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This is a picture of a spreadsheet I keep re: the 98 i30 - i've also attached the .xls. My wife & I purchased this car from the original owners (my parents). It presently has 122k miles on it and just passed inspection. It needs CV axles (click click click) most likely due to boot deterioration from excessive leaking at valve covers (but valve covers just recently done). There are some minor cosmetic issues (door dings, small scratch, etc) but none of that has ever bothered anybody before. No rust of any kind. I've replaced the fog lamps and other little stuff like that. Runs GR-EAT (after recent fuel injector rebuild) - except no A/C (compressor took a dump last month).
The question de jour is: should we (pay $1600 to have somebody else) fix the air conditioner in this car? The car is basically unusable in Houston, TX without A/C. As you already know if you're reading this, the Blue Book value of this car is already somewhere around "nothing" ($1,723 Private Party Value in "Good" condition) - but that's not with a broken A/C (car is worth "zero" at this time).
But if the A/C were repaired - we would probably keep driving it "forever". My wife "doesn't want to keep pouring money into this car" and I can sympathize with that for sure. But if not that, then replace it with...what? A new car, or a neused car (either one of which would require Comp/Collision coverage)?
When the Infiniti breaks (and it does do that fairly frequently, as borne out below) I usually surrender my 2003 Silverado to my wife, and I drive a 96 Civic DX with 240k miles that my wife purchased before we were married. Then I fix the Infiniti and give it back to her, and we put the Honda away until next time.
The thing this time (I think - its complicated) is that I can't / won't fix the A/C myself. I know that only crazy maxima people are reading this post on this forum (so not an un-biased crowd) but I'm still asking for help rationalizing a decision about whether to keep this car (fix it) - or Not.
I am impressed with your record keeping that allows you to know what you are talking about. What I am not impressed with is how much work you have has to do to the car. That is more work than I did on my 97 and 2000 Maximas combined. My wife decided she wanted a new car so we sold the 97 at around 168K miles. My 200 was totalled at around 115K miles.
I see that you use dealers for some of the repairs and that does jack up the maintenance expenses. As far as either keeping the car or dumping it, that is your call based mostly on your wallet. To that end, I see the normal maintenance items of tires, alternator, starter, axles. Some of the items replaced by the dealer may not have needed to be replaced, dealers always "recommend" that you replace additional items whenever you bring a car in to them. But you replaced items that don't usually fail and you have to wonder what is going on.
It seems like you probably have dealt with most of the major items, so the a/c repair is the last major item. At $1600, it is evidently major, major repairs if an indy shop is doing it. If the dealer is doing it, it is a small repair. But you would have a car that should then be trouble free.
Buying another car will cost money up front, cost more to insure but should be relatively maintenance free. I would take the gamble and fix the Infiniti. As long as the engine is in good shape, the car should be into its second life.
I see that you use dealers for some of the repairs and that does jack up the maintenance expenses
I have never used a Nissan or Infiniti dealer for labor repairs. I should have included an abbreviation map:
SS T&A - a Goodyear shop, since closed (very sad)
RMS - a local independent shop that I will never use again
Grubbs - Infiniti dealer in DFW area, Internet parts only
Baker Nissan - local dealer, parts only
SW Infiniti - local dealer, starter only because we had to have it that day
RWS - me
Montrose T&A - a Michelin franchise
Infiniti of Charlotte - Internet orders, no longer in business online
Originally Posted by DennisMik
Some of the items replaced by the dealer may not have needed to be replaced, dealers always "recommend" that you replace additional items whenever you bring a car in to them. But you replaced items that don't usually fail and you have to wonder what is going on.
What parts do you see that "don't usually fail"?
Originally Posted by DennisMik
It seems like you probably have dealt with most of the major items, so the a/c repair is the last major item. At $1600, it is evidently major, major repairs if an indy shop is doing it. If the dealer is doing it, it is a small repair. But you would have a car that should then be trouble free.
The quote was from Montrose TA (the Michelin affiliated shop) for compressor, condenser, dryer, and flush/service.
I'd keep the Max until the engine or transmission gives out.
Secondly, find another AC repair shop. I bet it can be done for half of what you were quoted ($800). Summer is almost over, so if you can wait til mid October when AC demand is lower, I bet you'll get a much, much better price on the work.
I'd keep the Max until the engine or transmission gives out.
Secondly, find another AC repair shop. I bet it can be done for half of what you were quoted ($800). Summer is almost over, so if you can wait til mid October when AC demand is lower, I bet you'll get a much, much better price on the work.
Do you think its important to replace the Calsonic compressor (that lasted 20 years) with another Calsonic (still available, not cheap)? "Why would I _not_?", or "How can I afford _not_ to?"
Wouldn't _you_ opt to replace the flexible lines off the compressor at this time - but not with sh*t parts, right? All that drives the parts up to close to $800 by themselves.
it's entirely normal for an old car to need work. Which costs money. Yet once all defferred maintaince has been done, your car should last at least 100k miles, perhaps 200k miles. How many years of driving does that mean to you?
Next figure how much you like the car if the air conditioning worked properly.
let's say that you kept the car for 5 more years.
then divide total cost by 5. That's your yearly cost. Then divide by 12. That's monthly cost. I bet that the monthly cost wI'll seem like a bargain. Then try to calculate 10 years.
The only time the match does not add up is if you want to keep the car for a year or two.
In the interests of full disclosure I should also add that, aside from the aforementioned "weak AC compressor with compromised AC components" as well as "clicking CV axles" that:
1. the Fresh Air Door Motor is inoperative (100% fresh air all the time) - not a huge deal, just haven't fixed it yet
2. Although the top side is now spic and MF span and leaking Nothing ("NOTHING!") post-fuel injector overhaul/cleaning, it still leaks oil from the bottom end. Previous owner had the lower pan gasket replaced (although it's leaking again), but the upper oil pan has never been off the car (leaks from there too). Timing cover has similarly never been off the car, and neither has the rear main seal. It used to leak a LOT of oil (before I replaced the VC gaskets) - now it "only" leaks "some".
Replacing the CV axles before repairing the UOP leaks would be "in-efficient" (leaking oil would again prematurely corrode the joint boots) but it would be "nice" all the same if there wasn't the constant reminder whenever a corner is taken...
it doesn't leak any power steering fluid (as I've replaced every rubber part, including the rack seals), nor transmission fluid.
Last edited by reallywildstuff; 08-29-2018 at 08:20 PM.
1) No car payments - no interest paid.
2) No depreciation - the cars have already bottomed out..
3) Low insurance cost for young drivers - liability only policy (see item #1 and #2)
After figuring the money "not spent" compared to a newer car, owning a 4th gen is like getting a free car..
After figuring the money "not spent" compared to a newer car, owning a 4th gen is like getting a free car..
Maybe not "free" but damn inexpensive.
My car has been paid for for the past 16 years.
I also am a fairly regimented maintainer of records associated with the cost and frequency of repairs and upgrades.
Doing some math associated with what my 19 year old car has cost per month for the last 16 years (since pay-off) I've found that my monthly payment has been ~ $32.00.
Replacing the compressor then recharging the AC system is not that complicated but just time consuming. You can purchase a low priced used AC compressor, drier, schrader valves, pag 46 oil, and freon for less than $170. You can rent the electric vacuum pump and AC manifold at your local auto parts store.
One does have to maintain them well. Which means catching up on deferred maintence. But once that's done, they last, and last, and last. They are a nice ride too. Very cost effective to own. Basicly a free, useful appliance most months. Like a good washer and dryer.
Replacing the compressor then recharging the AC system is not that complicated but just time consuming. You can purchase a low priced used AC compressor, drier, schrader valves, pag 46 oil, and freon for less than $170. You can rent the electric vacuum pump and AC manifold at your local auto parts store.
I can sell you this fairly new aftermarket AC compressor.
+1 . Usually you can get an aftermarket a/c compressor with the drier and oil for less than $200USD. Replacing the compressor after the freon is removed is very straight forward and simple process.
Typically women have that problem of pulling off "don't want to keep sinking money into this old car" But honestly these cars are well built and these cars are more n likely paid off, so cheap to insure, and maintain. Yes major repairs will come up as these cars are being 20+ yrs old, but once you get past those repairs...The car is going to last you a looong time. It's basically driving a free car like everyone says..
If I were you do not go to dealerships for repairs.. $1600 for A/C repair is steep.. Go for $700-800. That's reasonable. But you also know whats funny? This would be no different if you went and purchased Seven $100 pair of shoes. The same amount is still withdrawn from your account but in a different category. Think about it..
The cars paid off...Cheap insurance, little to no depreciation.
But then a $1000 repair comes up, people will say "omg so much money for this old car I need to go get a new one!!!" I cant afford this
Later do they know they're getting a car for $10k-20k on a loan, Avg $500 a month payments, on top of maintenance, depreciation costs... and say they can afford that. Car salesman love people like these! Cracks me up every time.. Honestly, these 4th gen's are no more than $50-150 Max a month to own mainly from repairs. Even if you were to get a $3k-5k car, It's going to have its issue too and you don't know its history well as you do with the infinity so your back in the hole again!
Its a two way street with cars
Street 1: Have a loan, depreciation, higher insurance, run risk of having the car taken away if no payments are made after 6+ months, (Avg car payments is $500)
Street 2: Have an old car, NO car payments, LOW Insurance, Have to maintain the car with repairs that end up cheaper, in the long run, depending on the car you have. If it was an old BMW, Mercedes.. then sure dump it because Germans break a lot and very expensive to fix. When It comes to keeping old cars It's usually based on what kind of car it is, why do you think those old honda's reaching 300k miles like its no big deal? But never see a BMW reach that?
At the end of the day, you still are going to lose money owning a car regardless if its old or new. It's an investment but don't see it as something you will make money off on. It's used as transportation or as a hobby for fun.
Replacing the compressor then recharging the AC system is not that complicated but just time consuming. You can purchase a low priced used AC compressor, drier, schrader valves, pag 46 oil, and freon for less than $170. You can rent the electric vacuum pump and AC manifold at your local auto parts store.
I can sell you this fairly new aftermarket AC compressor.
Originally Posted by flames101sully
+1 . Usually you can get an aftermarket a/c compressor with the drier and oil for less than $200USD. Replacing the compressor after the freon is removed is very straight forward and simple process.
If you find an indpendent mechanic, or do the work yourself then including the cost of the freon and all it should come out to less than $400.
I agree with these fellas. They basically stated what I was going to reply with next. If these repairs are beyond your skill level, at least source the parts yourself, as mentioned, then find a shop that will work with you and perform the work at a reasonable cost. At $1,600 they're laughing all the way to the bank.
I agree with these fellas. They basically stated what I was going to reply with next. If these repairs are beyond your skill level, at least source the parts yourself, as mentioned, then find a shop that will work with you and perform the work at a reasonable cost. At $1,600 they're laughing all the way to the bank.
I had earlier started the thread below towards exactly that: sourcing and buying OEM parts. I see that the "Tough One" brand from Advance Auto says "New Calsonic" on the ad copy...is that the exact same as the OEM part at the dealer?
I had earlier started the thread below towards exactly that: sourcing and buying OEM parts. I see that the "Tough One" brand from Advance Auto says "New Calsonic" on the ad copy...is that the exact same as the OEM part at the dealer?
You won't know until you see it. A while back I bought a new electric EGR valve from Advance Auto for the 99 model. When I took it out of the box it turned out to be the same Hitachi unit that I was replacing. Sometimes you can win and get a great part. Other times you lose and get junk.
We spend a lot of time counseling forum visitors to use only OEM parts.
Now Im trying to fix the AC and source OEM parts - but the forum is steering me to aftermarket parts instead.
Once again the width of the line dividing repairs between "have to use OEM parts" and "Don't" is unclear to me.
Usually it comes down to the cost and the importance of the part. Stuff like MAF's and Crankshaft sensors affect the driveability of the car and can leave you stranded if it goes bad and without warning, so you'd want to go with 100% OEM, and those OEM's aren't all that more expensive as you can find them easily at Junkyard's and at Rockauto. And if that (OEM) is not really a costly option for other part then it would also be a good thing to use, however if that cost difference is too much then finding an acceptable aftermarket is the way to go.
For example, I think it was a year and a half ago where I was searching to replace the original radiator and the price I found for an OEM was $1000CAD from a dealership, even though the first one lasted so long, that's just way too much so I went with a Koyo aftermarket in which I could probably replace it more than 10x before I reach the same cost as an OEM. When I did the A/C compressor on the car, the original one had the pully start to leave, and seeing that it was so expensive for an OEM, I got a cheap aftermarket with all the components included and it worked fine. It's not going to be as good as an OEM, but for the cost difference it's worth it (or at least, it's worth it for me).
I'd keep the Max until the engine or transmission gives out.
Secondly, find another AC repair shop. I bet it can be done for half of what you were quoted ($800). Summer is almost over, so if you can wait til mid October when AC demand is lower, I bet you'll get a much, much better price on the work.
I have obtained a second quote, this time from a small Internet-recommended Houston, TX Garden Oaks Auto A/C Repair shop in a metal building down by the river (which is to say, "should nominally be more affordable than the Michelin shop in the Museum District"). The shop was well organized and clean. There was a 2007 Honda Pilot having its rear evaporator serviced while I was there.
After looking at it this AM, their verbal quote over the telephone was $1,500 for OE compressor, o-rings, oil, condenser, dryer, flush evaporator, plus new hoses made on site, with 1 year warranty. I'm waiting on a written quote.
That's compared with Michelin's quote of "$1,600" (without new hoses). So a better deal Down By The River for sure but still lots' more than Mithrandir's $800 guess above.
Again, for reference: the cheapest I was able to find on the interwebs (www.buyautoparts.com) for OEM Low Side & High Side hoses, A/C Compressor and components kit, and Condensor was $621.21.
Wizard - you're in CA, right ? There's no way things in TX (even in the 4th largest city in the country) can really be TWICE what I'm sure is your well-informed Estimation...right?
Last edited by reallywildstuff; 12-06-2018 at 10:36 AM.
Reason: clarity
Do you have tools and skills to install the AC compressor yourself? If you do then save a few grand and DIY. Along with parts mentioned you'll just need to rent an Electric Pump and AC manifold Gauge at a local auto store. If you can handle it then I'll sell you my AC compressor for $20 + S/H.
jholley, Thanks for your offer, which I really appreciate. I have now had the work done down by the river for $1,400, with 1 year warranty.
I have lots of tools, including a manifold set and a Robinair vacuum pump. But I don't have a refrigerant recovery system, nor a scale for measuring it back out. I'm not so scared of the Donald Trump EPA but I'm not down with polluting either. The current "cold" weather would have made it difficult to measure out new refrigerant by pressure.
Even without those concerns: the amount of up-front capital required to obtain all the necessary flushes, o-rings, hoses etc (even before dryer, compressor & condenser) + time to replace all of those things divided by the likelihood of doing it wrong/screwing up those parts/having to do it again = beyond my risk tolerance/amount of time I can afford to burn. Maybe if I had a few more positive a/c open and close experiences I'd be more comfortable.
This car was my wife's daily. My truck was totaled a while back when a color-blind architect ran a stop light, and my wife has since bought a new-used car - So now the '98 i30 is about to be my daily. The A/C is now fixed and I have new CV axles ready to go on very soon.
Wow! I must have lucked out with my 98 I30. I have had it 7 years now with relatively low maintenance. All I have replaced is an alternator and radiator. All I do is change oil and put gas in it. I do need to fix a minor upper oil pan leak and my strut bearings, but they aren't too bad yet. I am going to re grease my starter because it is sticking at times. I love this car even more than my 2014 Rav4. Sorry your I30 has so many problems. This car seems bullet proof and its paid off.
1) No money lost on sales tax
2) Low insurance cost (liability only)
3) No depreciation (bottomed out already)
4) I understand the car. Self service maintenance.
5) No interest expense.
Just the sales tax on a new car would cover this repair.
Keeping our bargain basement great rides around makes lots of economic sense. Might as well drive around in comfort. Perhaps with tinted windows and a good stereo.
I'm reminded of Mercedes Benz of the 70s and 80s. Or the Lexus of the 90s.
Old reliable cars. Not the fanciest. But run, and run, and run.An excellent value for the money.
08-29-2018, 02:57 PM
