Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Over a year ago I was in an frontal accident. I took the car to a very reputable repair shop. At the time, it appeared they did a fantastic job. They got everything within spec for a small fee of $5600. The paint is amazing and the idea that the car was in an accident rarely crossed my mind.

This thought rarely crossed my mind until about three months ago when I was jacking up my car. I was lifting it from the center jack point and I was noticing that the engine was moving a lot. I didn't think much of it. I got under the car and there was a big @ss rip all along the lower radiator support. I was freaked out. The next day I brought the car to the repair shop and showed them the issue. They put it up on the lift. They agreed that there was extensive damage. They refused to fix it however because they thought the seperation was caused by hitting the engine cross member on the ground. I explained that I have not bottomed out since the accident. They would here nothing of it and sent me on my way after giving me a $700 quote to fix it.

I wasn't about ready to shell out that cash for something that I thought I could fix myself. I and a friend spent about an hour welding it together. We welded the cross member to the rad support with three two inch beads. This did an amazing job and even improved the rigidity of the chassis. We knew that it wasn't extremely strong but it would hold until we could do more extensive work when the tranny and engine came out. Well the time for them to come out is now. I was jacking the car up today and heard a horrible crack. Sure enough, the area had ripped even more. The beads held but the sheet metal of the rad support had ripped just outside the weld.

Why the fxck did Nissan use such thin @ss sheet metal in an area that is going to harness the engine? This point has got to experience extreme load and yet they used 1/16th inch sheet metal. This bit of sheet metal is supposed to hold up a 600Ibs+ Engine and Tranny plus the force it exerts as the vehicle turns or hits bumps or when the beast is unleased and it trys to break free? It really is hillarious when you think about it. The engine cross member is thick @ss steel. It is very beefy. Yet, it is connected to the frame by mere sheet metal. WTF?

Below are pictures for your enjoyment.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

More pics.



Look at this! My finger fits in there. WTF? How is the engine supposed to be held up by one spot weld? The sheet metal itself is so flimsy that I can move it easily with my fingers.


Is this the number and location of spot welds that Nissan uses from the factory? Do you think that this repair shop did shatty work? If I can prove that they didn't use the correct welding technique or location I'm going to demand that they fix it properly for free.

Okay. So I know that I have to clamp it down and weld all the seams real nice. Plus, I have to reinforce it somehow. How do the knowledgable ones suggest I reinfore it. How do I begin welding if I'm not confident that the chassis is sitting level and aligned?

Has this happened to anyone else? I'm tempted to trailer the thing to the dealer and pop the empty hood. Then I'll point to the weak strutural design and demand a Z as compensation. You guys think it will work?

NismoTunin

whoa... man i never noticed when i was under my car... wow thats pretty weak there... i got to check this out on my car and see how my supports are doin mines 95 also... thanks for the info man... good luck with the repairs.. sorry i dunno anything about welding...

urmab

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the info im goin to check it out I wounder if its a defect from factory or something if so there is a big for recalls because i dont feel like having my crossmemer disconecting while im goin 80-90 on the highway because if that happens there would no longer be me then

NismoTunin

hey i just relized once when i was under the hood and i reved the engine.. i felt engine push the front of the car down.. which probably streeses out that support bar alot... hmm this is not good at all..

Ninos_Maxima

iTrader: (5)

Wow, I found a problem with my car after the accident, I took it the the shop and they repaired it no charge. The shop is preety reputable, Gerber Auto Repair, They have branches all over the US I think. But Damn, if they dont repair your car, I see a good law suit comming on. Report it to your insurance, Tell them They didnt fix something, or they did and they didnt do it right, Hopefully you have State Farm or AllState, Or Geiko, some big insurance firm. Get a lawyer and give them one more warning!

d280c

I had my lower radiator support changed completely b/c of rust for $400 including parts and labour. I think you should do the same instead of welding. A local autobody shop willingly did it for me.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

D280, that piece is welded in there anyway. The new one will only be the same flimsy material. I plant on reinforcing it. There is no way in he!l I'm paying for it out of pocket. I'm still wondering if this is the OEM location for the spot weld. There is only one. Anybody?

Dave B

I hate to be blunt, but there is no reason why this is Nissan's fault. The OEM setup is plenty strong to bare the load. You were in an accident and the repair shop did a poor job fixing the car. That attachment point steel should have been replaced.

The front attachment point doesn't support all the weight of the engine. It's one of four supporting points. There are four engine mounts, two on the cross member and two attaching to the frame rails. The front attachment point only deals with about 120lbs of weight. The engine mounts and bolt bushing between the crossmember and chassis absorb a majority of the twisting torque. 1/8" steel can easily support that kind of load.

No one else has reported any type of problems like this, wrecked or not. The fact that you welded the crossmember to the raditor support wasn't a good idea at all. The OEM setup use two bolts with rubber bushings. When you welded it together you took away the bushings which allowed for a lot more chassis fatigue.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the actual load values Dave. I know that there are the other points. I was exagerating a bit. This is not 1/8" steel. It is definitely 1/16". It is so thin I can move it with two fingers. 1/8 does not do this unless its 1000 degress. Ha.

Thats what I needed to hear Dave. I'll go to the repair shop and make them fix it. The whole lower radiator support was replaced due to the accident.

Please keep in mind that it ripped before I welded it originally meaning that the welding had nothing to do with the original failure.

SHADETREE95

I noticed mine is all rusted out right in the middle (northern car) I thought about strapping it and welding it back together. But then again I'm probably better off bringing it to the body shop since everything else on it seems to be tight considering 186xxx mi. I really didn't think I'd have her this long the max just keeps going.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Thought I'd bring this back up for others with this problem. I fixed it myself because my dumb@ss insurance company can like my nuts. I made a plate out of 1/4 steel. This is the very long piece that is still bare metal in the pics. Drilled a hole through it all and sent a bolt all the way through with washers on both sides. This made it much sturdier by itself. Then I laid some tacks on the plate and washer to keep it all in place. Then I laid a bead along the seem between the crossmember and the rad support. I had a tough time not melting the thin sheet metal. I'm not very good at welding yet so a buddy did that part. He had to stop every couple seconds and let it cool off otherwise it just burned right through. He also said that he laid the majority of the material on the black crossmember and hung it over a bit onto the support. Tomorrow I'm going to send some pop rivets through the seam to the side of the crossmember. It is going to be solid as hel!. I don't need no stinkin' ES subframe bushings!


I'll get more pics of the bottom tomorrow. I wasn't able to do much of anything usefull under there. There was no substaintial sheet metal left to connect the crossmember to.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Does anyone know where I can buy a radiator support??? Mine is also rotted through horribly and it is causing my clutch to chatter very bad. I'll take pics later.

Tim96I30t

iTrader: (2)

^^^Radiator support on fleabay under $100...you could just take it out and cut the rust out and weld a plate over the cut out spot. Either that or junkyard there is one in Berkley with complete front end. You put a mustang muffler on your I30???? hows it sound and what size pipes??

C MAX

iTrader: (4)

i dont speak of it much but i replace my radiator support every couple of yrs. thats why i wonder how people are doing 11's in this car and not ripping apart thier radiator support. mine is damaged right now right down the middle it split. i had welded the week points and it stressed out the rest of the support.broaner i say the same thing how the f do you have a solid a frame mounted to this thin a$$ piece of metal. im gonna weld it one more time go to the track and then replace the whole thing again this coming summer.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Just figured pics of a support junk in a different way would make this more interesting. All 4th gen's rot badly right here, wtf, I wish the infiniti corrosion warranty was 10 years not 7, cause this is deffinitly considered 'perforated rust'. I get a kick out of the road trash trapped in there.

Sweet, I didn't know they were that easy to come across. Yeah the Mustang muffler sounds really nice, it's nowhere near ricey honda obnoxiousness, it actually sounds beefy. No resonator either, I haven't measured the pipe yet, but it's only a little bigger than stock but it has much nicer bends, for $150 I'm not complaining, they did a really good job hanging the muffler and they didn't fry any computers.

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

Broaner....it looks like the rip is coming from the outside not the engine side. If the rip is due to stress from the engine's weight, then the rip would be coming from the inside (the engine side). While I was looking at the pics, it had crossed my mind that when I pull in to park at a shopping mall or up on a curb, I'd usually tap the concrete block on the ground with that very same spot of cross-member. Sometimes, if the concrete block or curb is higher, I would tap it with the radiator support beam. I'm not slammed but lowered by a little over 1.5" . Has this happened to you? I have been trying to avoid doing this but I have this habit of crawling all the way up while parking.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you ever need to take the engine out, it has to come out from the top now

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

I used to do it every so often, I park "shallow" most of the time now....

86maxima96

iTrader: (10)

i'd get my money back and go elsewhere. they do shoddy work if that's the case. stay away

vsamoylov

damn now that is alot of rust. i would replace the center beam as well as the upper and lower radiator support. now dont go and buy the parts from ebay. only buy OEM parts made by nissan. parts that are not OEM will have horrible fitment which could lead to all the body parts being crooked.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

That's not alot of rust.



THAT's alot of rust.

greengrass215

spray some anti rust before it get rusty looking like that. I spray some anti rust on that beam every time i change my oil, and my beam look no where like that rusty.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?!?!!!

WOW!! You could use that as a hiding spot!!!

DDELINQUENTONE

i had my lower rad support changed twice
the first time the body shop used a cheap aftermarket replacement wich fell
apart within six months i made them replace it using a oem lower rad supports
its been about 2.5 yrs since an still good as new i also had then spray undercoating to prevent anymore rust i paid $450.00

Stillen Maxima

iTrader: (50)

All i can say is WTF!!!!

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Holy ****. You guys need to invest in an unlimited car wash pass from now on.

I never hit the parking block but I did hit driveways once or twice coming in from the street.

Just for future reference I'd like to remind you all that this thread is very old. So for all the current type questions I have to direct them elsewhere because I no longer drive the Max. I actually only drove it for about 2,000 miles after this fix before I pulled the motor

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

If the repair of your vehicle was paid for via an insurance claim, call the insurance company and have them take a look at it. If the adjuster thinks that damage was caused by the accident, they will make the shop repair the car for you.

You need a new lower radiator support.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Here is what I did with mine. It too was all rusted especially around the mounting bolts.

3" x 3/16" flat plate on the bottom and 2 1/2" x 3/16" angle iron on the top and front. The top was fine but trying to find something solid to weld to is a problem. The whole support is made of pretty thin material.

Juicey

I feel like my car has a dirty secret now that I can't let any American car loving people know about.

Guess I better check the supports before my engine drops out. Nice Nissan, very nice.

vsamoylov

i love having a car from cali because theres no snow or ice or salt there.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

i've noticed more 95-96's hae this problem.

That pic was from my parts car, and thats precisely the reason i kept it a parts car.

My 98 has no rust on the rad support.

Tim96I30t

iTrader: (2)

Wait a few years the 98 will look the same, of course 95s will have more rust they are older.

Tim96I30t

iTrader: (2)

Your driving with this.....or is this an old pic. The rust preventer in a can sprays clear turns black works great to prevent this. I did under my car and the rear beam while my exhaust was off.

Stuntin' 101

this is a very common problem... ive had mine welded also.

James007

I would have never know that was a common problem... hmm im gonna check my car now

Torgus

iTrader: (10)

what he said.

JoeB

Funny I've never heard anything on this forum about this. I thought I was the only one. I just repaired mine tonight. I welded a 2"X3" piece of angle iron to mine. It really tightened up the car. Last year I noticed some rust on it and last week I was under the car and it grew to a 2" hole. Funny thing is the bolts for the crossmember weren't even rusted they came right out.

69CHARGER_RT

Crap, this is what Im going through with mine right now.

My rust is about the same as the first set of rust pics......the second pic is downright scary! What is holding those bolts in!!??

Those that welded in a new piece or repaired the old one.....I'm assuming the whole front of the car has to come apart no?

Do they sell just a lower section or do you have to get the whole support & cut out the section you need?

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

lol that pic is from my parts car, and the whole lower rad support will be replaced.