Technosquare's explanation why intakes do NOT work on Maximas...
 

Found this blurb off their site explaining the benefits of a modified ECU. Comments?


Changed air intake system
One of the major problems on this car was a feedback system that compensates for modifications. The oxygen sensors detects fuel mixture and will tell the ECU to richen up or lean out the mixture. This correction factor was way too wide, so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!
We adjusted the correction factor to reduce that compensation reaction. Our tests showed consistent power and torque improvement following installation of an intake system.

I have heard that there are certain losses with intakes over the stock steup. Wouldnt suprise me if it were true.....

They may just be compensating for the loss.

I like my CAI with OEM Midpipe setup. Out of all the ones I have had, this one is the best.

If the problem is a/f ratios due to more air, then a Y would be more of a problem. But no one as ever dyno'd a power loss with one. More air out = more air in. Regardless of which end is repsonsible for it.

Yup. My custom behind the headlight cai + stock midpipe is my favorite too. :jump:

The way I read the paragraph is as follows:

If you install an aftermarket intake on a maxima with a stock ECU, there is no hp gain (sometimes a loss).

If you install an aftermarket intake on a maxima with a modified ECU, there IS a hp gain (above that which was obtained via the ECU).

makes sense

it makes some kind of sense because if u think about it the computer has its own parameters... meaning if all of a sudden there is too much air introduced the computer will not adjust fast enough.. this is not the case when you add a supercharger because it works mostly when you are under full throttle.. and under full throttle conditions the computer just says f*ck it.. and the parameters aren’t used... thats why tunning the ecu would give the computer new values to go along with...

Think about it. Do you guys think an intake alone would be enough of a change to do anything? I bet it's the midpipe that might change the resonance frequency, requiring different a/f ratios at xxx rpm.

Can anyone who has experienced a similar scenario first hand shed some light here?

Has anyone tried an intake before and after an ECU upgrade and noticed a difference in the butt dyno?

What a bunch of crap... it's just TS trying to sell ECUs guys. The ECU is not Skynet, it doesn't know what part you put on the car to make it flow more air. Whether it be intake, exhaust, ypipe, or a turbocharger. More air means more power period. The ECU doesn't know how the air is getting in there, it simply sees a certain amount of air and then disperses a certain amount of fuel. That is all.

The issue with intakes is whether or not aftermarket intakes flow more air than the stock airbox, some people say they do and some people say they don't. TS knows this and is latching onto this uncertainty to sell more ECUs. Not a bad marketing ploy. Unfortunately to anyone who knows how ECUs work, it's an obvious load of bs.

It's called the placebo effect.

"I added a mod that 50% of org members say adds power...it must make my car go faster!"

*Get in car, drive a little bit*

"OMFG, I can't believe the difference!!!!11!!"

Dyno shows 1-2whp lol

false advertising at its finest?

HAHA. sounds like me after i installed my short ram intake. :chuckle:

Hey, give me a break though! I needed to somehow justify that $90 i spent! (the aggressive sound wasn't cuttin it)

Justify it like this. The fastest maximas all have intakes :D

im with you on this one if you add ecu+intake or any mod you will get larger gains as far losing hp maybe if you do a warm air intke or if your buying carp for parts.

Again thats at full throttle.... emissions are overlooked by the computer and all values are neglected.....

Yep. That's why things like bad O2 sensors don't affect performance at all.

this is how i think of it. AEM makes one of the best stuff around. Their by-pass valve is amazing. They most likely have an intake for every car out there that ppl mod. Since, why would a manufacturere manufactur anything if noone is going to buy it. there are plenty of maxima's out there that are modded. Yet AEM has no intake for us. This makes only one conclusion for me, it is not worth it fro them to make an intake since no one will buy it because they cannot provide hp gain from the dyno charts just by adding their intake. Even tho they had just made an AEM V2 system which creates a better smother flow for more HP. They don't even make mid-pipes or ANYTHING because they KNOW its not worth it. However, they are making one i believe for the 6th gen. it says on their website that its coming soon.

That could be a reason, but I think it's more likely that they don't give a crap about our piddly little market. There are already a bunch of intake options for our cars, and the fact that the maxima marking is probably on the order of 0.1% of the civic market for instance, it's alot more trouble than it's worth.

isnt it the 02 sensors that mostly adjust this?

...which is why the stock airbox is best for overall daily driveability (not at WOT).

Sure they do. Especially with fan induction.

the ecu shouldnt have to do with it, its the maf, so if you really wanted to make it effective, wouldnt you get a better maf? i can kind of see the ecu thing, but maf makes more sense. the a/f is just equations, so it would just have to have a maf that would not get "overloaded" or not be able to sense the exact amount of air. kind of like what boost does, and why you want something like emanage

Sorry. I don't see your logic. The MAF gives its readings to the ECU. If that is the case, how can one MAF be "better" than another? Shouldn't one correctly functioning MAF give the same readings as another one that is correctly functioning? There is a reason companies don't sell aftermarket/upgraded MAF's.

AEM is kinda funny. I was a member of the Toyotanation.com website and they kept at AEM until they made a CAI for the Camry. Now if there is any car that would not benefit from an intake it's definately a Camry. I can't come up with a reason that they wouldn't make one for the Maxima. IMO most people put on an intake and like that way it sounds so much that they want to believe it adds a lot of power.

the ecu uses a sensor to figure out a/f ratio. uses equations. why does it matter how much air gets in? and it would only let the engine get what it wanted. not like forced induction. so, you dont need a dif. ecu, you need a better sensor if the case is what they say it is

even some people that are running boost are only seeing 80% of their maf load so i doubt that an intake is overloading the stock maf.

i dont think i believe the whole "intake doesnt do a thing on a maxima" statement. there is a way to prove it that would end this debate once and for-all. if anyone has a wideband or something that can read maf load, read it w/ the stock intake and then read it w/ a cai. whichever one flows more is the bigger hp gainer. are we really going to argue that more air does not equal more hp?

no dude...the maf tells the computer HOW MUCH air. the more air going into the engine the more fuel the computer will put in to avoid a lean condition. thats why when peopl say that an intake makes a hp loss they are saying that the stock airbox flows better than any cai.

Yes, one of the them is the Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF).

More air in = more air out. The ECU adjusts the amount of fuel used based on the amount of air, all in an attempt to maintain the proper air/fuel ratio. Obviously with a supercharger, you have WAY more air coming in, so you need a larger fuel pump to compensate.

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here, but I am still not understanding how a "better" sensor is the answer. I think all that matters is if the sensor is working or not.

Funny how bgates dynod a 9whp gain with the GAB, but thought it helped more b/c he had TS ECU, and I got the same gain, w/o the ECU. This is on the 3.5L, but the concept iot similar.

They're just trying to sell ECU's, the main theory behind it is that ECU needs to be tuned, more like A/F needs, nothing a S-AFC couldn't do .. what we need them to do is extend rev limtiers.


For N/A tuning, there isnt a "better sensor" since they tell and compensate/adjsut injector duty cylce etc, rather than being better, it's more a matter of its limits, and are hardly ever exceeded unless f/i.

Exactly what I was saying....

I was :sprint: you in my own words :nod:

...and it's not just about airflow with the stock setup. It's about "air charging" the engine's air intake system. The resonator acts as a capacitor to charge the pistons by supplying "on the spot" air needed by the engine. The resonator holds air as opposed to a CAI or Hybrid which holds nothing but the air that is travelling from the filter.

A lot of people used to complain about stomping on the gas and getting a slight delay in acceleration when running with CAI and Hybrids which could be caused by not having a resonated intake on an NA engine.

Which resonator are you talking about deezo? The one underneath the battery or that box-like thing between the TB and the filter?

If you are talking about the resonator on the midpipe, I can understand why DaveB used to recommend keeping the stock midpipe and using an aftermarket CAI tube and cone filter for best driveability.

Between the filter and the MAF.

Oh, THAT one. Interesting indeed! :reading:

you got to remeber nissan engineers spent years planning and designing these things..
but then again our airbox looks no different then ones on other cars, i mean they couldnt have put a regular filter on our car out the factory, lol a grocery getter sounding like a beast..would be like an oxymoron kind of :scratch:

looks and design are two VERY different categories.

I've always wondered my Mustangs benefit so much more from aftermarket intakes, yet maximas don't. I suppose it all reverts to quality Nissan engineering?