Lets play the fued


yes that is correct

not sure how you do your math but $120 - $24 = $96

Visual Effects. Actually my body kit weighs less than 10lbs ..


keyword "perceive"

yes i can't imagine why i paid $600 (body kit) and $500 (paint) for the sole puprose of added weight to my car. You know what those 2 ID Max Subwoofers that weigh 35 lbs and i paided $350 each for $700 total because i know you are not that good at math.. in that 20 lb box.. which brings the total weight up to 90 lbs are a real bargain too.. I mean $730 because the box costs $30 now brings the cost up to $730 total was much better for added weight than the body kit i bought.

As a matter of fact, i am going home to get rid of my MicroVision TV, Pioneer Deck... diamond audio speakers.. Seats.. Shift boot and ebrake boot.. just to save weight.

You bring a great argument.. do you have a business card? just in case i need a lawyer one day?

no.. go sleep

Dunno. I change mine at 12,000 miles. They're so cheap and it's so easy to do. And it gives me an excuse for some quality time with the car.

Why would you call the dealer to get spark plugs? They overcharge and they are going to tell you whatever they want so you will buy Nissan parts from them.

i get 30% off the whole sale price at my dealer.. so it doesn't really matter to me.. although on small items such as spark plugs.. its not that much

I said by MY MATH - stop bantering about my math and start worrying about how well you read and comprehend. I already said that you were doing great if you got 30 spark plugs for 24 dollars. I can't do that, so it's a moot point. By MY MATH, I would have only saved 60 bucks.

The speakers have an advantage... sound. At least you get something. They are FUNCTIONAL.

The body kit is useless as in Non-functional. Oh wait, it "looks cool"! Great investment...

My point was, my frivolous expenditure has no disadvantage and yours does. Your frivolous expenditure was your body kit to me... you paid money for something with no advantage and an actual disadvantage.

So, you spent 1100 dollars (ohhh I did that math all by myself – I added the price of the paint in case you didn’t get that) on a body kit. You got no functional value whatsoever... and no matter how you argue it, it increased the weight of your car. I spent 60 bucks BY MY MATH (read that twice so it sinks in, I typed it slow, so maybe you'll get it this time) and I have no disadvantage. As a matter of fact, according to the post I made earlier, I think I have a superior product.

So, basically, you are calling my 60 dollar overspending frivolous and I am saying that is laughable. Oh wait; it was 96 dollars by YOUR MATH. So, that is 16 dollars a year instead of 10 dollars. Now I see the light… I could have saved myself 16 dollars (not 10) and increased the chance of misfire by taking the time to change my spark plugs (needlessly) 3 more times. It all makes sense now… :rolleyes:

body kit, = better looks (doesnt matter what you spend)
copper plugs = cheaper to buy, performs as well as stock
platinum plugs = more expensive to buy, performs as well as coppers just last twice as long.


hey sprintmax, loose 10 lbs and you can justify your body kit.

Where have you guys found NGK at? I am trying to look online and can't find stores that carry them. I am in Dallas.

hold on ya'll. where are you going with all this feud? we all own the maxima's. and proud are we about our cars. we should all try to help each other out. don't criticize each other for "wording" mistakes and personal preferences. they like copper, let them go copper. so let the plat groupies go plat. just list the pro's and con's you know to the questioning guy. let him decide. ain't got to spit fire like that. it's no use to be mean.

Alright, so Sprintmax has his original coils. Who has been using coppers as long as I have been using stockers and has their original O2, original KS, and original coils... with at least close to the same miles while getting 26-28mpg.

If there is at least one person, then my argument is dead, and I can say that I am just lucky. My exhaust outliving my O2 sensors will be a luck thing and people using copper plugs have the same chance.

I am not being a smart a$$ here either. I seriously would like to know, because it has been in the back of my mind for the years that I have seen all the posts and made the connection in my head (one loosely based on my own perceptions - as I have admitted - although I have provided an argument against the coppers longevity).

The only other caveat being, that the coppers perform as well as stock MAYBE in the first 10-15,000 miles. After that, there is no way.

I saw someone replaced theres every 12K miles and I'd believe they have the same performance as stock doing that.

He doesn't have to lose 10lbs to justify it. He doesn't have to justify anything he does to his car... nor do I. If I wanna spend 150 dollars a peice on spark plugs, so what? He wants a 600 dollar body kit? Whatever...

However... if you want to cast stones, then be prepared to duck. Like I already said a couple times, it is about perception. He thinks I am wasting money on spark plugs - I think he is wasting money on a body kit. Doesn't mean I am changing spark plugs and I doubt he is out unbolting his body kit right now.

Since YOUR Math yields a different answer from regular math.. you may want to look into asking your local college offering it as a extra course. Your type of Math may benefit some peopel right around tax time.

By your theory.. couldn't have have bought cheaper and lighter speakers for less money? i am still spending more money and getting added weight.

If you think buying modifications for your car wether they be functional or non functional as an investment, then you are as wacked out as your math calculations. I didn't purchase anything on my maxima as an investment.. that would just be plain assinine. As i said.. visual effects. I am not sure if you picked up on that the first time.

No. You are comparing apples to oranges. If the body kit served a purpose such as areo dynamics and i bought body kit (a) lets call it copper for $200 and you bought body kit (b) lets call it platinum for $1200 and they both provided the same functionality, then yes now we are comparing apples to apples, and in that instant you would still be wasting your money, so i don't know why you are comparing body kits and spark plugs. Copper plugs do the same thing Platinum Plugs do at a cheaper price. So what the hell doe that have to do with body kits?


What you fail to understand is, your disadvantage is paying more money for less performance. The Copper and Platinum plugs do the same thing. You are just paying more for them. Have i lost you? Ok.. lets break it down.

Platinum Plugs $30 at 30,000 miles
Copper Plugs $6 at 30,000 miles

Platinum Plugs allow you to drive the car for 30,000 miles
Copper Plugs allow you to drive the car for 30,000 miles.

You have spent $24 more for 0 increase in performance or functionality. Note i said INCREASE.

Say you keep your car for 300,000 miles. 30,000 miles at $24 extra will be .. I will let you do the math ;) pm me if you can't.. i will be more than happy to calculate it for you.

huh? say what?

You getting a misfire because you neglected to change your plugs after 30k miles is the same thing as you neglecting to change your plugs after 60k miles. Your Argument makes no damn sense

Coppers for the last 45K miles. Original coils, Knock sensor..had to replace one o2 sensor. But I also don't think the spark plugs have anything to do with the coils, knock sensor, or o2 sensor failing.

that is correct

See thats your problem. You have no proof. You are arguing statistics and theories and you have no proof, no remote sign of proof.. no indication of proof.. you are just forming one big as$umption

By your own as sumptions.. lets say majority of the owners of our maxima's are purchasing the plugs from the dealership the same way you are doing. It means that 90% of the cars on this board are running Platinum Plugs. By your same wacked out theory, then the majority of the coil pack problems would be cars with platinum plug cars. You see why arguing with no proof makes no sense now?


where is your PROOF?


His car is boosted. He has a reason for replacing them so often.

Its not the same concept, but i already explained that to you in a prior post.

Again.. HELLO.. ANYONE HOME?

Alright I’ll bite. Although you’re obviously not reading anything I am saying and just ejaculating out of your mouth whatever comes out of your brain.

Using my math, it would cost about 12 dollars per spark plug change (after I gave you the benefit and said they would run about 2 dollars a piece and I am not using tax, just FYI)

At 180,000+ miles I would have had to change my spark plugs 5 times using your standard of 30,000 miles.
5 * 12 = $60 (You can use a calculator if I lose you)
That is my math.

Using my math again, it would cost about 60 dollars per spark plug change to use platinum’s and I would have to do that twice in 180,000 miles using a 60,000 miles interval.
2 * 60 = $120 (again, use a calculator if you find it necessary)

That is a difference of 60 dollars in six years. So I spent 10 bucks a year to use a superior product.

As for the speakers. No. My point was that you had no advantage… no function. Looking cool is not a function, it does not perform better than it did previously. The speakers have a function and while they do have a disadvantage (more or less depending on your priorities), the point is that you get something that actually does something besides looking cool. You spent money for the sole purpose of aesthetics and added weight to your car. I spent money for piece of mind and there is NO additional disadvantage.

I have provided technical reasons that would show the platinum product as being superior even after 15,000 miles. Do the research yourself, don’t take my word for it. So for 10 bucks a year, I get a product that performs longer and better than the one you got.

Let’s use 300,000 miles why don’t we, since you suggested it.

300,000 / 60,000 = 5 and you get the car with a set of spark plugs, so that is 4 spark plug changes
4 spark plug changes at 60 dollars a piece = 240 dollars.

300,000 / 30,000 = 10 you get the car with a set and we’ll assume you used those for 60, so we’ll go with 8 spark plug changes.
8 spark plug changes at 12 dollars a piece = 96 dollars

The difference is 144 dollars. We’ll say it took you ten years (for easy math) to go 300,000 miles. So I paid 14.40 a year more than you did for spark plugs. That’s giving you the 60,000 on the original spark plugs, which I didn’t do earlier as well.

Now, as my technical post stated. At 15,000 miles there is an extra 500 volts needs to make the same spark on a copper plug.

Now, the 240,000 miles you have been driving with copper, you were driving 120,000 miles on a spark plug that was already halfway gone. You were driving 60,000 miles on spark plugs that were close to the end of their life AND MORE LIKELY TO MISFIRE.

In my scenario, I am using plugs that have an almost imperceptible voltage change at 60,000 miles let alone halfway through that. Plus, my plugs could go to 100,000 theoretically. So I am barely at it’s halfway mark when I change anyway.

So, you save 14 bucks a year and drive at least an extra 60,000 miles on crappy plugs.

Now, if you want to actually add something to this discussion, go out and research copper and platinum plugs and lemme know what you come up with. Cause I came up with them being an inferior product but for maybe the first 5000 miles (where they perform as good, but not better than platinum). After that, they are degrading, needing more voltage (hard on the coils), not burning well (hard on the O2 sensors – unburnt gas), and decreasing your fuel economy (hey, at 300,000 miles, a couple mpg would have made up for a lot of gas).

Show Me The Money

Id rather spend a few extra bucks then spend the time changing spark plugs.
Some would say different.

Platinum lasts longer.
Copper's spark is hotter.
Are there any more facts that can be proven about this issue?

Please i missed it.. Where is your proof of Copper being an inferior plug to Platinum.

If I buy 12 Platinum Plugs to last me for 60,000 miles vs your 6 Platinum Plugs to last you for 60,000 miles. I am still spending less money than you are in that 60,000 mile interval and correct me if i am wrong. Copper is a better Conductor than Platinum and its has been proven time and time again Copper plugs provide a better spark than Platinum Plugs.

So what have we learned?

You bought 6 plugs for 60,000 miles
I bought 12 plugs for 60,000 miles.

I paid less than you did and i am getting a better spark.

So until you can prove to me that

1) Platinum performs better than Copper
2) How and Why Copper is inferior to Platinum Plugs
3) Copper plugs cause 02 and coil pack failures.

You are ice skating up a hill while pissing in the wind.

Some Proof please.. so YOU go do some research

still hasnt proven anything. everyone click the http://forums.maxima.org/images/buttons/reputation.gif and give him a "I disapprove"

so we have learned you are lazy. What more can you add to this discussion?

sounds like you have a serious attitude problem.
im lazy? do you have proof? or are you just pissing in the wind?

OK. Ive added facts to this dicussion. im trying to stick to the facts and prevent misinformation.

First, I said in the very beginning of this thread like eleventy billion times that I was basing everything on superstition. I said if it was luck than I was sticking to it, cause it worked. Go back and read again.

I'm not arguing statistics or theories. I said I thought it was like this because I had a supersition based on threads that I had seen and anyone posting to the contrary would dissolve my argument.

I also posted some interesting FACTS (look them up) that copper plugs degrade much faster than platinum. That makes them an inferior product to me and I'll stick to platinum, thank you very much. If they degrade faster than platinum, then they require more voltage to make the same spark. I doubt it's a problem with HEI, but generally speaking, it would either be hard on your coils, or you would start misfiring (or just running a little crappy at least) towards the end of the lifespan of copper plugs.

I see MAYBE a 1mpg increase in gas mileage when I change spark plugs at 60,000 (usually a little more) miles.

Also, the last time I checked, they were like 13 bucks at my local dealer... so I can assure you I am not going there to get them. Cheapest I can get is 10 bucks shopping around.

It is the same concept. Lemme break it down for you.

I bought a superior (backed by facts) product.
-> It lasts longer
-> It has better spark at 60,000 miles than copper at 15,000

YOU said I was wasting money

Then, I said (basically) that you were wasting money on a body kit.
-> No advantage
-> It adds weight

The fact is, I am spending a hundred or so more dollars on piece of mind (at the LEAST) which I already stated early on the thread another eleventy billion times... and you got something that might make you happy, but has no function whatsoever.

I was simply pointing out that you telling me I was wasting money was ironic... and it is. Because, in my opinion you wasted 1100 dollars on a body kit and got nothing. That's my opinion.

In your opinion I wasted money on a product that is superior to the one you are saving money on.

You gotta admit, it's kind of odd to find someone in a car enthusiast's forum who would rather pay money than change spark plugs. Changing spark plugs on a Saturday morning is my idea of recreation (i.e. if there's too little wind for sailing the Nacra).

Entropy. dont take it to heart. when you have an opinion or comment that is different than that of the majority of ppl on the .org it turns into this. Stick with what works with your MAXIMA I know I will do the same.

So far the facts we know:
platinum plugs last 60k
copper plugs last 30k
platinum plugs cost more
platinum plugs are nissan recommended
copper plugs are not nissan recommended
copper plugs provide a hotter spark

Man, I've said it again and again that I was running off of superstition. Usually I stay out of these threads anyway, cause it works for me and you all aren't going to convince me any different anyway.

Then you came on up to the podium and spouted off with your attitude and I figured I would have some fun. Which I have...

I stated earlier that at 15,000 miles, copper plugs have a higher voltage requirement than platinum. I looked it up already, you've provided no proof to the contrary. The ball is still in your court.

Anyway, 2 sec on google:
http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/t..._single_ground

Hardly. The board I usually frequent is slow... so I posted instead of read this time.

You forgot that to keep a copper plug providing a hotter spark you would have to change it at a greater than 30,000 mile interval. Platinum is making pretty much the same spark at 60,000 as it was at 0. Copper requires a 1000 more volts to do the same thing by then.

Yah I feel what you are saying. I like tinkering to but rather spend time doing other things. I used to be a real car audio buff, then I started to like speed, thrills & racing. Now I own a house and the car is like an A to B type of thing for me. I never thought I would say that. I push the max now and then and take a redlight with someone when I get the opportunity but its far from my main focus.

I am here because I own a maxima and enjoy hearing reading about it. Im not a mechanic. I do alot of "DIY" but try to avoid it when I can.

Let it drop guys... bottom line:

60k miles with plats: 60 bucks + 1 spark plug swap
60k miles with coppers: 25 bucks + 2 spark plug swaps

If the 35 bucks savings worth it to you and you don't mind doing the replacement every 30k, use copper.... o/wise use the plats... everyone has different priorities that influence how they choose spend their time/money.

based on superstition never won a court case to the best of my knowledge


Keywords: Thought, superstition..

in other words you are full of sh!t


I don't need to look them up.. you need to post them... YOu can post facts and have no links or studies to back them up.... again you are pissing in the wind..

that still doesn't prove that copper doesn't do the same thing

i can get copper plugs for 60 cents if i shop around.. whats your point

please do

You still havn't proven that fact.. it has a better spark at 30,000 miles that copper has at 30,000 miles

and i killed your first point of lasting longer when i showed you 12 plugs still are cheaper than your 6 plugs which are garunteed to last the same amount of mileage.

but you are

Again apples to oranges.. you can't compare body kits to spark plugs .. i already noticed i can't explain that to you so i am going to leave that alone..

exactly.. you keep spending that extra money to "convince" yourself. I will stick to the proven facts and save my money

I explained to you it was for a visual effect. It may mean nothing to you.. but it meant something to me. When you continue living life, you will understand that some people pay for things that mean nothing to others yet mean something to you. Not the same exact thing that functions the same and cost more.



i am..

let me try to explain it to you..

IF they came out with some new 98 octane gas that lasted 50 mpg instead of 93 that lasted 26 mpg. Would you pay $20 a gallon for 98 just because you didn't have to fill up as often instead of $2 for 93?

am i getting through to you?

so let me get this straight..

in your car.. if i am correct..

you use Nissan Oil Filters
you use Nissan Oil
you use 91 Octane
you use plat plugs
you have stock rims and tires
you have not made any modifications to your car from it left the factory...

if i am incorrect.. then you theor of using nissan recommend plugs is bias and has no premise

We've also learned that you're a prick who can't admit that he's wrong, or at least not more right than someone else. Here's how I see things:

Plat plugs will last at least 60K miles and still perform as well on mile 60K as they did on mile 1.

Copp plugs will last at least 30K miles, but will begin to decrease in performance by at least 15K miles, if not sooner.

This decrease in performance may or may not affect coil life, but will definately affect fuel mileage and power, which is obvious by the instant "gains" you see when you change them at 30K miles.

So, from my point of view, you are saving money, but you are also losing performance and fuel mileage after the first 15K miles or so, and have to change your plugs twice as often.

This is not an argument that anyone is going to "win", but as a mod, you should be more open minded, and less of a "penis" head during a discussion. Neither you nor Entropy is more right than the other, both types of plugs have their ups and downs, but for my money/car, I'll stick with Plats too.

wether i have an attitude problem or not is moot.

The fact is you choose not to use copper plugs because you don't feel like changing them often.

Most people average 20,000 - 30,000 miles a year. If spending 15 mins changing your plugs once a year is too much for you, then obviously you are lazy.

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/cm/cm120032.htm

<snip>
As the electrodes wear, the air gap across which the spark must jump becomes wider and wider. The gap on a standard spark plug grows about 0.00063m. to 0.000126 in. for every 1,000 miles of normal driving. And the wider the gap, the greater the voltage needed to jump the gap. On standard plugs, the firing voltage requirements creep up about 500 volts for every 10,000 to 15,000 miles of driving. Eventually, the plug may need more volts to fire than the coil can produce, causing the plug to misfire.

Using platinum almost eliminates electrode wear. Platinum is expensive, but it can double or even triple a spark plug's normal service life - from 30,000 to 45,000 miles for a standard plug up to 60,000 to 100,000 miles or more with platinum. Most aftermarket plug suppliers do not make specific mileage claims for their platinum plugs, but say to follow the OEM replacement intervals - which in most cases is 100,000 miles for platinum plugs.
<snip>

1) calling the admin of the board a prick is not a very smart thing to do

thats correct i made that clear

who has proven that?

proof?

proof?

I hardly drive my car hard anymore.. so even if i was losing preformace.. i damn well couldn't see it

i am not a moderator.. lets clear that up.

I am right about one thing. He is wasting his money.

Their is only one mention of copper in that article.. and its a copper/gold combination. Standard plug != copper

i am sure you heard of nickel plugs. For a long time Nickel plugs were the standard plug for many spark plug makers. Please be more specific

Alright, well the article does say that platinum plugs pretty much have no loss (perceptable anyway) as they age.

Nickel and Copper are right next to each other on the periodic table - how much difference do you think there is in there corrosion specifics.

Their atomic weight is almosy identical and platinum's is still 1.5 times heavier than copper. Which is pretty much what it is with nickel.

Edit: Correction, I jumped the gun. Platinum is 3 times heavier than copper or nickel.

I don't care if you're the admin. If you act like a prick, you get called a prick.



It's been proven by every person here who posts "I just changed my plugs and now I have more power and better fuel mileage." You're not gaining anything, you're just getting back what you had lost as your plugs started to become inefficient.

Same "proof" as above. If you change your plugs, and you "gain" performance or fuel mileage, like many people here will verify, you have just proven that your old plugs were not functioning properly.


Same. You may not notice that you are losing performance, but you notice the difference once you change plugs. If you can honestly say that you can run your copper plugs for 30K miles or more, and not get a gain in performance and/or fuel mileage after you replace them, then congratulations, thousands of people out there would like to know your secret. I run platinum plugs in all 3 of my vehicles, and can honestly say that I get the same mileage on mile 60K as I do on mile one. I never had that with copper plugs. I ran my old Chevy truck for 90K on copper plugs, and was always thrilled when I "gained" fuel mileage every 35-45K when I changed plugs. Since I went platinum, I have the same improved mileage all the time, and I'm sitting at 286,000 miles right now.


Like I said, you may not notice the loss, but most people notice the "gain."

That's probably a good thing.

That's your opinion. I feel that you are wasting money by using a product that wears out faster, has to be changed more often, causes you to lose performance during it's shorter lifespan, and is installed in an engine against the manufacturer's reccommendations.

Yah thats one reason among a few to choose from. No hard feelings. Im not trying to side with anyone here.

Id rather spend my time doing something else than changing spark plugs yes. That is a fact. Does that prove im lazy? NO. Please more proof. LOL.

Dont take it to heart. Im not really looking for an answer just mearly responding to you as you do to others, calling for PROOF.

So far the facts we know:
platinum plugs last 60k
copper plugs last 30k
platinum plugs cost more
platinum plugs are nissan recommended
copper plugs are not nissan recommended
copper plugs provide a hotter spark
copper plugs degrade over usage and required more voltage to provide the desired hotter spark

you guys win.. i am wrong :) keep buying plat plugs :)

Here's something interesting:

Decided to change my plugs last weekend. Went to nissan dealer who charge 13 bucks/each plat spark plug. Called another Nissasn dealer $11buck per plat spark plug.

Checked my car and it has Bosch +2 plugs in there. So i ran into R&S Strauss who had Bosch +4 Plat spark plugs for half the price of dealers ($6 a pop)... So being a smart guy that i am, i bought these and replaced my plugs.... VIOLA!!!!... Got better plugs and saved a ****load of money. Car's happy, i'm happy...

Car has 70k and don't seem like plugs ever been changed. Accelleration seems to be alot more responsive now with the new plugs....IMO- don't ever go to dealers to buy plugs... they cost more and u can get better ones cheaper else where.

I am sorry to break this to you.. but Maxima's don't like Bosch Plugs