My y-pipe install - fun fun fun
10-11-2004, 02:43 AM
#1
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My y-pipe install - fun fun fun
Everything went fine up to removing the nuts connecting the Y-pipe to the catalytic converter. Got one nut off but then rounded off the other one. Decided to remove the bolts from the other end of the cat, and twisted both of those off. Sometime during this, I removed the heat shield from the bottom of the catalytic converter, and twisted off the remaining 3 bolts (one was already gone). I seriously considered just buying a new catalytic converter, but other than all the busted bolts, the old one appears to be in perfect shape. Shining a flashlight inside reveals perfectly clear screens on both ends. It took several hours with Vice Grips, a "cheater bar" (length of pipe), and finally a torch and a drill, but finally all the broken bits are removed. Now I'll need need two new bolts on one end, a tap to clean up the threads in the nuts the heat shield is mounted to, and some new bolts and nuts, in order to finish putting things back together.
Can someone tell me what I did wrong, and how other DIY'ers can avoid a similar hardship?
BTW, the car is a 98 SE with 95K miles, and all of the exhaust system (except the muffler) is original. The car had been sitting for over a day, so the exhaust was bone cold. In hindsight, maybe I should have heated it up before trying to break those nuts loose from the cat? I did spray them with WD40 an hour or so before attempting to break them loose, but that didn't seem to help.
David
Can someone tell me what I did wrong, and how other DIY'ers can avoid a similar hardship?
BTW, the car is a 98 SE with 95K miles, and all of the exhaust system (except the muffler) is original. The car had been sitting for over a day, so the exhaust was bone cold. In hindsight, maybe I should have heated it up before trying to break those nuts loose from the cat? I did spray them with WD40 an hour or so before attempting to break them loose, but that didn't seem to help.
David
10-11-2004, 02:57 AM
#2
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You did nothing wrong. Except Liquid Wrench is better for breaking bolts. Also dont feel bad numerous other people including myself had to have them removed via torch.
I think really humid places or places more proned to rust damage have this problem occur more.
Proph
I think really humid places or places more proned to rust damage have this problem occur more.
Proph
10-11-2004, 11:33 AM
#3
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How exactly IS a nut removed with a torch? I used a propane bottle torch to heat the nut, which caused it to expand, and allowed the broken stud to be removed with a pair of Vice Grips and a cheater bar. :shrug:
10-11-2004, 12:50 PM
#4
Torch is a bit too general in this instance. A handheld MAPP or Propane torch won't really do it. To remove a bolt, you need an oxy acetylene setup - which gets hot enough to melt/blow off the end of the bolt.
10-11-2004, 11:18 PM
#6
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The saga continues.
Had to drive all over the darn city to find an M6-1.0 tap to clean up the threads in the nuts that the heat shield bolts into. I kinda buggered up some of the threads removing the vestiges of the broken bolts. The good news is, the tap cost me all of $1.
Everything is back together, but now the Check Engine Light (CEL) is on. The ECU is spitting out two codes, a 1001 and a 0308. The 1001 indicates a faulty front left O2 sensor. The other is "Closed Loop Control", which may also relate to an 02 sensor.
Before starting the car for the first time, I did remove the negative terminal from the battery for a couple of minutes, and after seeing the CEL, I did the ECU reset procedure, but the light just came back on, so I suspect that something may actually be wrong.
I will double check everything tomorrow, and maybe pull and test the front two oxygen sensors with a multimeter per the instructions in the Haynes Repair Manual. I'll also double check the "fitment". My son actually bolted on the y-pipe, and maybe he didn't get it on right, or maybe the bolts/nuts need to be torqued down.
Any other suggestions?
Had to drive all over the darn city to find an M6-1.0 tap to clean up the threads in the nuts that the heat shield bolts into. I kinda buggered up some of the threads removing the vestiges of the broken bolts. The good news is, the tap cost me all of $1.
Everything is back together, but now the Check Engine Light (CEL) is on. The ECU is spitting out two codes, a 1001 and a 0308. The 1001 indicates a faulty front left O2 sensor. The other is "Closed Loop Control", which may also relate to an 02 sensor.
Before starting the car for the first time, I did remove the negative terminal from the battery for a couple of minutes, and after seeing the CEL, I did the ECU reset procedure, but the light just came back on, so I suspect that something may actually be wrong.
I will double check everything tomorrow, and maybe pull and test the front two oxygen sensors with a multimeter per the instructions in the Haynes Repair Manual. I'll also double check the "fitment". My son actually bolted on the y-pipe, and maybe he didn't get it on right, or maybe the bolts/nuts need to be torqued down.
Any other suggestions?
10-13-2004, 01:15 PM
#7
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I don't know which of the things I did fixed the O2 sensors, or whether they fixed themselves, but here are some notes:
I did not rinse out the (Warpspeed) y-pipe prior to installation. The instructions mentioned rinsing them out with soapy water to avoid some initial smoke caused by some lubricant being burned away. Could this lubricant have coated the O2 sensors, causing the ECU to report these errors?
I removed the O2 sensors and heated them to glowing red with a propane torch. I actually doubt this accomplished anything since I'm guessing they get just as hot under normal operation. They did start working after I did this, but I wonder if that was just coincidence.
I have one remaining issue. Between 3250 and 3400 RPM, I hear a buzzing sound. I called Dallas at Warpspeed and he suggested some part of the exhaust system might be touching something, such as a heat shield or mounting bracket. BTW, I did use the supplied mounting bracket, which attaches to the factory rubber mounts just ahead of the catalytic converter.
I did not rinse out the (Warpspeed) y-pipe prior to installation. The instructions mentioned rinsing them out with soapy water to avoid some initial smoke caused by some lubricant being burned away. Could this lubricant have coated the O2 sensors, causing the ECU to report these errors?
I removed the O2 sensors and heated them to glowing red with a propane torch. I actually doubt this accomplished anything since I'm guessing they get just as hot under normal operation. They did start working after I did this, but I wonder if that was just coincidence.
I have one remaining issue. Between 3250 and 3400 RPM, I hear a buzzing sound. I called Dallas at Warpspeed and he suggested some part of the exhaust system might be touching something, such as a heat shield or mounting bracket. BTW, I did use the supplied mounting bracket, which attaches to the factory rubber mounts just ahead of the catalytic converter.
10-13-2004, 01:42 PM
#8
Originally Posted by haysdb
I did not rinse out the (Warpspeed) y-pipe prior to installation. The instructions mentioned rinsing them out with soapy water to avoid some initial smoke caused by some lubricant being burned away. Could this lubricant have coated the O2 sensors, causing the ECU to report these errors?
I removed the O2 sensors and heated them to glowing red with a propane torch. I actually doubt this accomplished anything since I'm guessing they get just as hot under normal operation. They did start working after I did this, but I wonder if that was just coincidence.
I removed the O2 sensors and heated them to glowing red with a propane torch. I actually doubt this accomplished anything since I'm guessing they get just as hot under normal operation. They did start working after I did this, but I wonder if that was just coincidence.
10-13-2004, 01:53 PM
#9
You truely are a perfecionist. There is no need for that heat sheild just as there is no need for the rest of the exhaust heat sheilding. All mine is off and I'm 10Ibs lighter as a result. Its good to see that some people do it by the book though.
10-13-2004, 04:45 PM
#10
On a car with high mileage (that's not in the desert or something) the y-pipe is rarely a DIY job! I found this out with my 1995 maxima with $116k miles at the time. Went on the boards and found that most other people with similar age and/or mileage also had issues with the bolts. Cost me $60-70 bucks (i forget) to the FOUR bolts torched off! You were lucky to only have had ONE. If only you had taken it to the shop at that point, would have cost you much less aggravation...
10-13-2004, 08:48 PM
#12
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The buzzing sound between 3250 and 3400 RPM is gone. I didn't do anything. Hadn't gotten around to it. Maybe something (e.g. the flex section) just needed to get "broken in".
The only heat shield I left on is the one on the catalytic converter. It didn't really occur to me NOT to put it back on. Guess I figured it was there for a reason. But at the same time, I didn't transfer any of the heat shields from the OE y-pipe to the new one, so there is no method to my madness.
The only heat shield I left on is the one on the catalytic converter. It didn't really occur to me NOT to put it back on. Guess I figured it was there for a reason. But at the same time, I didn't transfer any of the heat shields from the OE y-pipe to the new one, so there is no method to my madness.
10-13-2004, 11:45 PM
#14
Its no fun when those bolts get literally cooked on themselves. Theres no way other than torching them...
I just got mine put in a few months ago... My flex section came cleanly off the Y pipe yesterday, I had to go today and get a new one put on... thats definately no fun
I just got mine put in a few months ago... My flex section came cleanly off the Y pipe yesterday, I had to go today and get a new one put on... thats definately no fun
10-13-2004, 11:58 PM
#15
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True. Everything else was quite straightforward. Well, except for the thing with the oxygen sensors, but I believe that issue was unique to my install, or is at least rare.
I am obviously no expert, having done this exactly ONCE, but if there is a next time, and I am stubborn enough to do it myself rather than taking it to a shop, I will follow a few "rules":
1) Apply PB "Blaster" or similar penetrating lubricant prior to attempting to remove the nuts
2) Break the nuts when the cat is hot
3) Use a 6-pt socket rather than a 12-pt socket
4) Make sure the socket is "square" with the nut
5) Not use any extensions, as this causes the socket to want to twist off the nut
6) Make sure the nut is clean, with no sand or other crud preventing the socket from seating all the way onto the nut
And as has been mentioned, even this might not help, depending on just how stuck the nuts are, but I did get one of them lose, so I have to think I could have gotten the other nut too if I hadn't rounded it off.
I am obviously no expert, having done this exactly ONCE, but if there is a next time, and I am stubborn enough to do it myself rather than taking it to a shop, I will follow a few "rules":
1) Apply PB "Blaster" or similar penetrating lubricant prior to attempting to remove the nuts
2) Break the nuts when the cat is hot
3) Use a 6-pt socket rather than a 12-pt socket
4) Make sure the socket is "square" with the nut
5) Not use any extensions, as this causes the socket to want to twist off the nut
6) Make sure the nut is clean, with no sand or other crud preventing the socket from seating all the way onto the nut
And as has been mentioned, even this might not help, depending on just how stuck the nuts are, but I did get one of them lose, so I have to think I could have gotten the other nut too if I hadn't rounded it off.
10-14-2004, 07:09 AM
#17
No it wont give you any gains, the flex section is the end of the Y pipe right before the cat. It lets the Y pipe flex with the engine.
Your engine slightly moves, even with good motor mounts so you need a flex section in the exhaust if not you'll bent the heck out of the pipes.
Your engine slightly moves, even with good motor mounts so you need a flex section in the exhaust if not you'll bent the heck out of the pipes.
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