Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Nissan is surely watching these threads. If there not, then they don't care much about there customers. I bought my 03' Maxima cause it had 255hp. All the dynos I've seen on the Max show ~200hp to the wheels. That's a big loss, in this case the engine shouldn't be making over 230hp. I know this thread has been discussed, but if Nissan doesn't address this problem it will be the last time I give them business...

Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Don't you loose 18%.. So in acutality you get 200+hp to the wheels and 255hp at the crank..

An 18% loss = 209.1FWHP. That being said, there is no way in the world an efficient fwd drivetrain loses more than 10% to the wheels.
Please read this article:

http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm

Get together with all of the rest of the malcontents and sue them!

Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Geez hasnt this issue been whipped to death already. The max is supposedly faster than the 260 horse TLS isnt it? Does this mean the Acura is overrated as well?:confused:

Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Yes it has been whipped. I wanted to whip it some more because Nissan is not getting the picture. They can't lure customers to buy there cars by lying to them. NISSAN has not done anything about it yet...:confused:

Sorry but there is no way you are getting a 10% loss on a tranny, manuals are around 15-18% and the autos are 23-25% loss.

Dixit

Look, I am not out to deceive anyone. Nor do I like to get deceived. Usual FWD manual gearbox losses are 6-9%. There is really nowhere to lose HP at in fwd drivetrains. The engine sits so close to where the power is transferred that there is no place for much drivetrain loss. Read this URL before you respond back:

http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm


I agree with the fact that 5th gen maxima owners are making ~200fwhp on the dyno. I just don't believe the engines are making 255hp... more like 220hp at the engine or less.

Re: Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

and they probably won't...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

where's my $25,000 rebate check they owe me on this issue?

Well then if the 2K2/3 VQ 3.5 only makes 220 hp then where in the heck does that leave 2K/1 VQ 3.0 owners.....cause they are "rated" at 222 hp/ AE at 227hp and they are slower than the 2K2/3's:confused: if your logic is correct then i guess they are lucky if they have 200 hp at the crank............i dont belive this to be accurate

I did read the article and wanted you to know what our nissan tranny loss is around from dynos that have been done. This article is incorrect in my opinion. I dont know of any car being FWD that is less than a 10% loss. Take ANY OTHER CAR like a Acura TL/CL, they lose a good 25% as well. This article is not taking clutch plates, bands and other good stuff in an auto tranny that really affects the hp loss in the tranny.

Take for example a Mustang Cobra, the new one putting out 390hp crank. 6spd Manual and it still only dynos at 345hp which is about 12% tranny loss.

Dixit

I, for one, did feel cheated because of the HP issue. But i really couldn't care less... Nissan may have overrated the Hp but they surely underrated the Torque as well. So it all still works out for me.

If you must complain to Nissan for false advertising, include the overrated torque #'s in the equation. After all, they also lied about that.

Well a stock 2k-2k1 auto is slower than the 95-99 stock autos, so....

4th gens are lighter.

as far as losing power through the drivetrain, i would say that a 15% loss from a manual transmission is a GOOD transmission. 18% would be more or less a normal loss and 20% is just BAD.

i have never heard of a car losing less than 10%. the 12% for that mustang is the best that i have heard. and i wouldnt doubt that the mustang is underated like many other fords.

Until you take them to court and show real proof of false advertising (while costing you a pretty penny for trial), all this crying and bickering over the internet isn't going to get you anywhere.

LOL! Welcome to the real world.. I know of NO transmission, SMG, auto, or traditional manual that achieves LESS than 10% loss to the drivetrain...

The TL-S dynos around 194-208hp w/ crank hp of 260hp.. transverse mounted engines, couples w/ multiple clutch-plates and less efficient lock-up torque converters all contribute to the typical 18-25% loss of pwr in ANY fwd/rwd automatic setup. Direct linkage w/ driveshaft and engine w/ manual reduces loss by about 5-15% depending on which car you're looking at..

Personally, I wouldn't get too upset over the issue. What percentage of Nissan customers do us on the .org actually represent? Let alone just 2k2/3 guys. I'd be very surprised if Nissan cares at all.

I think there are more than you think on this board, even the 2002/3 guys. For example, if you take a look at the thread we had going earlier about 6sp owners taking a "survey" about their experience with the transmission, you'll see that there are a lot of names there that I/we don't see as regular posters. On top of that, there are a lot of people just reading threads on this forum, but don't register/post anything. However, by no means am I saying that there's a vast majority of Max owners on this forum, but there are enough here that express concern in order for Nissan to do something about it. Plus, perhaps other Max owners that don't know about this site are also aware of the missing HP issue (by finding out through other means than this board, such as some car magazine or whatever).

It wouldn't require a 100,000 Max owners complaining in order for Nissan to see a lawsuit, which I think, despite what many think, will EVENTUALLY happen (unless Nissan listens up, and does something about it before then). I'm pretty sure that Nissan has reps that look at these forums (maxima.org and freshalloy.com as examples).

By the way, I saw an "incredible" thing while browsing the M5 forum. Some member there was complaining about his clutch excessively slipping, or something to that effect, and after a bunch of people replied to him, there was another reply by a BMW REPRESENTATIVE. He told the guy to call a certain number (he gave some 800 number), and told him that we'll correct if for you. He also told everyone on the board that BMW cares very much for their concerns, and will do their best to take care of any situations that may come up. Of course, if we had paid 70K for the Maxima, we could come to expect the same treatment, but I still found it amazing that BMW would reach out to its customers like that. Great job on their part!

Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

I'm going to sue them too because my 2k SE auto is a relative of the obviously defective 2k2/2k3 SIX SPEED.

Anyone here dyno an auto? Instead of arguing about drivetrain losses of the manual and how much powertrain loss there should be (less than 10%? That's one helluva drivetrain!), DYNO AN AUTOMAGIC!

If it's been done, I'm sorry, but how about we equate that into this thread for oh... let's say 25%.. .and then see who's losing power or not?

I think I'll sue them for MAKING a 2k2/2k3 with HID's/more power while I'm at it too...

Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Well, there is one in the Dyno forum.

Re: Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

Yuppers, I just skimmed the dynos first page.. it seems there's a GLE auto and a SE stick that dynoed similar numbers; in fact only the tq values are a little better in the manual... it seems either the dyno on the auto wasn't done properly, or the 2k2+ trannies are good at preventing parasitic losses and the people who are complaining their car is weak are partially on crack (I know I'm about to get beaten down to a pulp for saying that last bit). Perhaps the problem lies in the crappy 6 speed that I hate and will never drive again in my life (oops, missed 6th, hello 4th).

I'm sick of this HP issue. It amazes me you guys with '02+ Maximas are b itching and complaining about dyno results when your cars are pulling mid/low 14s stock!!! WTF?

My opinion is this, who fukin cares what the dyno says if your car performs in the real world! Let me repeat myself "mid/low 14's stock", does that mean anything to you?

Simply fukin amazed with this $hit,

Maximam

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

IIRC, the initial argument was based on the dyno numbers coming from a 2k2 Maxima Auto vs. 2k2 Altima Auto. They have the same automatic transmission and also puts down the same #'s on the dyno. (e.g. Alleged 255hp vs. 240hp)

I don't know how many times we need to say this, but it's not about the car's real world performance--it's about getting what you paid for. If Nissan said the car has 255hp, then it should have exactly that (+/- standard industry deviations). That's all that it boils down to--nothing less, nothing more!

Well considering the 2k2+ autos/manuals are running significantly better times like very low 14s to high 13 slightly modded, what does that tell you?

Did you read the rest of that article you linked? It's basically saying that chassis dynos are meaningless. So all these numbers that people on this board are putting up, 200, 209, whatever, mean nothing. The only way to see if Nissan is really lying is to do a flywheel dyno. And I don't think anyone here has the ability to do that. So, this is a dead horse until someone comes up with a flywheel dyno.

\

I agree 120%. Like it has been said, are other 4 door sport sedans comparable to the Max overrated as well? Is their a huge big conspiracy throughout the automotive world....:rolleyes: IS THE ACURA TL/S OVERRATED... at 260 hp? Dont these to cars go neck in neck on the street and the track? I mean the 2K2 and 2K3 are the FASTEST stock maximas ever built thus have the highest hp rating ever.....Give me a break, drive your freaking cars and be happy or SELL THEM!!!!!!!! and:rolleyes: Let the flames begin:D

i'm getting in on this thread a little late, but like vito1281 said, Nissan is concerned with the small percentage of enthusiasts that bicker on this web site...we are the kind of radical auto fans that talk highly (or lowly) of our cars...and persuade others to buy our favorites. I have converted NUMEROUS people to Nissan from Chevy's (lumina) Honda (prelude) and on and on...

I'm sure many others have convinced people to swithc as well, but I am having second thoughts now that Nissan is lying about several cars..., and I may steer a friend away from a Sentra, and over to a Civic.

Nissan owes us at the very least an explanation...

Maxima---255??
350Z-----287??
Q45------340??
Spec-V---175??
G35------280??

Nissan is lying to us boys...and girls..

-vq

:fro:

Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

No Acura is not overrated. It just got no torque :laugh:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nissan better give me back my missing HP 03'max
 

while the 6 speed isn't the best, don't blame it your inability to drvie one.

-vq

:fro:

Of course they are!

Did you know... those HID's on your car just LOOK like HID's! They're actually PIAA Plasma bulbs plugged into ballasts that make them look real!

For the love of God... this is stupid. If you don't like your car, sell it - you have not laid down any material proof that you are short on power at the crank - read and digest this statement before responding. A pile of dyno sheets from 6speed vq35's is only a piece of the pie.

That's exactly it! Commercials and ads don't sell nearly as many cars as customer recommendations, and I'm sure Nissan knows this VERY well.

About the HP issue, I seriously doubt that Nissan is straight-up lying about the HP, I just think they used some overly-optimistic method to calculate HP, and posted that number. For example, whatever industry-standard method is used to evaluate HP, it must have some sort of acceptable error deviation %. So what Nissan probably did is they computed their average HP (50% percentile lets say), but then they added on the acceptable deviation so that (again, as an example) only 1% of the cars can really have 255hp. This is just a guess, but I have a feeling Nissan played with the number, rather than just lying.

:werd:

Some people just don't know how to lay this thing to rest or at least put it on a warmer until REAL FRIGGING PROOF exists.

YES MaxiMA'AM!

With the current edition of "255 horepower" putting down mid-to-low 14's; one would think the Maxima could run high 13's to low 14's if we REALLY had 255hp. Or mabye at least consistent low 14's?

I think so...and I want my 255hp...all of it.

quit b!tching us out for our b!tching...at least ours is for a worthy cause...

-vq

:fro:

:werd:

I think the biggest problem in getting Max in high 13s stock, is launching it. FWD and front suspension design just creates too much wheel hop, etc. But what is impressive that Max is starting to really pull once you midway through 1/4.
And I think there are number of people with 6-speed Max that ran low 14s, which I think is pretty good.

simple advice from a guy who likes RICE
 

If guys like "jer" and "jjs" don't want to talk about the possibility that Nissan screwed us out of some power, They may want to avoid going to the threads called "Lets Sue Nissan for Missing HP!" or The New Let's Sue Nissan for our 15 horepower! or anything like it...

Just sum advice. Hopefully it will keep your heart-rate down.

-vq

:fro:

Re: simple advice from a guy who likes RICE
 

OH, now you guys are talking "about the possibility"...

interesting since all these threads have the tone that it is a PROVEN FACT and something needs to be done about it!

My heart rate is fine, I just wish people would take the adage that "if the lips stop moving the brain might start working" to heart and understand what constitutes PROOF.

Re: Re: simple advice from a guy who likes RICE
 

did you read the WHOLE url?

here it is again...just a refresher...we no lose 25% in fwd drivetrain...

http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm

-vq

:fro: