yellow_cake

I have a 95 Maxima (auto). The car died while my brother was driving it in the city. Since then it has not been able to start. It cranks but does not start.

I've kept the car maintained reasonably well. Fluids, spark plug, fuel filter, etc...

Here's what I've checked so far:

1. The engine is getting spark.
2. The engine is getting fuel -- I first tried the starter fluid into the throttle body and no effect. I had the fuel pressure tested, it was a bit low so we put in a new fuel pump and still no difference. I pulled out a spark plug, it was wet with fuel.
3. Knowing a bit about these cars, I have replaced the cam sensor, and both crank sensors with used OEM ones from a running vehicle, still no difference.
4. Tried running a jumper cable from the negative batt. terminal to the engine in case it was a ground issue.
5. Tried disconnecting the MAF.
6. Checked for codes using a scanner, NO trouble codes

I am wondering if the timing chain skipped and the engine is out of timing
Can an experienced member judge from the sound of cranking if the timing is off?


Anyone have any recommendations before I junk the car?

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

The cranking sounds normal to me. I don't really know what it might be, though. Unplug the wires from the MAF and see if the car starts.

yellow_cake

Oh yeah, forgot to mention I tried disconnecting the MAF too, still no start. Also there are no trouble codes.

JvG

Similar thing happened to a new member recently.
One of our experienced members, CS-AR , thought it could be a bad fuel injector. One that is stuck open.

This would flood one cyl with gas, perhaps more than one. It would also cause low fuel pressure on the others. I would remove all the plugs. See which ones are wet. Keep track.of which cylender they come from. You might want to post a photo of the plugs. This can tell us how the car has been running.

You might callan auto parts store to see if they rent a fuel pressure tester.

The fuel pump creates fuel pressure. The fuel pressure regulator maintains the pressure. Or not, should it be defective. A leaking seal on a fuel injector could cause enough fuel pressure drop to affect the other cylenders.

Is your check engine light on by chance? If so, get a code reader, then tell us what the code is.

CS_AR

+1

Welcome back yellow cake. I remember your well organized posts.

That starting video sounds familiar. I've been there and experienced that when I had two leaking injector o-rings. Your engine sounds healthy otherwise. We've seen a lot of flooding issues from leaking injector o-rings with cracked pintle caps over the past three years.

Pulling the plugs as JVG suggested is the way to find the cylinder where you may be getting too much fuel. That will point you to the cylinder with a leaking injector o-ring.

Do you smell a lot of unburned fuel coming from the exhaust pipe?

One "temporary work around" for starting a flooded engine is to hold the accelerator "all the way to the floor" and then let the starter run for a few seconds to clear out the excess fuel from the cylinders. If it starts with the accelerator in the WOT position, it will confirm a flooding condition.

Rit

iTrader: (3)

Good suggestion, but NOT for minutes, for seconds only. Doing this for minutes will likely burn out the starter motor, and run the battery dead.

CS_AR

Good catch. Changed it to seconds.. It seemed like an eternity at the time I had to do it..

yellow_cake

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. Ah yes, I do recall reading the thread a while back regarding the broken/cracked fuel injector pintle caps. I can't seem to find that exact thread with all the info regarding diagnostics, replacement, etc...

CS_AR I tried starting in the WOT position, it sounded a little different towards the end of the cranking cycle (about 5-6 sec), however it did not start. I tried two cycles.

I did smell a bit of fuel a couple days ago when I tried starting it. Today I have a cold so I haven't been able to smell anything...

Right after I took out the spark plugs, they all appeared to be wet with fuel. Not sure if any were significantly more wet than others (maybe hard to detect). I did notice one (#5 IIRC) was a little drier that the rest.

Here are the pics, though some of the fuel had dried up by the time I took the photos.
I took them with a phone camera but let me know if you need better pics, I'll use a proper camera.

CS_AR

I think the pictures are fine. Cylinders 1, 2, and 4 look like they may be running on the rich side.

I would be tempted to pull the injectors from the left bank (closest to the radiator) in install new o-rings and pentile caps just to see what happens. That would leave you with only one rich cylinder on the right bank under the intake manifold.

I run the NGK copper v-power spark plugs that cost roughly $2.50 each. I know they are a low cost plug that only lasts 25,000 miles. But I would actually pay more for them over platinum or iridiums due to the amount of spark they produce compared to other plugs.

Can you tell which cylinders in the head picture below were running rich from leaking injector o-rings?

allmazda

Why not take a plug and coil when removed and check for spark? If you have spark then remove top line of fuel filter and turn key on to make sure you have fuel. Take the filter and bend the lower hose so the fuel will go into an empty drink bottle.

Once fuel and spark are confirmed then go from there.

93SCMax

iTrader: (3)

Double check your spark plug gaps, they should be 0.044". Your tips look a little worn so it appears the gap may be wider than spec. I wouldn't expect this to be your solution to the no start, but the right gap will help with proper ignition.

yellow_cake

Okay so I decided to check the fuel pressure for myself. I took a video of test so you could see what the gauge reads at different steps...
Does this look pretty normal? Also since the gauge was T'd in just after the fuel filter, I'm not sure if this test verifies the FPR (fuel pressure regulator)...


Also inspected the fuel injectors on the front bank. The all "looked" in good shape to me. I did not notice any cracked pintle caps but it's hard to tell if the o-rings have shrunk. They all went in tightly...



I'd like to isolate the fuel injectors but would rather not wait a couple weeks for rebuilt injectors to come in... Now if I can pinpoint the injectors with certainty, I will order them. Right now I'm tempted to replace the entire fuel rail with a junk yard one, that should cover the FPR too...

What are your guys' thoughts? PS, thanks for the input so far!

yellow_cake

If and when I do get this sorted, I plan on replacing the plugs with coppers (I've already got a new set sitting around). For now I leave them be as they are within their rated mileage and the engine was running smoothly before it died that day.

I'll guess the 2 left on the top cylinder, and the middle one on the bottom (maybe the left-most too?)

JvG

Looks like the fuel pressure is dropping rather rapidly. So I would suspect the fuel pressure regulator.

There is a vaccuum hose which connects to the fpr. It is not suppossed to have gasoline inside it. But it would if the diaphagm in the fpr has a leak.
Remove the vaccuum hose . You might find gasoline there, or a gas smell.

Disclosure..... this information is based on what I have read in this forum. I have not experienced this issue on my car.

CS_AR

I would not replace a fuel rail with one from a junkyard. That might be part of the reason the car wound up in the junkyard. About 3 years ago, I moved a rail with injectors from an engine that I thought had good injectors to a different engine that I was swapping in. I just moved the problem to the new engine. It cost a bundle of money in misdiagnosis charges to figure out the issue.

If you can't wait for an injector refurbishment kit or injectors, just lubricate your injectors and reinstall them. If you need a new FPR, I've replaced three on my 4th gens with the BWD Intermotor brand (from Rock Auto) as preventative maintenance.

JvG

I'm guessing a bit more about your issue....

If the diaphagm in the fpr has ruptured, gasoline would enter the vaccuim hose, then the engine.
This would create a flooding situation, which would wet one or more plugs. This would cause them to miss-fire, or not fire at all.

You cranked for a while, then stopped just as the sound started to change. You dis that to keep from overheating the starter.

You might consider cranking longer than before. Like one minuite even. This would dry the plugs, and the car would start. But if you stop cranking, and crank again in a little while, fuel through the vaccuum line would soak them all over again.

Ive dealt with this rather familiar scenario with another members car. It would always start, after long cranking. Turned out to be the fpr.

By the way, those injectors look good.

Question : did you remember to lubricate the o rings on the injectors before you re-installed them?

If not, they tend to stretch, rip and leak.
That would create a new problem.

yellow_cake

Haha, well I Just got back from the junkyard with a fuel rail. I think I'll take your advice CS_AR about not swapping the entire fuel rail.
I actually tried to look for a totaled 4th gen, that way I'd have some surety that the car was running... However none of the 3 were wrecked so they all probably died before ending up at the wreckers...

I did oil the o-rings before re-installing the injectors. JvG I will try looking into the FPR as it's probably the easiest thing right now.

If the FPR doesn't resolve the issue, I might pull the rear injectors and inspect them... at least now I've got 6 spare injectors I could try to find the ones in best condition.

CS_AR

Since you have an extra set, you might want to get a kit and refurbish six at some point in the future. Here's a link to the thread on this topic.

As a matter of fact, I just ordered the CS Performance kit for an 8 cylinder (to have 2 extra) this week. Although it runs good, I will be refurbishing the injectors on the 97 model soon.

As for FPRs, I've had good luck with the BWD Intermotor brand that I purchased at RockAuto. Others members have used Intermotor FPRs as well.

Note the reference to a JIS driver in this thread. The screws that hold the FRP to the rail look like a Phillips. However, they are different.

https://maxima.org/forums/4th-genera...uild-kits.html

jholley

iTrader: (13)

Removing those soft brass phillips headed FPR bolts isn't easy. After soaking them with PB blaster I used this setup that Turbobink provided

Replace those brass bolts with SS allen headed bolts size M5 x 0.8mm x 16mm

KP11520

GREAT idea! Thanks for that!

JvG

Those plugs look blackish, and tell me that the engine.has been running rich on fuel for a while.

Normal plugs in a healthy, happy engine ate usually greyish to tannish.

So this tells me that you have been having an over fueling problem. So you are on the right track.

Which should be good news.

89newporker

My suggestion would have been to run a compression check considering how oily the plugs look... kinda tough to do when the engine is apart... You can perform a leak down test assuming the bottom end is not torn apart and set a measured amount mineral oil into each cylinder and time how long it take the oil to drain past the rings

adeste

You ever figure out what the problem was?

yellow_cake

No, unfortunately not.
I ran out of time and options and the car was eventually sent to the junk yard after roughly 430,000 km of service.