jayboydog

I've got water in the oil. car started and ran four miles and stalled. was able to restart but sometimes odd sound coming as engine cranks. a few weeks ago I heard screeching (for a couple of minutes) which seemed to come from the driver's side of engine where the belts are.

someone posted that when their water pump seals went bad, they were getting water in the oil. what is the situation with water pump and oil mixing? 83,000 miles on this '95 Maxima. mechanic is saying I need to swap the engine for a different one. I did not see the engine temp getting hotter than normal. temp gage reads cold at start. was about 3 liters low on water a few weeks ago. I don't drive very much--maybe 30 miles per week. what do you guess is the problem with my water getting into oil?

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

It could be your water pump. It could also be a blown head gasket. This kind of problem requires that someone look at the engine to locate the exact cause of the leak. Why didn't you ask your mechanic?

What country are you in. This does not change any answers, I am curious.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

Test it for a blown head gasket.

jayboydog

I am in California. I don't drive too much. Stay home each day. I don't understand how something wrong with water pump could enable water to mix with the oil. I expect the water pump only circulates water within the water path.

I mention that I didn't notice the engine getting above normal temp as I don't know what could've caused a head gasket to go bad. but given the car did stall, I suspect water is getting into one or more cylinder(s). How much work is involved in changing one of the head gaskets? I'm getting estimates of like $1200. other mechanics feel it isn't worth the risk of damage having occurred at the crank shaft bearings so they feel the engine should be swapped for a used or rebuilt engine.

Again, what is the idea that water could enter the oil path by a faulty water pump?

Climaxx

iTrader: (4)

Our water pumps are chain driven. Which means they're internal. They sit in between the inner timing cover and the block. On the side the chain is on, there is oil. On the other side is coolant. There are two rubber o rings on the water pump to prevent them from mixing. However, because they're rubber, they do deteriate over time and do need to be replaced.

It sounds like the coolant has spun a bearing. I would rather just throw another engine in. If you do in fact have a spun bearing, you get the head gasket replaced, guess what, you're out $1200+ and still have a problem/bad engine.

Good luck

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

The VQ doesn't blow a head gasket for no reason.

Is it water just moisture or is it really antifreeze in the oil? What are you seeing in the oil, on the dipstick and on the back of the oil fill cap?

An engine that doesn't warm up completely when driven is subject to moisture in the crank case. If that condition happens constantly, you can get enough moisture in the crank cae to make the oil milky. I've seen it happen on motorcycle engines.

Although 3 liters low on coolant is alarming and might point to a water pump issue. When was the last time you checked the coolant level prior to this? A water pump replacement is cheap, but time consuming if your a DIY'er. It could very well be your problem.

Again, the VQ doesn't blow a head gasket for no reason, these motors are almost bullet proof. I think your mechanic is not diagnosing the problem correctly.

jayboydog

there's a lot of water in the oil. the oil dipstick has milky brown substance far above the spot for measuring oil level. when you say spun a bearing, I assume you are meaning a crankshaft bearing or connecting rod bearing-- so yeah, replacing a water pump and/or fixing a head gasket doesn't fix a spun bearing. i'm having trouble thinking this through... the body is in poor cosmetic shape, one back window isn't moving up/down (although I hear the window motor sound). My issue is placing a dollar amount that I am will to spend on a replacement engine.

Max_Gator

You need to work on the diagnosis a little more.

Start with the easiest thing first. Drain oil, refill. Refill coolant. Bleed the cooling system by leaving the cap off the radiator, making sure it is full, turning on the engine, running it to operating temp, adding more coolant to top off, turn off and let cool down. You may have to do that a couple of times.

During this process you hope to see the wp leaking. If it is the water pump, you will see coolant leaking under the a/c from the wp weep hole.

I would also check the dipstick after each cooldown.

If you don't see water leaking from wp and you are getting water in the oil, it is time to go rent a leakdown kit or have someone do a leakdown test. This is the test to determine if you have a blown head gasket. (You could also do the leakdown test first before doing anything with oil and water).

After doing these two things, you should have a better idea of what caused the problem/ what the problem is. At that point, you may be better able to figure out whether you have a bearing issue.

I am skeptical of any mechanic who throws out "you need a new engine" without telling you why. Because when they tell you why you can figure out if they are fos.

jayboydog

the general discussion with the mechanic was this: with a head gasket problem, merely getting the water into the oil had placed the bearings at risk of further problems. so rather than merely fix the head gasket for (I don't know how much yet), the guy says install a used engine for 1800. I will call one of the shops which advertises they'll do a complete rebuild over a three week time frame and see how much they want. my concern would also be if I have damaged the actual surfaces of the crankshaft where the connecting rods/bearings attach. given the car was stalling and not always starting right away, I assume there is water getting into the cylinder(s). I don't see smoke. and I don't see evidence of water leaking from the water pump area. does anyone have an approximate cost to repair one head gasket?

asand1

iTrader: (1)

You should be able to get a good used rngine installed for $2k.

svezarov

I don't expect it to be the water pump, since as a poster above noted, when the seal goes, it will drip just under the right side of the engine from the escape hole in the pump. There is no pressure for the coolant to penetrate the other (oil) seal and go into the oil section of the engine. This is what happened with mine.
To me it looks more like a head or another gasket has gone. Wasn't there cooling into the intake manifold? Could be going in from there.
In any case if my Infiniti 96 goes this way, I will not shed the $2k. Life is bigger than a 20 year old car.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

But this is only one failure mode. The "seals" to which you refer are really o-rings that seal the pump body to the engine block. The shaft seals and bearing can also go bad, causing cross contamination.

Coolant also is pressurized to ~14 PSI and will spray into the timing case, which is at 0 PSI.

I would run a block test and leak down test for the head gasket before proceeding.

svezarov

Yes you are right that they are O rings - one red and one black from what I remember. There is no pressure in the section between the 2 seals, so once the coolant penetrates the water seal, it goes in the middle section where the pressure is 0 and out it goes from the weeping hole.
I am just trying to remove the pump from the culprit list here.

jayboydog

svezarov--"Wasn't there cooling into the intake manifold? Could be going in from there.
In any case if my Infiniti 96 goes this way, I will not shed the $2k. Life is bigger than a 20 year old car."

I don't understand why coolant would be getting into the intake manifold. the intake manifold only has fresh air entering the engine.

when you say you would not shed, do you mean you would not spend $2k on your '96 Infinity?

svezarov

If my transmission or engine break which usually costs $1500+, I will not keep the car - this would be the end of it.
With regards of the intake manifold, I haven't removed mine yet, but there should be 2 coolant hoses that come out of the back on the intake manifold. Could be mistaken though. I can't check right now - I am at work.

jayboydog

svezarov-- you're correct there are those hoses at the back of the intake manifold. I forgot about them. I don't know how much water is in the oil, as it was the tow driver who pulled the dipstick and I just noticed from several feet away the light brown color going up the dipstick. I should've been more on the ball and been interested in seeing where the oil level is on the stick with a regular measure by wiping the dipstick and inserting it. I am thinking I will try some alumiseal in the coolant and see if that stops the water from getting into the oil and patches the head gasket. the shop where the car is now doesn't want to just repair the head gaskets (both). they feel there's already damage to the crankshaft bearings.

jayboydog

i picked the car up from mechanic. car started after adding water. stopped to get some alumiseal which i put into the radiator hoping to seal where the water was leaking. drove one mile. car stalled. could not get it started again. water/oil mix is dripping under the front head of engine. i'm hopeful just replacing the front headgasket will cure my problem.

svezarov

you will probably be charged between $700 - $1000 for the head gasket change. There is a chance that the engine is not damaged since it is a very strong one, but if it is, you will be at a loss. It is still beyond me how this engine with such a low milage would blow a head gasket, since this gasket is actually made out of metal, but it is what it is.
It will be interesting to see which way you will go and what will the final result be. You know what I would do.

gruesome

Little off topic, but a friend has a Chevy sierra dump truck, thinks he blew the head gasket at 27 k this morning.

jfactor

I fully agree with Gator on this. I'm not a mechanic by trade but I've done my fair share of wrench time under the hood on many vehicles for over a decade. I'd get a second opinion and do some online research, which you were clearly smart enough to ask here before throwing down the cash. I have an extreme distrust for mechanics so there are only 2 shops that I trust. One because the guy's a no bs straight shooter that knows his stuff and another that I can take my car to and have it fixed, reliably, in a jiffy when I know what I need to have replaced and I have the parts. Weigh your options. Ask your mechanic why "you need a new engine" and post the answer you get, I'd really like to see his reason.

Max_Gator

Is there a reason you don't want to do a leakdown test?

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

Your mechanic is raping you. Only 83k miles!?!? Treat your engine better please. It should last at least 2,3,4,500,000 miles before you begin to think about posting something like this.

Max_Gator

Well that was helpful.

How do you know the mechanic is raping him if you don't know what's wrong with the car?

JvG

asand1 recommended going a block test. The purpose is to check for a blown head gasket. I ran this test on my sons 1990 Toyota Cressida. (engine also in Supra). The test confirmed blown head gasket. I bought the tester form NAPA for about 50 bucks.

It will confirm BHG if you have one, or it will confirm you do not have one as well. You can decide what to do after the test is done.