THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread
 

ok LISTEN VERY IMPORTANT:

He thinks we have a very good case and would like as much information and proof as possible. He said the best route would be a class action law suit and nissan would have to either compensate the effected parties, give the option of recison(buy back) or fix it to the right hp.

What he asked of me was my dyno tests with THE DATES OF THE DYNO's and THE DATE OF PURCHASE of the car. Along with the telephone numbers of other people who have STOCK dyno tests. PLEASE PLEASE, email me tonight at steve@frankencar.com and i will give you his fax number where he requested all the information be sent to tomorrow.
-DYNO with date and time
-Purchase date of car
-Trannsmission type
-Name and Telephone number to contact you at

What i need help with is finding documentation of the standards for horsepower loss from the crank to the wheels. If someone could please help find that tonight it would be appreciated i'll be dealing with gathering dynoes and also shipping out some intakes lol gotta keep the business going.

MODERATORS-STICKY ME PLEASE

i started a new thread cus the other one got too long and lots of babbling so let's gather this info asap.

This should have gone on the 5th gen area. Anyway, the H-town peeps are getting a dyno session done in a couple of weeks. I'll try to join and redyno in the correct gear. Additionally i think d_warner and a couple other 2k2/3's will be there so that should help the cause.

awesome and woops i posted this in general grrrr.

MODS can you move me to 5th and sticky me. thanks.

they should owe me 100 or so in back HP :gapteeth:

anyway good luck to you guys...from what i've seen other car owners have done this to other manufacturers w/ results...

Steve I have a 2k3 6spd, so I am not sure that I can help, but let us know what we can do.

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but the auto is also the best choice to use due to its 1:1 gearing in third, optimal for dyno. Of course the fact that 4th in the 6 spd is reporting low dyno numbers in an underdrive gear is also useful since one would really expect to see less drivetrain loss due to the torque multiplying behavior of the underdrive gear, however slight it may be. Has anyone been able to determine how the non-existence of a 1:1 gear in the 6spd affects the dyno? Also, as someone mentioned, doesn't the max put out more torque than advertised? Doesn't this kind of cancel out the HP problem? While I understand being a little bit upset, I don't necessarly think this is something to go all out about due to the unlikely nature of being compensated. Some may point to Hyandai, but you have to remember that they can't afford negative publicity, Nissan can to a degree. I think I would just be happy if Nissan fixed the MPG calculation and the throttle responsiveness. I wish everyone the best of luck with this, but as with everything in life, don't get your hopes b/c you're bound to just get let down.

Re: Why compare to Altima?
 

Altima's (240hp advertised) and Maxima's (255hp advertised) seems to be putting down the same power to the wheels (auto vs. auto) and the torque ratings are similar for both cars as well both in paper and on dyno's.

http://www.dynojet.com price varies and it'll take roughly 30 minutes to an hour.

From what I've read on other forums (Ford-related), there are actually a number of different ways that manufacturers can rate the horsepower on their engines, all SAE approved, and pretty much come up with whatever number they want. Of course, I haven't verified this for myself, as I read this on another forum, so it may or may not be true.

I would strongly recommend that you guys check into the Mustang Cobra forums and ask around, as a lot of the guys there were probably around for the infamous 99-00 Cobra (or whenever it was) debacle. Maybe some of them were even involved in providing materials for the case. So definitely check Ford sites out ;)

Good luck guys! :)

Hyundai recently got nabbed by this.

SuDZ

im willing to help out with this. i have a 03 6-spd a few months old with 3300 miles, i'll call a local shop and get a dyno done ASAP. in order for this to really work we need someone to be in charge of this, seems like dmbmax is the person for the job considering he did start the topic and contacted the lawyer. also a webpage would be a good thing to have with all the info for what people can do to help, where to send what info where. stuff like that.

oh for those who are comlaining about the gas mileage, if you want your additional 15hp dont think your going to get better gas mileage too. so its either better gas mileage or more hp, just not both.

more than that:laugh:

ok i'll try and address all the points
2003 maximas can help out just as much, dynoes run about 60-100 bucks and www.dynojet.com gives authorized places. please make sure you use a dyno jet and not a mustang dyno.


i'll do as much checking as i can but as many people that want to help and check otu other forums and post links here will be greatly appreciated

i will start to compile a webpage with links and dynoes over the next few days.

and the 6-spd and autos will both give very precise hp reading, like it's been said the 3rd gear in a auto is 1:1 BUT in teh maxima 6-spd guess waht 4th gear is 1:1 also so that's good for us too.

and anyone who wants to dyno would be greatly appreciated.

hey, I asked the question on Stangnet.com on what they did. Here's the link, I just posted it so wait for responses (if they decide to help)
Stangnet Thread

I'm here starting the chant.. " WHAT - A - JOKE , ch , ch , ch ch ch "

any 4door sedan that is going 14.2's or whatnot, factory - i would not be complaining too much,

but then on the other hand.. if you can get something for free, i can't blame ya!

good luck boys, if you want me to dyno if that helps somehow... ?

Why is ita joke that we we're cheated out of something that we all paid for?

The '99 Cobra was still very fast even with it's missing 25 rwhp. The cars were dynoing in the 260's with the bad manifolds and in the 280's with the revised ones. We are in the exact same boat as they were and we should get everything that we paid for that the sticker listed.

good idea nice call. thanks.

and all we would need is a better manifold to get our extra 15 hp too.

True, however to use one method to messure the altima and then use another method to messure the maxima is considered misleading. Same engine, same tranny, different HP. It's an obvious case of trying to make the "flagship" out flag the cheaper car. Well, looks like we've been had, and I'm ****ed....and not alone. It's quite obvious that the maxima dynos at about 240hp, the same as the Altima. They added HP to sell a more expensive car and to keep them different. We all know from track times and dyno's that our max's are not faster...and they weigh the same!

Hrm..i can proably dyno in california here..2k2..stock airbox now. 26000 miles.

totally stock??? if so and you want to awesome. but i thought you had a rt cat or a catback or something.

Link to better business bureau
 

Click on this link....BBB

Fill out a form...tell them that nissan is rating our car 15hp more than the altima, but that we have various proof that it is exactly the same. Tell them we want Nissan to give us our 15hp or buy back our cars.
I sent mine in already.

Havent had one in 6 months now....but back the stock air box when i put my new STUPID maf in...

sweet, in a bad sorta way you know, so ya if you want to dyno that would be great;ly appreciated.

I read some of the posts about this, its seems like its a worty fight but I have a question. Would the factory installed LSD option make the 6 spd 2k2/2k3s lose a little bit of wheel horsepower? I mean nothing is free and I know some viscous type LSDs (not sure what type the 2k2s have) will lose power transfer efficeny if the fluid gets heated up under heavy use.

If you were to test this power loss theory you would have to get a pair of brand new automatic Maximas and V6 automatic Altimas, they both have the same tranny. My feeling is that if you use a 5 spd LSD non-equipped Altima compared to a 6 spd LSD equiped Maxima this might give Nissan something to fight with in the court, even though the trannies are similar; they may claim otherwise. IMO You have to say that the transmissons are EXACT or calculate the transmisson power loss ratio of the 5 spd Vs 6 spd in order for the Dyno data to hold water in court.

I have an '03 GLE automatic stock with 1700 miles bought on 7/24/02. Is there an ideal mileage to wait until dynoing?

Best of luck in your legal ventures:D

Seems like they could simply issue a recall on this, and everything would be fine! Doesn't seem like too much of a problem for a multi-billion dollar corporation that doesn't want the publicity of 'false advertising'!

98SE- i thought about that i don't have hlsd though, a couple other people that dynoed didn't either. auto to auto dynoes are gonna be the best BUT i thought about the numbers behind it all, nissan would have to go to court and say that the 5-spd in the altima is OVER 5% MORE EFFICIENT then the 6-spd in the maxima and that's unheard of and i don't think that would stand. also about the HLSD i BELIEVE it's different then a VLSD and the power loss inside a HLSD differential should be no more then in a regular one, i'm sure SR20 can give more and better insight on that.

and for dynoes i'd wait till around 2k miles or so, the engine is fairly broken in at 1k but it can't hurt to wait and run on fresh oil too.

and dino a recall sounds like a good idea but imagine what the scope of the recal would be, they would need a manifold and a couple gaskets for i think around 100,000 cars(do we have an exact 2k2-2k3 sales number) and then install them all, i'd love that 15hp but i think we might just end up with compensation(if anything)

theres been a lot of discussion about this on http://www.newtiburon.com

my girlfriend has one and she has been going round and round with hyundai to get some sort of compensation. They have been offering one monthly payment rebate. She got hyundai to give her a $450 check. You probably wont be able to get them to make it better, just get something small back.

My 2K2 dynoed 194.1 hp and 205.4 lbs of torque stock. I thought this is a little low for an advertised 255hp/246 lbs torque. I have my dyno sheet and the rest of the info needed.

I emailed Steve.

i emailed you back :kiss:

I went on their site and couldn't find out what the deal is. Could you please elaborate?

well basically, hyundai sent out a letter of apology and offered to extend one of the warranties. Since they already give a 5 yr. warranty for everything and a 10 yr powertrain, most of the owners wouldn't get that much use of an extended warranty. They gave an office number of the company and worked with arbitrators on an indiviual basis. It was a big hassle and a long process, but many of the owners got some money back.

I think that if you organized an extensive petition (which is what the new tiburon owners did) and called one of the nissan customer service or public relations offices, they would probably work on something similar.

good luck guys.
steve

Hell yeah, that's low. When Nissan first came out with the SER they were spewing that it had 185-190 HP...then a few import mags called BS and Nissan revised its #'s to 175hp, which is still high for that car. It's obvious what Nissan is doing. Time to call them on it...cause they're doing it to the new Z and G35 as well. Nissan should have revised it's #'s on the max, time to catch them in a lie and have them pay up. Even the pathfinder makes 240, I'd like to hear Nissan's explanation on how our maxima's 3.5l makes a magic 15hp.

it doesn't lol

and remember before the max came out they were saying 260hp then they tuned it down to 255, well they didn't tune it down enough.

I saw a few Z Dyno's at about 275 or so some even higher stock.

SuDZ

I've got a bone stock 2k2 6-Speed with 10,000 on it that I bought new late in may of 2002. You just lemme know where to dyno in the south jersey area and I'll be sending you everything you need. Gimme my 15hp... and gimme it NOW.

Aux

that's a 4.18% loss..impossible. I doubt it was stock. They dynoed the new 350z (i wasnt there but read about it on a thread) at Stillen Day and everyone was disappointed.

www.dynojet.com then go to the automotive dynomachines and poke around there is a list of all authorized dyno shop there. good luck and thanks.

update:

heres a link I found:http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cob...lems072301.htm

That was the outcome of the Mustang case. I am still looking for more.