MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

They have tiptronic?...yeah, but I have a 5-speed. No matter what you do...the manual is faster to shift than a tiptronic. Put the tiptronic 911 against the 5-speed. Guess who wins.

I agree with the 33 hp on my AE (not 40) , but 300 lbs is a good deal of weight. That's equivalent to a full grown man and full grown woman in your car...imagine racing with those extra people...that would make a huge difference.

tomz17

Correct, the tiptronic 911 lags behind by about .6 secs on 0-60, i believe... (which is a lot... that puts it down to about the speed of a viper)

If they (Type S) are a good run with tiptronic, imagine if it came with a manual tranny..

Only advantage I can see, is that the tiptronic would give you much more consistent performance.. with a manual you can f*** up.... automatics are virtually idiot proof..

And I agree again... a significant portion of their 40 HP advantage is "wasted" on pushing around the extra 300 or so lbs...

Personally, I think that it would be a really tight race... It's all about driver skill.. Anyone who claims (ahem acura forums) that the Type S will consistantly beat the Maxima or vice versa needs to get their ego checked out...

A clearcut situation would be something like an M5 vs. Maxima, or Maxima vs. Metro.. There are so many variables to account for in a race, that it's impossible to predict a winner with any level of certainty (and i'm just talking about a regular stoplight street race... forget about racing someone around twisties or through traffic)

IMHO, this list should be categorized into a list of cars the Maxima DEFINITELY beats (hehe like a geo metro, dodge neon, etc.), and a list of cars that you CAN BEAT, but should watch out for... (I would put the acura in this category, and even cars like the camry and accord)


-Tom Z.

martinf

I beat the following

84 Escort

80 Horizon

81 Chevette

69 Peugeot 204

81 Rabbit

footemps

I'm still saying, racing is almost nothing about the cars but is nothing without the cars. Yeah, you need cars to race but you need smarts and skills to win.

NISMO SHOULD MAKE AFTERMARKET STUFF FOR MAXIMA!!!

MAX2000JP

Ooops..Clutch in, reverse...I missed a Jag on this list??!!

Sorry for the venting guys but....don't mess with the Jag's

Even the lowest model Jag produces, the V6 S-Type, is a potent vehicle. Let's look at a few specs.

1. Weight = 3900lb (52/48 weight dist B/T/W)
2. 281hp/287ft-lbs torque
3. Pulls .82 on the skidpad with STOCK tires
4. Moves out at 0-60 in 7.0 and QM at 15.5 @ 91mph with an automatic!

That's only the start...Get up to the XJR (my ride) and now you're smoking something besides the tires.

Comments??

[/B][/QUOTE]


V-8 Jag S-type isnt that fast. I drove the 4.0 and it moves, but is underpowered compared to the competition and has to soft of suspension. It looks nice on the outside(very similar to the E-class), but the inside looks a lot like the LS. Personally i wouldnt waste my money on an S-type, I would visit my lincoln dealer and get a LS V8 for a lot cheaper

tomz17

Wait.. did I miss something?? with those specs, it sounds like that Jag shouldn't be a prob. for the manual guys...

Auto for Auto, it would be a very tight race, tho.. (tho it sounds like the Jag would have the upper hand)

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

I agree. Conservative numbers put a 5-speed sub seven seconds and just over 15.

Maximam

I may be a Maxima fan but a TL-S I feel will out handle our Maximas. The TLS has four wheel independent suspension while we have lo-tech old school torsion beams out back.

Mark

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

The Porsche specs you are relaying are a bit off based on the newest reviews on the '01 911 Turbo in C&D.

911 Turbo Manual 0-60: 3.9 seconds
911 Turbo Tip 0-60: 4.2 seconds
911 Turbo Manual 0-150: 25.9 seconds
911 Turbo Tip 0-150: 30.2 seconds

We can assume, safely, that the lag on the Acura Tiptronic will be more significant than Porsche's...Porsche has mastered the tiptronic.

Also, note how significantly the tiptronic lags at high-speeds. We could assume the same sort of high-speed lag in Acura's, however...their added horsepower might make it even...I think it would be a great race as I've said numerous times before.

Yes, if the Acura had a manual on the CL-S...they would smoke my baby stock. Rumors say the CL-S will get a 6-speed soon.

FYI...The Viper is side-by-side with the manual 911 Turbo and faster at high speed acceleration (pure power advantage...911:415hp/Viper:450hp). Your comments suggested that the Viper was closer to the tiptronic 911 which is not accurate by any numbers I've seen.

MAX2000JP

Jags should be a problem, except the R-specs.

Heres what i noticed from the list:

BMW
sorry a Maxima wont beat a z3 3.0 or the M roadster. As for the 750iL, it will light us up. From a standstill it might seen slow, hit it on the highway and it will just pull on us.

Mercedes:
an e320 is a good match for a 5 speed maxima. It will keep up with my Maxima, so i dont know how u get it would lose to an auto.

Also a SLK320 will light us up and so will the SLK 3.2

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

This is one place that I think most people generally agree the Maxima has an advantage on. The Acura's softer suspension tends to be more apt to roll.

tomz17

Nope.. my numbers were almost dead on (I was off by .1 secs) ... your numbers seem a tad low (especially for the Tiptronic)

Out of curiosity I had to go find these numbers again, and here are the EXACT numbers from the Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG website.

Manual

Top Speed 189 mph
0-62mph 4.2 s
0-99mph 9.2 s
Flexibility 50-75mph 5.0 s (5th Gear)


Tiptronic S
Top Speed 185 mph
0-62mph 4.9 s
0-99mph 10.6 s
Flexibility 50-75mph 6.0 s (4th Gear)

Moral of the story, even the perfection of a Porsche Tiptronic can't keep up with a stick.. a diff of .7 seconds is about a 15% difference in acceleration... even in a street race, that's a helluva lot...

My conclusion... an S-type acura with tiptronic is fast... one with a stick would be wickedly fast...

-Tom Z.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Here is my source:

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...orsche_911.xml

You can search there and find the original article on the manual tranny too.

Keep this in mind...your numbers are 0-62 mph, mine are 0-60 mph. Although that doesn't seem like much...follow the below equation...I'm rounding to 4 seconds for the sake of discussion.

60mph / 4 seconds = 15mph/second
15mph / 10 = 1.5mph/10th

So...assuming the acceleration curve was even from 0-60 we could expect a .13 second time difference between 60 and 62 mph...however, the curve is not even. Low end acceleration is much faster. In fact, C&D had the 911 get from 0-30 in 1.6 seconds and 30-60 took 2.3 seconds. The last 10mph from 50-60 takes a full second in C&D's tests. So approximately 15% of the acceleration takes 25% of the time.

My point is that our numbers may be very close to each other actually. We can both be right :

Maximam

I drive a GLE and could not imagine a car being softer. (Don't go around a soft corner with a slight bump at over 80mph, the rear is all over the place.) I should say that the TL-S has more suspension tuning potential.

Actually I am a fan of a rear drive IRS car, I hate FWD cars but the Colorado snow and rear drive don't mix very well.

Mark

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious what you mean by that. Explain.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

You may be right about the GLE. We mostly are comparing the CL-S to the SE 5-speed. Remember, the SE suspension is tuned differently than the GLE.

QUANSUNG

V-8 Jag S-type isnt that fast. I drove the 4.0 and it moves, but is underpowered compared to the competition and has to soft of suspension. It looks nice on the outside(very similar to the E-class), but the inside looks a lot like the LS. Personally i wouldnt waste my money on an S-type, I would visit my lincoln dealer and get a LS V8 for a lot cheaper [/B][/QUOTE]i walked a jag 3.0 type s with a passenger in my car and a cl-s with 2 passengers in my car and new transmission :the acura had 1 passenger ,i pulled hard on them both in 3rd gear.the cl-s seemed quicker then the jag,gotta look out when more of the acura guys start getting mods.

tomz17

Actually, i like the way you think, but even factoring in all of this the tiptronic porsche should hit 62mph in 4.434 seconds... (using the c&d data)..

I'm a math minor, so i'm pretty confident about the math (**note : it's to 3 DECIMAL PLACES!!!, unless i punched a wrong number on my calculator...) However, as a physics major, i've spent enough time in the lab to know that experimental error is the culprit at hand (in addition, there is so much more that can affect a car's performance... like temp, atmospheric pressure, etc.).. i'm sure porsches numbers are conservative, but I question the c&d times... In either case, we've wandered off topic, and the original point I wanted to make that even a porsche tiptronic tranny paled in comparison to a stick...

-Tom Z.

Maximam

There is much more you can do with caster/camber/toe changes with a IRS. Each wheel being independent from one another is an advantage as not to upset the other in compression or rebound. When was the last time we have seen a road course/grand prix race car with a solid rear axle? In the twisties IRS is the way to go, if you drive in a straight line a solid beam works just fine.

Not to start trouble, but I feel for 28K my max should have came with IRS. We know it costs more to build a car with IRS and is why our Maximas don't have it. Nissan finally put IRS on the Altima which is a good sign of things to come.

Mark

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

Who are you trying to fool? Not me. Those are specs for the V8 S-type. The V6 S-type runs 0-60 in "less than" 9 seconds. Thats slower compared to us.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

You should have posted the entire formula. I could use a brush up anyway...I finished my EE quite a bit ago...but I think I can hang.

Mugen13

In one of the magazines. It was talking about the Jag S-type and was saying that Ford is going to make 10% of those w/ a 5spd. And they compared it to other cars, and only 3% of Maxima's have 5spds. So i don't think the 20+ppl w/ 5spds make up the majority here.

When they get those 6spds in the Cl-S and TL-S, that is defintely a low 14 sec car and is going to kick ***. Add the Comptech Headers(25+hp) and the AEM CAI, that is going to be a wicked car.

tomz17

No magical formula here... i just fitted the C&D data to a curve, and solved for 62 mph... From what I recall, the curve fit rather nicely, so i was pretty confident the number I got would be very close to the actual value..

(I definitely don't remember the exact equation used, or even the type of curve that worked the best (I do remember it definitely wasn't a simply ln curve.. cuz that was my first hunch.).. unfortunately I used my calculator last night while programing something and cleared the memory.. if you really want, I can go back and re-trace my steps)


-Tom

Maximam

I agree, that TL-S will be very nice.

Mark

Bean

Well I have to correct something here... First please please please quit going by C&D numbers... that magazine CANNOT drive

a Porsche 911TT brand new will run 11.80s STOCK
0-60 in 3.6 bro... .3s at that low of a time is A LOT

the viper is NOT side by side with a 911TT... it would get its *** handed to it in everything except in top speed... which only varies by about 5mph or so...

Here's some specs here...
Viper 3400lbs and around 480hp (remember its underrated)
911TT 3100lbs and around 415hp... AWD... there's your advantage...
sorry but the Viper isn't anything compared to a 911TT... except better looking IMO...

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Just checking if you actually can back up your claims with experience? Are you suggesting that Brock Yates, Cere, etc. cannot drive. Fairly well respected production vehicle drivers across the industry (when it comes to non-modified vehicle)? Okay...well then your credentials would be appreciated...since you evidently know more about performance driving than folks who drive almost every production vehicle that hits the streets, let us know who you are.

FYI...I am willing to accept I am wrong and that you are the authority on this topic if you show me why.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

It is 80+ degrees and sunny in Seattle today, so I clearly am not 100% sober, so please accept that the last post was not intended to be offensive even though it may read that way.

Bean

because the people on Car&Driver can't race to save their life...
they don't know how to handle AWD vehicles

a statement I remember by them in one of their latest articles... i'll find out what month that is...
but it goes like this: "Too bad this car has AWD; AWD really bogs out the launch and slows the car down on launch"

That, and that every other magazine out there quotes lower times than they do just shows me they can't drive

for instance... they get a Camaro SS to run high 13s? BAH
an automatic 2001 Camaro SS will run a 12.9 BONE STOCK
you have to launch it right; but it WILL do it... i've seen it happen at the strip; and i've read it in two magazines.. hotrod and superchevy...

In motortrend's initial issue of the 911TT... the 2001 model... the 911TT did a 0-60 in 3.6s anda 1/4 mile of 11.80s...
the Viper with a really good driver will pull 0-60 in 3.9-4.0 and a 1/4 mile of 11.9 to 12.1...
Car&Driver also quotes the Z06 to do a 1/4 mile in the high 12s... which is WAY off... i've seen someone take a Z06 to 12.2 bone stock and 11.9 with slicks...

another example is the 360 Modena... C&D quotes it doing 0-60 in 4.5? thats way off... i've seen clips of a 360 running 0-60 of 3.9... and motortrend got 3.9s in their test as well...

want more examples? i can still bring up the Cobra R, the Saleen S351, the post-99 Cobra, Lamborghini Diablo 6.0, etc

thats why i say C&D can't drive for ****...
Motortrend is much better... for some reason they keep getting more real life examples... and C&D is WAY off...
but most people on the net bench race anyway and have never been to an actual drag strip

Bean

as for my credintials... did i spell that right? hehe

anyway... i've been reading about cars for about 4 to 5 years...
i didn't REALLY get heavy into cars until i got my 300zx Twinturbo... which i still have if anyone wants to buy it
i got my Z back in October of 1999... ever since then i've been living and breathing cars... i've been working on them since i got my Z... that isn't easy on that car lol
and everytime i think about getting a different car i read A LOT about it... like until 4:00-5:00 in the morning...
I also own a Eagle Talon TSI AWD... i know quite a bit about DSMs, etc...
i really got into the mechanics of how things work, like turbos and the engine itself....
i've been to the dragstrip countless times, i've been streetracing as long as I've had my Z... and i've been to the autocrosses in P'cola quite a bit...

basically i know most stuff with real world examples... like Civic SIs in magazines claiming to run 15s stock... they don't... the best i've ever seen witha good driver is a 16.0
and also people claiming a stock AWD DSM has the same ET as a stock FWD DSM... with equal drivers that isn't true...
bone stock a AWD DSM will run a 14.8 @ 91ish mph...

i've also sorted through a lot of BS about 300zx's as well... i know that they're worthless to mod if you want to go really fast because too much **** breaks and its impossible to do almost anything without removing the engine...
etc etc etc

Runutzzzzz

My car can beat a Maxima. I race my friends AE Maxima all the time! And I only shift at 5K and give him a head start!! He says he will kill me when he gets the Stupid Charger from Stealin. When i had a Maxima I loved the thing to death! I had the stupid charger, and everything else know to the Maxima at the time. But I still for some odd reason wanted a Acura TL when it was brand new, but held back cause they wanted FULL STICKER for the damn car. Maxima is one of the best values for a mid-size car, unless you get a loaded, or a AE then it's kinda pricy.

Bean

ummm the TL is the family sedan i believe... the CL is the coupe and the Type-S is the fast one

and i will defend the maxima in that respect... there is NO TL or CL that will beat a Y2K maxima except the Type-S...

and remember the Type-S is VERY expensive...

and if you really had a supercharger as you claim you wouldn't have wasted your money on one of those Acuras... i guarentee you that your CL or TL or whatever it is wouldn't touch a supercharged maxima...

IMO you're all slow as fuc... but its all in the classes i think...

if this is a joke post forget what i just said

Runutzzzzz

Actually I did have a supercharger, if any of you remember I had the first kit ever aval. And yes I did waste my money on a Acura/Honda, and YES, I GUARANTEE my "whatever" would KILL, I mean KILLL A Supercharged Maxima.

P.S. the Type-S is about the same price as a AE Maxima

tomz17

Oh no... not again!!! DUCK!!!

Bean

hahaha

your "whatever" ?

you mean you don't even know what you have... then how do you know you'd beat a supercharged Maxima?

damn trolls... they are like weeds... you keep killing them but they never go away...

did your honda friends in their Civic EX with intake and exhaust tell you your "whatever" would beat a supercharged maxima?
*LOL*

Runutzzzzz

Actually, I was quoting you when you said "Whatever" My "Whatever" Will kill a Supercharged Maxima. My "Whatever" is a HONDA Twin Turbo NSX and I don't have any friends with Civic EX's my Dyno and my time slips tell it all.

Robert
Twin Turbo NSX
351RWHP
Mid 11's

PhatGuy

IMO only.
No offence to anyone. But if I had twin turbo NSX I wouldn't be wasting my time posting on this board. Might consider 911TT, Viper, or maybe F-18TT boards. I love the net...can drive anything you want.... But if I had a Civic EX with a coke can pipe and I wish I had twin turbo NSX I might have the time and consider posting on this board. IMO only!

Runutzzzzz

I'm a Maxima fan, so I keep up with this stuff. I've got a friend with a AE Maxima. I had a Maxima when there were only maybe 100 or less people on the "Maxima" board. So why don't you come to the BIG Maxima meet here in DC and I'll show you my mid engine Honda Civic EX with my dual coke can pipe.

PhatGuy

I don't care too much about Civics for all sorts of reasons. Don't care if they can do 1/4mile in 11 seconds... I see those lil racers all over the place. A supercharged Maxima is something I don't see everyday so if I went to DC it wouldn't be to see a Civic. I really hope you are enjoying your car. I myself love how the Maxima looks and how quiet/comfortable/classy it is. I also love how so many non maxima owners come to the board.

PS Why don't you bring the Twin Turbo NSX? That would be a lot more interesting than the Civic. Or better yet bring a Maxima since it is Maxima meet?

Bean

sure you do troll...

tell me what your Twinturbo NSX ran in the 1/4 mile.. what was its trap speed?

what was your 60'?

what was your 0-60?

how much horsepower are you putting down?
what kind of turbos are you running?
what compressor wheel, exhaust turbine are you running in them? whats the A/R on the exhaust side? are they mitsubishi or garret or greddy turbos?
are they intercooled? did you build the bottom end of the car? do you even know what that is?
what kind of boost are you running?
what are your EGTs when you cross the finish line?

if you really had a TT NSX you still wouldn't match up to a certain 280z i know of

Runutzzzzz

60ft time was I belive a 2.1, 0-60 3.8 Trap speed is 120, 351 RWHP, or about 420 to the crank, I'm running Aerodyne self contained turbos. they are twin intercooled, stock engine, 6PSI. O.k. I still wouldn't match up to a certain 280z you know but you know something, that's like saying I know a TT NSX that YOU wouldn't match up to. There's always someone faster than you... Are you in the DC area? Or are you going to Maximus??? I'll be there with my friend.