There is a small hole there. If there is the least bit of motor oil residue there, you may have a rear main seal leak. If you drop your tranny, that would be a good time to replace that.

chiwchan

Maybe you need a new clutch cable?

Ladzio

iTrader: (8)

Thanks Mismosh, I'll check that too!

chiwchan - what do you mean?

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Hey, I got a brand new oem clutch kit, i bought it when i had my problem listed above but found out it wasnt the clutch so i never used it. Anyway, its the complete kit, dont really wanna lose any money on it but PM me and we can make a deal instead of it sitting at my house, since ur gonna buy one anyway.