Dress up your Engine Bay -- A Write-up for Nuts & Bolts
10-06-2010, 10:26 AM
#41
Let me point out that the nuts and bolts found at a hardware store are lower grade metals than those found at an automotive shop. We need grade 8 or higher for automotive work. Hardware stores typically use grade 5 which will not hold up. Please take note when dressing.
The point of this thread, however, is dressing up the engine bay. And until you get a bunch of titanium parts in your hand, it's hard to explain how cool that is. The sharp edges, the color and the lightweight is, well... cool.
10-06-2010, 11:17 AM
#42
I agree that certain bolts need to be higher grade. Structural bolts though. Fender bolts and other bolts that are holding brackets etc could be made of aluminum and would still function normally. Obviously you can't hold your struts to the steering knuckles with aluminum.
But a lot of race cars use titanium because they are as strong as steel. Unalloyed titanium is just as strong as a low grade steel and has a tensile strength in the neighborhood of 63000 psi IIRC. Add a few alloys to that and you can get upwards of 200000 psi. At half the weight. And highly corrosion resistant.
All the places under the hood that Rochester has pointed out can be safely replaced with aluminum or low grade steels. There is no shearing force which would cause any breakage of the screws. They are there just to hold something in place. For looks, titanium is best because it does not corrode even in the harshest environments. Aluminum corrodes easily unless anodized. Stainless will corrode unless it is marine grade, but still more quickly than titanium
But a lot of race cars use titanium because they are as strong as steel. Unalloyed titanium is just as strong as a low grade steel and has a tensile strength in the neighborhood of 63000 psi IIRC. Add a few alloys to that and you can get upwards of 200000 psi. At half the weight. And highly corrosion resistant.
All the places under the hood that Rochester has pointed out can be safely replaced with aluminum or low grade steels. There is no shearing force which would cause any breakage of the screws. They are there just to hold something in place. For looks, titanium is best because it does not corrode even in the harshest environments. Aluminum corrodes easily unless anodized. Stainless will corrode unless it is marine grade, but still more quickly than titanium
10-06-2010, 11:30 AM
#44
Time will tell about the stainless steel items. I've got a mix of both.
10-06-2010, 03:16 PM
#45
You guys are right, it's not required but SAE spec calls for Stainless Steel SAE Grade 304 (8, 10, and 10.9) in motor vehicles. Long story short, the Society of Automotive Engineers wants to keep you safe and eventhough the majority of these bolts and nuts are just for simple supports (fuse boxes, headlamps, fenders, engine covers), it's worth the time to make sure that your equipment is supported and installed correctly.
10-06-2010, 03:53 PM
#46
Good thing it's not required, as I don't think you'll find ANY 304 SS fasteners on our cars.
304 is used for pots, pans and the fork you're eating dinner with. I'd be interested to see where you've found bolts made out of 304 that are 10.9 grade.
SS is pretty, not strong.
10-06-2010, 03:55 PM
#47
10-06-2010, 04:35 PM
#48
I agree with roderiques. If any of these business's were smart, they would market a package deal for this community.I must say, this write up is extremely helpful. Great work on taking the time to not only replace these areas on your maxima, but also to contribute in helping other members out. I for one don't have many mods, but this is just a little extra step in making one's ride stand out. Nothing says CLEAN, more then a clean engine bay. I will be sure to tackle this one day. As my bolts are slowly starting to need that extra attention.
10-06-2010, 05:23 PM
#49
I agree with roderiques. If any of these business's were smart, they would market a package deal for this community.I must say, this write up is extremely helpful. Great work on taking the time to not only replace these areas on your maxima, but also to contribute in helping other members out. I for one don't have many mods, but this is just a little extra step in making one's ride stand out. Nothing says CLEAN, more then a clean engine bay. I will be sure to tackle this one day. As my bolts are slowly starting to need that extra attention.
Teaner, thank you for your comments about contributing to the community. Intrinsic rewards are the things that make creative efforts worthwhile. But it's really nice to hear when efforts are appreciated.
Last edited by Rochester; 10-06-2010 at 05:37 PM.
10-06-2010, 09:43 PM
#51
Good thing it's not required, as I don't think you'll find ANY 304 SS fasteners on our cars.
304 is used for pots, pans and the fork you're eating dinner with. I'd be interested to see where you've found bolts made out of 304 that are 10.9 grade.
SS is pretty, not strong.
304 is used for pots, pans and the fork you're eating dinner with. I'd be interested to see where you've found bolts made out of 304 that are 10.9 grade.
SS is pretty, not strong.
10-10-2010, 09:04 AM
#52
In case anyone needs a stronger visual on what can motivate you to replace engine bay nuts & bolts, take a look at this. I swapped out these two bolts this morning, and thought it would make an interesting, side-by-side macro shot.
[edit: my bad. That's a SS bolt, not Ti.)
[edit: my bad. That's a SS bolt, not Ti.)
Last edited by Rochester; 11-08-2010 at 05:20 AM.
10-11-2010, 04:56 AM
#55
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Really.....great work John! If I have a few more minutes in each day, this would definitely be on my list since you made so easy to follow.
Great contribution!
10-11-2010, 05:32 AM
#56
Yesterday, I updated the spreadsheet in Post #1, and re-created the map photo in Post #2, color coded for M10, M8 and M6 applications, and to include a few bolts around the battery that I had missed.
10-11-2010, 06:06 AM
#57
how hard was it to get some of those bolts off? the one in the above picture looks pretty rusted?
and do you think these can replace some of the ones under the car that see more direct contact with the elements and are a PITA to get off?
B
and do you think these can replace some of the ones under the car that see more direct contact with the elements and are a PITA to get off?
B
10-11-2010, 06:47 AM
#58
So far, I've only snapped one bolt; (one of the four M6 bolts used to hold the NWP Torque Link Connector frame plate. Very unhappy about that one.
)As to bolts under the car... if I had a lift built into my garage, then I'd probably go down that crazy road. And get busy grinding rust off the frame and repainting. However, um, no. That's not going to happen.
10-11-2010, 06:54 AM
#59
Buy a can of penetrating oil. I've been using KROIL for some time now. Love this stuff. If you're worried about snapping a bolt, apply the penetrating oil at least an hour before you try to loosen it. And if you're really, really worried, apply it a few times the day before you try to loosen it.
So far, I've only snapped one bolt; (one of the four M6 bolts used to hold the NWP Torque Link Connector frame plate. Very unhappy about that one.)
As to bolts under the car... if I had a lift built into my garage, then I'd probably go down that crazy road. And get busy grinding rust off the frame and repainting. However, um, no. That's not going to happen.
So far, I've only snapped one bolt; (one of the four M6 bolts used to hold the NWP Torque Link Connector frame plate. Very unhappy about that one.
)As to bolts under the car... if I had a lift built into my garage, then I'd probably go down that crazy road. And get busy grinding rust off the frame and repainting. However, um, no. That's not going to happen.
on the lift.B
10-11-2010, 08:53 AM
#60
I've messed with my foglights countless times. Never had any issues with seized bolts down there. The splash guards do a pretty good job of keeping everything sealed up. The nuts that hold my fogs in place look brand new, in fact.
10-13-2010, 02:26 PM
#63
I mentioned somewhere here that these Password-JDM Fender Washers come with 20mm countersunk, stainless-steel allenheads. However, that's 20mm as measured from the flat top, not the lower edge, which means you only get a few turns on them when used for the engine cover.
So... I found a site through ebay that's selling 25mm countersunk allenheads for $12 shipped (from Hong Kong). And these are Titanium.
Unquestionably, the titanium bolts are nicer, and they're the proper length. But the lip on the Ti-bolt head is thicker than the SS bolts, which means the bolt is not perfectly flat inside the collar.
Meh. Nothing is ever perfect. I should just stop trying.
Obviously, the one on the left here is the stainless steel bolt, and the one on the right is Titanium.
So... I found a site through ebay that's selling 25mm countersunk allenheads for $12 shipped (from Hong Kong). And these are Titanium.
Unquestionably, the titanium bolts are nicer, and they're the proper length. But the lip on the Ti-bolt head is thicker than the SS bolts, which means the bolt is not perfectly flat inside the collar.
Meh. Nothing is ever perfect. I should just stop trying.
Obviously, the one on the left here is the stainless steel bolt, and the one on the right is Titanium.
10-22-2010, 05:37 AM
#64
I'm a little late on this, but I sent an email to www.DressUpBolts.com asking for a price on titanium fasteners. I haven't gotten a response, yet, and I sent the old .xls list instead of the new one you've put together, but what sort of price did you get when going with a full titanium kit? I'm expecting around $250.00.
10-22-2010, 05:57 AM
#65
I'm a little late on this, but I sent an email to www.DressUpBolts.com asking for a price on titanium fasteners. I haven't gotten a response, yet, and I sent the old .xls list instead of the new one you've put together, but what sort of price did you get when going with a full titanium kit? I'm expecting around $250.00.
Point in fact, there is no "kit" per se for our cars. That spreadsheet was just a personal guideline for me to keep organized. I'm sharing it so others can do the same, if they like.
My recommendation is that you review the suggestions on the spreadsheet as it suits your intentions, with an eye under the hood to make sure each piece is really something you want. After you get all your ducks in a row, contact Chris at DressUpBolts.com, and he'll put together a custom order for exactly the pieces you want.
Lastly, please don't interpret my research as gospel. Confirm things according to your own experience and needs. And be patient with DressUpBolts.com... Sometimes businesses are smaller and more personal than your first impression through the mighty Interweb.
Good luck, Robert.
10-22-2010, 07:13 AM
#67
The little things mean almost as much as major mods, because it personalizes the hobby.
Or you could just call Psychological BS on that. Either way.
Last edited by Rochester; 10-22-2010 at 07:46 AM.
10-22-2010, 09:02 AM
#68
To your point... it's a (relatively) inexpensive and engaging activity to be occupied with over a few months. I like to always have something going on with the car, even if it's small... like waiting on some bolts, or LED bulbs.
The little things mean almost as much as major mods, because it personalizes the hobby.
Or you could just call Psychological BS on that. Either way.
The little things mean almost as much as major mods, because it personalizes the hobby.
Or you could just call Psychological BS on that. Either way.
10-22-2010, 11:23 AM
#70
I never priced out a full titanium kit. The only pieces I bought in titanium are the strut nuts, the M6 nuts, and just a few of the bolts. The rest are stainless steel.
Point in fact, there is no "kit" per se for our cars. That spreadsheet was just a personal guideline for me to keep organized. I'm sharing it so others can do the same, if they like.
My recommendation is that you review the suggestions on the spreadsheet as it suits your intentions, with an eye under the hood to make sure each piece is really something you want. After you get all your ducks in a row, contact Chris at DressUpBolts.com, and he'll put together a custom order for exactly the pieces you want.
Lastly, please don't interpret my research as gospel. Confirm things according to your own experience and needs. And be patient with DressUpBolts.com... Sometimes businesses are smaller and more personal than your first impression through the mighty Interweb.
Good luck, Robert.
Point in fact, there is no "kit" per se for our cars. That spreadsheet was just a personal guideline for me to keep organized. I'm sharing it so others can do the same, if they like.
My recommendation is that you review the suggestions on the spreadsheet as it suits your intentions, with an eye under the hood to make sure each piece is really something you want. After you get all your ducks in a row, contact Chris at DressUpBolts.com, and he'll put together a custom order for exactly the pieces you want.
Lastly, please don't interpret my research as gospel. Confirm things according to your own experience and needs. And be patient with DressUpBolts.com... Sometimes businesses are smaller and more personal than your first impression through the mighty Interweb.
Good luck, Robert.
10-22-2010, 11:54 AM
#71
You read into my comments that I'm offended? Seriously?
I've been wondering myself about the engine mount bolts; (specifically the tranny and passenger mounts.) But I wasn't going to look any deeper into that until I buy new mounts next spring. At this point, I don't even know what size they are... M10, I think. Mine are rusted out, nasty hunks of steel. When the time comes, I was thinking of getting the mount hardware powdercoated, and buying some Ti-bolts for the install.
Let us know what you find out.
I've been wondering myself about the engine mount bolts; (specifically the tranny and passenger mounts.) But I wasn't going to look any deeper into that until I buy new mounts next spring. At this point, I don't even know what size they are... M10, I think. Mine are rusted out, nasty hunks of steel. When the time comes, I was thinking of getting the mount hardware powdercoated, and buying some Ti-bolts for the install.
Let us know what you find out.
10-22-2010, 12:22 PM
#72
We actually have a powdercoating oven at my friends house. We're not sure if it works (it was given to his father by a family friend, because the friend had no use for it), but I was going the exact same route.
Last edited by RobertColianni; 10-22-2010 at 01:31 PM.
10-22-2010, 01:28 PM
#73
Just an FYI, I just got back from Ace hardware and the 4 collar-nuts that hold down the upper radiator brackets and also a support on each headlight are called 'Whiz Nuts'.
They did not have them in SS, but in a bright aluminum finish, 23 cents each.
Oh hey, one other thing. If it was me I would not mess with the fender nuts if you ever plan on trading or selling your Maxima. That is the first place an appraiser looks to see if the fenders have been removed/replaced. The paint on the nuts should be original with no marks from a socket on the corners of the nuts.
Does anyone know what color paint best matches the silvery-color of our engine covers? The silver is chipping off on mine in parts and the base black plastic is showing through.
They did not have them in SS, but in a bright aluminum finish, 23 cents each.
Oh hey, one other thing. If it was me I would not mess with the fender nuts if you ever plan on trading or selling your Maxima. That is the first place an appraiser looks to see if the fenders have been removed/replaced. The paint on the nuts should be original with no marks from a socket on the corners of the nuts.
Does anyone know what color paint best matches the silvery-color of our engine covers? The silver is chipping off on mine in parts and the base black plastic is showing through.
Last edited by trooplewis; 10-22-2010 at 01:50 PM.
10-24-2010, 02:33 PM
#74
Hood Latch Bracket
I just realized the hood latch bracket uses two M8x20mm bolts that are obvious, once you take notice. And yeah, I'm very aware now of how rusty that area is. 
Anyway, here's what I'm talking about. The bolt on the right was cleaned up on the wire-wheel. The bolt on the left... not yet.
Interesting looking bolt, once you scrape it clean. However, it will rust up right away, so I'm going to replace them with Stainless Steel.
Anyway, here's what I'm talking about. The bolt on the right was cleaned up on the wire-wheel. The bolt on the left... not yet.
Interesting looking bolt, once you scrape it clean. However, it will rust up right away, so I'm going to replace them with Stainless Steel.
Last edited by Rochester; 12-04-2010 at 05:43 AM.
10-28-2010, 07:42 PM
#75
I was looking at my engine bay today and realized that I think you missed two bolts.
Two of the front valve cover hold down bolts are pretty visible, but they blend in with the black valve cover.
Might as well do those while you are messing with the rest of the nutz-n-boltz
Two of the front valve cover hold down bolts are pretty visible, but they blend in with the black valve cover.
Might as well do those while you are messing with the rest of the nutz-n-boltz
10-29-2010, 04:52 AM
#77
10-29-2010, 08:14 AM
#78
10-29-2010, 08:40 AM
#79
For example, I went to LOWES and bought some stainless steel M8 hex-head bolts to replace the ones I cleaned up from the hood latch hardware, because not even a week later and they were immediately rusting up again.
And like I said, I would need a quality inch/pound torque wrench, and the bolts with the shoulder issue resolved, and probably a new VC gasket just in case...
...however, at this point in time, I'm kind of burned out on this project and need to take a breather.
10-29-2010, 09:27 AM
#80
I've given consideration to M6 nylon shoulder spacers on 25mm flange-head Ti-bolts. The wire wheel thing works for some stuff, and not for others, depending on whether the bolts are SS or not. If the bolts are not stainless steel underneath the paint or plating (or whatever coating that is), then they rust up immediately.
For example, I went to LOWES and bought some stainless steel M8 hex-head bolts to replace the ones I cleaned up from the hood latch hardware, because not even a week later and they were immediately rusting up again.
And like I said, I would need a quality inch/pound torque wrench, and the bolts with the shoulder issue resolved, and probably a new VC gasket just in case...
...however, at this point in time, I'm kind of burned out on this project and need to take a breather.
For example, I went to LOWES and bought some stainless steel M8 hex-head bolts to replace the ones I cleaned up from the hood latch hardware, because not even a week later and they were immediately rusting up again.
And like I said, I would need a quality inch/pound torque wrench, and the bolts with the shoulder issue resolved, and probably a new VC gasket just in case...
...however, at this point in time, I'm kind of burned out on this project and need to take a breather.
That's why Jim Morrison always said: "The West is The Best".
