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Another starting problem-replaced just about everything

Old 02-04-2006, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SVI30
Stranded wires fail by breaking each individual strand. So the wire is still working but a 12 gauge wire is working more like an 18 gauge wire.

While starting, the ECM uses simultaneous mode instead of sequential mode. This means all 6 injectors are fired instead of one at a time. This is when a impaired wire would not work right. The GND wire is controled individually by the ECM. But the 12V is just one wire in the harness coming from the ignition switch.
Wiring harnesses are made by experts such as Takada and designed to withstand engine movement. If you do gun it a lot, the movement of the engine will be more than normal. For an older car with old engine mounts and old harness, wire breakage may start to show up. Normally, thinner wires have good compliance and will be much better than thick wires. This 12V wire for the injectors should be a thick wire due to the amount of current going thru it in simultaneous mode.

When I designed a moving magnetic head card reader, we had wire breakage due to the head movement. Then we replaced it with a thin wire and fixed the problem.
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Old 02-04-2006, 10:24 AM
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So i seem to be in the same boat here, 95 max that won't start, floods the plugs, has all new sensors and starter. Could the FRP be letting too much gas by and flooding me at start up? My car runs great IF and thats huge IF you can get it started.
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Old 02-04-2006, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SVI30
When I designed a moving magnetic head card reader, we had wire breakage due to the head movement. Then we replaced it with a thin wire and fixed the problem.
Do all mechanics have these reader things? I want look into that.
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Old 02-04-2006, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by brock3j
So i seem to be in the same boat here, 95 max that won't start, floods the plugs, has all new sensors and starter. Could the FRP be letting too much gas by and flooding me at start up? My car runs great IF and thats huge IF you can get it started.
mishmosh changed his and still trouble.
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:07 PM
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Gentlemen I've had this problem probably going on a year now and still can't find a fix I was starting to get excited when you said you changed the starter and FPR... But them I continued to read on and we were back to Square 1.
Here is a link to Somemore suggestions: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=1#post4419466



Problem: My clutch disc broke causing my car to die the only thing it would do is try to turn over.
I have a 98 max and after changing my clutch it gives a hard start especially when itís cold. The original clutch pad also broke and was trapped behind the Flywheel
So Far I have changed the flywheel and installed a fidenza the car still hard starts. I purchased a new stock flywheel for the interrupter ring because I thought the interrupter ring on the original flywheel was bent or messed up. I installed the original stock flywheel to see if that was the problem. Still got the hard starting problem. I purchased a new crank sensor still got the starting problem. I've also changed the starter that did not help at all.

My car is in the shop now we also cheked the fuel system Psi also and it looks good.. Still looking for the cause. I need some help!!!!!!
I also notice if I give short stokes on the ignition sometimes it starts right up.
In my post I said taking my car to the dealer would be my last choice. Well I did take it there Bad mistake Please don't DO WHAT I DID all they did was charged me to Change:
1) Mass Air Flow Sensor
2) Knock Sensor
3) Spark Plugs (NGK)
4) 02 Sensors (ALL)
AND NONE OF THEM ARE RELATED TO THE STARTING PROBLEM...
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:42 AM
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i been having the same issues too...
got new tranny installed in and resealed the inner and outer timing oil leakage that had..new fuel injectors and plugs.
i don't know what to change..fpr? cam pos sensor?
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy97
Do all mechanics have these reader things? I want look into that.
As a quick check for the Harness wire break possibility, I suggest jumper a 12 or 14 gauge wire from the battery (12V) to the injector harness (12V). Be carefull not to connect it to the ECM controled GND wires.
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Old 02-05-2006, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SVI30
As a quick check for the Harness wire break possibility, I suggest jumper a 12 or 14 gauge wire from the battery (12V) to the injector harness (12V). Be carefull not to connect it to the ECM controled GND wires.
Where is the injector harness?
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:38 PM
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So SVI30, all the injector hot leads are connected together to 12V? Where do you suggest a parallel wire be connect to from the (+) battery? I can see the front injectors each coming off the main bundled cable and the rear banks come off smaller cable via connector from the main cable. Should I try to use solderless taps to connect as many of them as possible? The hot lead looks like 16ga wire.
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Old 02-06-2006, 03:00 AM
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Yes, using a solderless insulation displacement connector should work for checking this wire.
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Old 02-06-2006, 05:03 AM
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I cleaned the TB and replaced the starter in my 98 max yesterday. When I took the old starter out I notice a small oil leak coming from the bottom of it. I've started the car twice since I installed the starter, once to make sure the starter worked and then this morning. Everything went fine and no problems. I'm going to buy a new battery though Wednesday because my current battery is almost on it's last legs. I'll post again if the problem comes back. I don't expect to but after being in this thread one thing I've learned is anything is possible.

Oh yeah, the last bolt on the starter was a pain to get off. A guy I know said I should tap the bolt with a hammer because it kind of "un-sticks" the threads. Did so and that worked. He said it was a old machinest trick.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:38 AM
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i'm hopping on this thread to hopefully get some answers. add me to the "mystery transmission starting problem" list

cocoabuttattu02, you mentioned that you got a new wiring harness from the dealer because of a wire broken inside.... did they happen to mention which wire was broken, or what it connected to? or did hey just charge you $2000 for a new harness and send you on your way? i was thinking that it might be a broken wire internally as well, because the wiring harnesses go through a lot of movement while trying to disconnect everything.
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:49 AM
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I too have the mystery starting problem. I first noticed it immediately after I had the tranny rebuilt last year. Now car is sitting because when real cold the battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the sucker over fast enough it seems. However, a tranny swap seems to be a common "coincidence" throughout this thread. If it is related to a tranny swap, what could it possibly be?
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy97
Where is the injector harness?
It comes from the firewall on the passenger side to the timing chain cover area. then follow each valve cover towards the tranny.
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Old 02-06-2006, 03:10 PM
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I may have to take this in soon, I can't stand it anymore. I'm not good with electrical and it's cold as hell outside.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:20 PM
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have you tried replaced the clutch/inhibitor switch. That cured my problem.
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Old 02-07-2006, 11:51 AM
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Good suggestion Marco. I previously had taken out the switch and tested it for functionality--it activated every time, but this is something to check when you think there's an electrical component to starting issues on 5MT's.

UPDATE:
I have been having perfect starts since Saturday--maybe 15 in a row! I have to believe (or at least am hoping) that this is not some coincidence, as up until the FPR/starter change, I was getting daily episodes of stutter/pauses during starts with the occasional backfiring thrown in. I am wondering if some of my plugs were a little fouled from all the gas flooding before, just needed some time to burn off that crap which resulted in the two stutter starts I had Saturday, the day after the swaps. I also have not heard ANY backfiring at all since the FPR/starter went in. I am still keeping my fingers crossed, but I think clearly there has been an improvement. On the downside, I hear some zipping noise from the starter after it has started--looks like I need to pull it to regrease, but it can probably wait until spring.

Crazy, did you end up installing your FPR or did you hold off because I initially thought it didn't solve things?
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:51 PM
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mishmosh - how was the car running when it would finally start before you replaced the FPR and starter? did it stumble a little bit at idle before it would act normally?
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by marco polo
have you tried replaced the clutch/inhibitor switch. That cured my problem.


How can I check the clutch/inhibitor I've never heard of it were is it located?
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vettefever5
mishmosh - how was the car running when it would finally start before you replaced the FPR and starter? did it stumble a little bit at idle before it would act normally?
The car would run totally fine once started. It was only during the cranking that there were stutters/pauses/backfires and sometimes needing to be cranked for 8-10 seconds. It would always fire up after one or two turns of the key. I also noticed that after I just got the car started, if I turned the car off and immediately tried to start it, it would be even harder to start most of the time. Once the car fired up, I didn't notice any problems with idling or the car's performance. Here is what I think: with the car not running and with it running are two opposite extremes for the FPR (one without and one with vacuum) so it is possible for you to have no drivability issues, or at least that it may not be readily apparent, with a bad FPR. Over the last year and a half, the hard starting went from happening maybe 10% of the time to something like 50-60% of the time ie. more often than not. Over the years, this car (my first btw) has been a great source of pride but with the prolonged cranking with freaking stutters and an occasional backfire, it has embarrassed me in public on a number of occasions.

At this point, I am NOT thinking the 11 tooth is the difference. A properly functioning 10 tooth (or even 8 tooth) starter should start the car up just fine. This 11 tooth is my 4 th starter that I've tried. When the car was set not to fireup, the starter always seemed to crank strongly and continuously.

Originally Posted by aphillips4u
How can I check the clutch/inhibitor I've never heard of it were is it located?
It is the switch at the bottom of the clutch pedal rest that allows you to start the car only with the clutch pedal floored. Some have reported it as spotty, resulting in an interrupted start signal.
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Old 02-07-2006, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mishmosh
The car would run totally fine once started. It was only during the cranking that there were stutters/pauses/backfires and sometimes needing to be cranked for 8-10 seconds. It would always fire up after one or two turns of the key. I also noticed that after I just got the car started, if I turned the car off and immediately tried to start it, it would be even harder to start most of the time. Once the car fired up, I didn't notice any problems with idling or the car's performance. Here is what I think: with the car not running and with it running are two opposite extremes for the FPR (one without and one with vacuum) so it is possible for you to have no drivability issues, or at least that it may not be readily apparent, with a bad FPR. Over the last year and a half, the hard starting went from happening maybe 10% of the time to something like 50-60% of the time ie. more often than not. Over the years, this car (my first btw) has been a great source of pride but with the prolonged cranking with freaking stutters and an occasional backfire, it has embarrassed me in public on a number of occasions.

At this point, I am NOT thinking the 11 tooth is the difference. A properly functioning 10 tooth (or even 8 tooth) starter should start the car up just fine. This 11 tooth is my 4 th starter that I've tried. When the car was set not to fireup, the starter always seemed to crank strongly and continuously.



It is the switch at the bottom of the clutch pedal rest that allows you to start the car only with the clutch pedal floored. Some have reported it as spotty, resulting in an interrupted start signal.

I agree I don't think it's a starter issue because I installed a new starter and the problem was still there to me the old starter was more powerful but I did the starter swap so I lost the old one.
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Old 02-07-2006, 07:24 PM
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The new FPR came today so I'll try and put it in as soon as possible.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:02 PM
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Crazy: not sure if you have an aftermarket or stock intake, but the "box" part of the intake after the TB was in the way and also part of the TB was in the way. I had to remove the intake partially and moved the TB to the side (coolant lines intact) to get good leverage with a phillips screwdriver to break free the FPR screws. Don't strip them whatever you do. Liberal penetrating lube always helps. Good luck!
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:05 PM
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The clucth inhibitor relay is behind the right side headlamp. I have an AUTOMATIC tranny and I replaced it because lately everytime I would start my car I would need to give JUST A BIT of gas. My max would want to die out if I didn't give it some juice. I replaced the starter with a new one and it didn't solve the problem. But hey with 200k on the clock it was about time. BUT I replaced the clucth/inhibit and it solved my problem I paid $20.00 at the dealer. My max starts right up with NO hesitation.hope this helps.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by marco polo
The clucth inhibitor relay is behind the right side headlamp. I have an AUTOMATIC tranny and I replaced it because lately everytime I would start my car I would need to give JUST A BIT of gas. My max would want to die out if I didn't give it some juice. I replaced the starter with a new one and it didn't solve the problem. But hey with 200k on the clock it was about time. BUT I replaced the clucth/inhibit and it solved my problem I paid $20.00 at the dealer. My max starts right up with NO hesitation.hope this helps.
This is next on the list!

Mishmosh, the TB definitly is in the way, I just hope the screws are not much of a pain. I'm gonna start on this right now.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:21 AM
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Just so you know a new starter has fixed my problem. It's going on day 4 now with not a single problem. If the problem comes back again I'll definately be looking for this thread!

Good luck to you guys!

Next project: replacing door hinges on 93 max.
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Juicey
Just so you know a new starter has fixed my problem. It's going on day 4 now with not a single problem. If the problem comes back again I'll definately be looking for this thread!
Congrats!

Marco: didn't realize you had an auto. I changed out the clutch/inh relay as well but no love... I think if you unplug one of the crank or cam sensors and it cranks continuously every time, then an electrical start signal (ign switch, clutch/inh switch or relay) is not the problem--easy test.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:06 AM
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I changed the FPR and no luck. Still the same.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:28 AM
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i have the exact same problem, and this all happened after my 5spd swap.
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:15 PM
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Now I just changed the clutch/inhibiter relay and it did pause once out of about ten starts so well see if that will lead me to the promise land. It did hesitate once so I am not too exited about the other 9 good starts.

Anyone know where a starter relay is? Haynes sucks.

Edit: there are 3 blue relay fuse looking things next to the fuses inside the passenger compartment. Anyone know wtf those are?
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Old 02-08-2006, 03:26 PM
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I am going to drain the tranny and investigate the Park/Nuetral position switch. This is at the bottom of the tranny and has a wire running to it that is very visible. This gets tampered with during trans work. It's a long shot but Haynes manual says that if the starter relay is not functioning correctly this along with the clutch interlock switch can be malfunctioning.
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:05 PM
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Usually, for just a clutch job, they leave it intact (unless they pulled it to drain the tranny).
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
sounds like all ur fuel pressure is bleeding of and takes awhile to start....does this occur all the time or only when the car sits for a while
i have an automatic and its been doing the same thing for a while too. for me it only seems to happen every morning, so yea, after it sits for a while.


i did plugs, fuel filter, pcv valve(was toasted, actually helped a bit...now my car doesnt hesitate as much), and hopefuly tomorow in class ill beable to run through some injector cleaner. and i just had tranny rebuilt like 3 weeks ago.
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:17 PM
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"crank sputter stop crank crank crank crank"

damn it damn it damn it. Just rebuilt my tranny and did a clutch job. damn it. wtf. Add me to the list. Very first start after sitting for 1-month was horrible. I'm heated, add me to the list. You guys replaced so many parts, at least I can benefit from that by ruling somet things out in advance.

OK, I know a decent amount about cars and some diagnosing, and I can tell SVI30 is a good tech. When I get a chance on friday, I am first going to jumper the FI harness. I also want to bolt a flexible ground strap from the bell-housing to motor and maybe even right to the body, because I heard of someone elses having IDENTICAL problems and it was caused by a poor ground between bellhousing/motor. BUT, for me, this problem crept up right after I did my intake just a little, It did not do the "crank sputter STOP crank crank crank crank" (Which I think is BACKFIRING, DUH, that's why, no cps=no spark=no backfire) it would only fail to start until you cranked it for awhile. so, svi30's explantation could make since because both times the battery got disconnected and the wiring harness was twisted and wiggled and moved around in one way or another.

**** Note, my fuel pump seems a little noiser than in any of my feinds or my previous 4/th gens, and I have a fuel pump laying around w/60k So I might just do that also on friday even though I don't think it is my cause, heck I could even leave half a tank in it instead of going to the gym.

This problem blows, we need to find a solution very quickly, it stinks that so many are having this and it is a tricky one to figure out, it's also intemitten and only during starting that which adds to the complexity, so we should all try svi30's thing when we can.
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cocoabuttattu02
I just got off the phone with Nissan and they told me that 97-98 model Maximas .........
humm, my car is a '96 I30
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:22 AM
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Update- these are all the items that have been replaced currently:

-spark plugs
-ECT sensor (engine coolant sensor)
-crank sensor
-crank ref sensor
-camshaft sensor
-ignition switch
-switched batteries
-4 of the 6 coils are fairly new
-fuel filter within 10K
-Fuel Pressure Regulator FPR
-Clutch Inhibiter relay(behind driverside headlight)
-Mishmosh has changed battery cables without luck.
-4 different starters, now I have an 11 tooth starter from an 01 pt#233002Y900R


Next up on the list is to possible check and replace the Park/Nuetral position switch at the bottom of the tranny.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:51 AM
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don't replace the reverse/nuetral switch. I just rebuilt my tranny and I put a new one in there because I broke the old one!!

Something else is going on for me, I've been hearing a weird hissing sound from my tail pipe under heavy load. My clutch was broken in today, so I was spanking on my car today from a red light and saw in my rear-veiw what looked like two little puffs of fuel vapors. Then on the way home on the highway my muffler exploded! I mean, EXPLODED! Go here if you want to see pics I beleive this was caused by fuel vapors building up inside the muffler.

Did you guys install aluminum flywheels? What about when you pulled the y-pipe, did the ground strap that connects to the catback break off from corrosion? I assumed this strap was for the downstream o2 and wouldn't cause any problems.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:26 PM
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I've never heard backfiring while driving...only when starting. Maybe check to make sure you don't get a code for the knock sensor and if you haven't replaced O2 sensors, you may need to.

My exhaust ground strap was destoyed years ago...never had a problem with it. Am running stock flywheel.

Although my starting is much better (11 tooth starter?) and I no longer hear any backfiring (fpr?), I still have the occasional pausing. It's much more livable now. I am going to look into the injector (+) bolstering that SVI30 mentioned next. Starting is fuel, spark, cranking... so which is this dammit!?!?
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by KRRZ350
don't replace the reverse/nuetral switch. I just rebuilt my tranny and I put a new one in there because I broke the old one!!

Something else is going on for me, I've been hearing a weird hissing sound from my tail pipe under heavy load. My clutch was broken in today, so I was spanking on my car today from a red light and saw in my rear-veiw what looked like two little puffs of fuel vapors. Then on the way home on the highway my muffler exploded! I mean, EXPLODED! Go here if you want to see pics I beleive this was caused by fuel vapors building up inside the muffler.

Did you guys install aluminum flywheels? What about when you pulled the y-pipe, did the ground strap that connects to the catback break off from corrosion? I assumed this strap was for the downstream o2 and wouldn't cause any problems.

I had a blown muffler on a Buick Electra just like what happened to you. It was slightly blow out, not as bad as yours and the guy in my back seat thought he was going to die! Anyway, yes it's from fuel vapors. I can't remember though what fixed it....it's been so long ago!
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:43 AM
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I'm not backfiring while driving, only when starting, and it's not a loud intake backfire, it's just a little backfire, that's what causes our starters to stop turning for a second I beleive. I think it's possible that the fuel was building up during starting, but that doesn't make sense with the hissing and why it got worse right before it exploded. All of my o2's are new, but I'm confused why I'm not getting any o2 codes from running rich, UNLESS it is from the starting problem, it has to be. Today I'm buying a grounding kit, I'm going to ground the bellhousing to the motor, bellhousing to the body, and one of the starter bolts to the motor and to the body.
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