Seat Belt Retractor Assembly 2000 I30
 

Does anyone know if there has ever been an issue with the front right and left seat belt retractor assembly? The part numbers are RT 868842Y902 and LT 868852Y902.

The reason I am asking is because I was hit from behind, my car was totaled, and the insurance company for the at fault driver is trying to deduct $282.82 x 2 plus labor, from the money they owe me for my car. They have this listed under "Unrelated Prior Damage". As far as I am concerned the seat belt saved my life and I was never aware of a problem with the seat belt retractor.

Certainly they did not go inside the car and try the seat belts. All I can assume is that they are picking this up from somewhere, like maybe a past recall. Any help will be very much appreciated.

Anovice

All US recalls are public knowledge by law. Just ask the dealership or gov website.

That doesn't make any sense. I've never heard of anything like that. especially when totaling an older car. That's a good chunk of the total value. If they find anything else wrong you'll owe them money. LOL

The only thing I can think of is that the car was in a front end collision in the past and the seat belts weren't replaced. Technically, they're supposed to be replaced after a bad front end wreck.

I would ask for a written detailed explanation of what they're talking about. Once you have that, go over the adjusters head and talk to someone higher up.

It does not make any sense to me either, especially both front seat belts. The car was never in a front end collision.

On the estimate it says:

RESTRAINT SYSTEMS
1. Repl RT Retractor assy to 08/02 beige 868842Y902 1 $282.82 0.9 (labor)
2. Repl LT Retractor assy to 08/02 beige 868852Y902 1 $282.82 0.9 (labor)

I have access to the car. Today I will get in the car, try the seat belts and see if there is a problem with them retracting.

Anovice

Based on Derrick2k2SE's post, I am now seeing where I think the other insurance company is picking this up!

In 2012, I lent my car to a friend. While it's a long story, she had a medication reaction and slightly side swiped a car parked on thre left and then on the right. The history report they ran says:

1. Left front impact with another vehicle (source - State Agency)
2. Right front impact with a parked vehicle (source - State Agency)
3. Right front impact collision (source - Police Report)

Here is the interesting part. Also on the estimate they deducted $93.60 (1.8 hrs @ $52.00 / hr), for two scratches to the right front bumber. Not even a dent. That was the extent of the damages to my car from that incident and I never had the scratches touched up. They should know this because there is no history of repairs.

When I hear back from the other insurance company I certainly will explain this. Does anyone have any other ideas as to how I should handle this?

Thanks much,

Anovice

The US government mandated a different way for the seat belts to work. Starting with the 1998 Nissan cars, the seat belts no longer use an inertia based lock-up mechanism. They use an explosive charge like the airbags do. So during an accident, the small explosive charge will be detonated when the airbag is detonated and the seatbelt must be replaced. However...

This is only supposed to happen when a frontal accident happens. It should not happen in a rear end accident.

Hi Dennis,

As always, thanks for your post.

I need to clear up a misunderstanding. In 2012, a friend borrowed my car and got into an accident. Please see my last post.

However, there was no damage to my car and the impact did not detonate either airbag. Since neither airbag deployed, under what basis could the insurance company take the position that there was a small explosive charge in the seatbelts, the seatbelts were no longer good, and henceforth deducting $282.82 x 2 plus labor from the amount they want to give me six years later, and after their insured hit me in the rear and totaled my car?

They seem to saying that I had inoperable seat belts for the past six years! If so, how could they know this? If I am reading your post correctly, to clear this up, I should be able to tell the insurance company that in 2012 the "impact" was to the left and right front (that's was the history report says from the police report), there was no explosive charge to detonate the seat belts because the airbags did not detonate, and there was no reason to replace the seatbelts.

Am I missing something?

Anovice

The theory of operation is all I know. I have not had to repair a car involved in an accident, so I can't say if reality is different from theory.

There is a crash sensor in the front of the car to detect a crash and send a signal to the airbag controller located on the floor of the car between the front seats. The controller then says to inflate the airbag and lock the seat belts. If the car is equipped with side airbags, then there are crash sensors on both sides of the car to make the side airbags deploy. The airbag controller is different for cars with side airbags versus cars without side airbags.

There is a test for the seatbelts to see if they are good or not. It involves involves removing the belt from the car and then pulling on the belt at a greater than 35º angle. A good belt will lock, a bad belt will not. There is also a "drive the car and stomp on the brakes" test.
See pages 10 and 11 in this link - http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Infiniti/I30/2000/RS.pdf

Are you certain that the deductions the insurance company wants to make are for the seat belts? The "previous damage" category is a catch all and is used for anything and everything. On a similar note, if you replaced something within 30 days of the accident, show them the receipt and they will add that amount to the check.

Hi Dennis,

I appreciate that we can only talk in theory, especially because I do not have access to the car to test the seat belts. I thought that I would have access.

To answer your question, yes, I am certain that the insurance company of the at fault insured driver wants to take deductions
for the seat belts. I have two separate estimates from the other insurance company.

One is for $7,235.40 for the damage in the rear to my 2000 Infiniti I30. The adjuster stopped there and there might also be frame damage. That is how hard the other car slammed into the back of me.

The second one is entitled “Unrelated Prior Damage”. While this specific estimate does not attribute this damage to the accident in 2012, or 6 years to the month, the car history on the other estimate lists the accident in 2012. This “Unrelated Prior Damage” estimate shows:

Restraint Systems

1. Repl RT Retractor assy to 08/02 beige 868842Y902 1 $282.82 0.9
2 Repl LT Retractor assy to 08/02 beige 868852Y902 1 $282.82 0.9
$565.64 1.8hrs

Estimate Totals
Parts $565.64
Body Labor (still trying to figure this out) 1.8 hrs @ $52/ hr 93.60
Subtotal $659.24
Sales Tax $659.24 @ 8.0% 52.74
Total Cost of Repairs $711.98

Even if the insurance company was correct, I can't even remotely grasp the concept of them deducting $711.98 for “Unrelated Damages” for an accident 6 years ago, when their insured just slammed in the back of my car so hard that it caused, at a minimum, $7,235.40 in damages to repair! But that is what they have done and I must address it, at least in theory.

Back to your post. You said:

“There is a crash sensor in the front of the car to detect a crash and send a signal to the airbag controller located on the floor of the car between the front seats. The controller then says to inflate the airbag and lock the seat belts. If the car is equipped with side airbags, then there are crash sensors on both sides of the car to make the side airbags deploy.”

Six years ago was the other accident. The airbags did not inflate (minor accident). Since the controller did not say to inflate the airbag(s), in theory, how could the seat belts lock? In theory, if they locked, how could they have worked for the past six years?

Last but not least, the seat belt saved my life last month when I was hit in the rear, causing $7,235.40 in damages to repair, and necessitating the other insurance company to deem my car a total loss. If the seat belts needed replacing from a minor accident 6 years ago, why did they work last month to save my life?

Anovice

I've been in and around the car business for a while and I've never seen an ins company go over an older totaled car looking for deductions like this. Hell, I could go over almost any car this age and find $1,000 of "needed work".

Are you in a state that requires regular vehicle inspections? If so, it would have recently passed inspection.

I would go over the appraisers head and speak with his supervisor. I would demand proof of the issue and how they tested for it. Also proof that it wasn't caused by this accident. You can probably show that this was the most severe accident the car was ever in. I would also make it very clear that you wont hesitate to drag them into small claims court to fight it. They're not going to waste their time and money fighting over pocket change once they realize you're serious. This is probably some low level appraiser trying to show off how smart he is. Once his boss realizes what's going on he'll probably make it go away.

Hi Derrick2k2SE,

Thanks for your post.

"I've been in and around the car business for a while and I've never seen an ins company go over an older totaled car looking for deductions like this."

Crazy isn't it. Unfortunately, I know nothing about cars, so I am very appreciative of your post.

All I can say is that I have it in front of me. It even lists the Alternative Part Type (Aftermarket,Optional OEM, Reconditioned, Recycled), # of Available Parts, and # Of Parts Selected!

No, the car is registered in a state that does require inspections. But as I look at the insurance companies history report, you bring up an interesting point. I needed to be in Pennsylvania for a few year period. Pennsylvania requires inspection. On the history report it shows the date of 03-22-2013 (after the accident on 09-3-2012), the city in Pennsylvania, "Motor Vehicle Dept", and under "Event Detail" it indicates "Title" and the next line item for the same day (03-22-2013) "Registration Event / Renewal". Then the next line items (two) is for 02-28-2014, showing "Title" and "Registration Event / Renewal" for the state where I returned, which does not require inspections. While it does not specifically say "inspection", I do not think (I do not recall) that I could have changed the title to PA and had the car registered in PA without an inspection. I do not see why I can not point this out to the insurance company.

Regarding your last paragraph, we agree. Tomorrow or Tuesday, I will know what I need to do next.

While this is a bit off topic, I thought I would mention just how difficult this insurance company is making my life. I was hit on August 10th. I was able to get the police report on August 14th. I do not know when the other insurance company obtained the police report, but do know that they did not come out to ajdjust the car un August 31st. They did not present an offer to me until September 12th. I immediately got back to them, emails went back and forth, and on Friday September 14th (the other day), they emailed me that they are only going to pay 1 more day of storage (yesterday).

Anovice

I am having a hard time grasping exactly what you are looking for. There are no magic words that will make them crack open the corporate piggy bank and give you everything inside it. You have to fight them for every penny and some insurance companies are nastier than others. But all of them are in it for themselves.

Your entire thread centers around the seatbelts being called prior damage. Two things here.

The insurance company is saying that the seatbelts are bad. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You don't know. How did the insurance company make this determination? You don't know. Did the insurance company representative know how to test the seatbelts? You don't know. This is the problem you face. As Derrick2k2SE said, what the insurance company is doing is just plain b.s.

Secondly, your response to this seatbelt issue is that the car never had a previous accident to have damaged the seatbelts. That may be true, but it does not matter. Things can and will go bad by themselves. Again, you don't know if the seatbelts are good or bad. As I and others have said, the term "prior damage" is used for anything the insurance company doesn't want to pay for. Do not interpret the words "prior damage" to mean an accident.

I'm sorry that I don't have an answer that will get the insurance company to change their position. All you can do is try to sweet talk them and get them to see your side.

Here's the thing. The insurance co has to make you whole after an incident like this. "Whole" means the value of the property that was lost. For vehicles it's pretty easy to establish the value. They can't just make up a number any more than you can ask for more than it's worth. If they're going to pay less it's up to them to justify, prove and defend that decision in court if necessary.

There's a reason old cars are only worth so much. It's because there's always something that needs work or will soon. If they deducted the retail cost of every scratch, ding, oil leak and squeak there would be no reason for insurance because most older cars would be worth a negative value. If the other side of the car had major damage that would be understandable but minor issues are built into the value. Insurance companies know this and so do the courts. If they're trying to pay less, the burden of proof is on them. If they want to start at "excellent condition" retail value and deduct from there it might be ok but I doubt they're doing that. They're starting at a lower value that already assumes the car isn't 100% perfect.

Find out what condition they're using to determine the value before this deduction.

Also, do you have full coverage insurance on your car? If so, you might be able to get your insurance company involved. I've seen where a persons insurance company will pay for the damage and go after the other driver for what their insurance refused to pay.

There are three compontents to this:

1. The value of my 2000 I30 with 104,000 miles - The "total loss" adjuster told me that they use a company named CCC One and the value is based on comps for "similar cars for sale / recently sold within an approximate 100 mile radius of me. They came up with four comps, however, two of them violated their own criteria. One was a 2001 and the other a 2000, but 218 miles away. Ironically, both of these were lower than than the other two comps that met their criteria. Coincidence? I can not see how we will not come to agreement, unless they violate or change their criteria.

2. "Improvments" or maintenance - In the two months prior to the total loss or 1,500 miles, I had four motor mounts replaced, an upper strut mount and lower control arm. Parts and labor were approximately $1,000. I did not need to change my 4 motor mounts at once, but did so not to have a problem down the road. I do not yet know the insurance companies position on this, but if they are true to form, they will not give me anything. I would be pleased with $500.

3. Deductions - They are taking a $58 "Condition Adjustment". No problem. The problem is the $711.98 deduction. $565.64 for the "Restraint Systems" (see prior post) and $93.60 for "Body Labor" (plus 8% tax on both). Hopefully I will get clarification today.

I do have full coverage on my car and a $500 deductible on collision. However, I opted to go through the other insurance company, so I would not have to wait to get back the $500. At this rate, I will be waiting a lot longer! The other insurance company uses CCC One for valuation and mine uses KBB or NADA (or some combination). Again, CCC One uses market price and this is more favorable, so long as they do not change their critera or play games like they seem to be doing with the $711.98 deduction.

Anovice

I have an update, but handling this is becoming more, not less difficult. I will say and as you will see, I should have read Dennis' post before I came to the conclusions that I did!

One of the problems is that the person who adjusted the car is not the same person who is handling the claim. The clam is being handled out of a different location because the car is a total loss.

I spoke to the field adjuster today (he is no longer involved with the claim) and here is the seatbelt situation. When he went out to adjust the car, he took pictures and the webbing part of the seatbelts was cut out (I did not realize the high demand for woman's bags). The car was towed into the body shop on August 10th (day of the accident) and sat outside the body shop until the adjuster came out on August 31st. Durning that period of time someone got into the car and cut out the webbing of the seatbelts. The full $711.98 deducted was for the seatbelts. Parts and labor. I commented to the field adjuster that it should be obvious by $7,235.40 (plus possibly the frame) of damage to the rear, that I had my seatbelt on, for if not, I probably would not be here today. Also, it is just not logical that I could be driving around without seatbelts. His response was I report what I see.

The claim is now in the hands of a recalcitrant person in the corporate headquarters in Columbus Ohio. Point number three in my prior post should go away, leaving one and two to resolve. And in theory, point one should easily be resolved, that is if this insurance company sticks to their criteria for valuing the car.

This past Friday afternoon, I emailed the person handling the claim two seperate emails addressing the three issues in my prior post. Not hearing back from the him by noon today, I emailed his supervisor at 12:07 PM today with the history and requested he call me. I did not hear back from him this afternoon. There is some information in my two emails on Friday to the claims adjuster that I assume he needs to check into and verify, but I would have thought that he would have the courticy to send me a one sentence email saying it will take him x time before he gets back to me. I would have also thought that the claims manager would have emailed me back saying to the effect it will take him x time and then he will get back to me. Nothing from either one of them.

It surely seems that they are dragging their feet for me to settle on their terms. Again, I was hit by their insured on August 10th. I was able to get the police report on August 14th. I do not know when this insurance company obtained the police report, but do know that they did not come out to adjust the car un August 31st. They did not present an offer to me until September 12th. I immediately got back to them, emails went back and forth, and on Friday September 14th, they emailed me that they are only going to pay 1 more day of storage (Saturday the 15th). Also on Friday, I emailed them twice, including the three points in my prior post.

I am at a loss regarding what to do next. I will wait until Wednesday to see if I hear back from the person handling my claim and the claims manager. If I do not hear back from them, all I can think of is to escalate this matter above the claims manager and/or go to small claims court and ask someone what this entails.

Any thoughts?

Anovice

I would argue that once that car was hit by their insured it became their problem. Anyone can look at the picture and see that it's totaled. If they're paying for the storage and letting it sit there they have to take responsibility for it. They can go after the body shop or file a police report. They own the car. They just haven't paid for it yet. They're the ones in control of what happens to it.

You can also argue that the belts were stolen as a side effect of the accident. You would have never left your car unlocked outside a body shop for weeks if their guy hadn't hit you.

It should be easy to prove the seatbelts were in it. You never filed an insurance claim for them and never filed a police report for the theft. Most people would file a police report if their was broken into and damaged to the tune of $700. You can also provide witnesses who've ridden in your car and remember both of you belting up. Have them write up letters with a statement saying that the car had belts on a very recent date before the accident. Witnesses go a long way and they'll know you can provide them in court.

The whole thing is petty to begin with. The ins co is going to scrap the car for around $0.08 per pound. They'll lose about 4 cents by not having those belts in there.

Tell them you'll go to the scrap yard and pull a set of belts out of a maxima for $20.00 and toss them in the car. That's what I would do if something happened to my belts.

I would still call your insurance company and just see what they say about the whole thing. This is what you pay them for. They may able to give you better advice or step in and handle the whole thing for you with one phone call.

This is insane. I have been in too many accidents compared to the normal person and I have had the car appraised/adjusted within several days every time. Normally a body shop will park/store cars in a fenced in and locked area, not on the street. If the car is truly on the street, how can the body shop charge you storage? The street is public property. They better be turning that storage fee over to the city. If the car is driveable, drive it home.

I disagree with Derrick2K2SE about who owns the car. Until Anovice signs paperwork that transfers ownership, he still owns the car. Money has nothing to do with it.

But the process the insurance company is using is the standard process. The guy that does the appraising just strictly does appraising. His report than goes to the adjusters and he is done. He may not even be an employee of the insurance company. A small insurance company will contract with an independent appraisal company rather than maintain an employee in every city they do business in.

I like Derrick2K2SE's idea of getting people that have ridden in your car prior to the accident to write a letter saying the seatbelts were ok. You could also talk to a lawyer about this. You get one hour free consultation in most states. I seriously doubt they would want to take on the case, but they will tell you what the laws are.

Obviously this is correct. I was more referring to the fact that they were in control of what was happening to the car while they were preparing to "buy" it. Anovice had no part in the car being towed and left at a body shop. Had their insured not hit him the damage to the seatbelts would never have happened.

Hi Derrick2K2SE and Dennis,

Thanks for your posts.

Derrick2K2SE, this is more than insane! I am no lawyer, but I would have to agree with Dennis that I am still the owner of the vehicle, for if not, the insurance company would see this as their liability and not drag their feet in getting this claim settled. On the other hand, they have been paying for storage, at least up to their email of September 14th, stating "we cannot pay for storage after 09/15/2018".

Derrick2K2SE, the truth is the truth. The car has been sitting, first in the open yard of the body shop facing the city street and then on the street, from August 10th when the car was towed in, including August 31, when the adjuster came out to adjust the car (it is on the city street now). The owner of the body shop acknowledges this.

Update: I just spoke with the local adjuster, who spoke with the auto body shop, who told him that when the car was towed in, the seat belts were intact. He said that he will note the file. Now I need to follow-up with their corporate total loss person to make certain that he adds back the $711.98. Dennis, by the way, this is a huge insurance company who has a slogan "...is on your side". They employ all their adjusters.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks!

Anovice

this is insane, almost sounds like healthcare issues.

and Dennis I am continuously amazed with your knowledge. Great info in here.

My 2 cents, protect your self and get your own insurance involved if you have to, dont settle for anything untill you are happy, these are big corporations that like running over small people including their own customers. they are in the insurance business. its business to them, so get to work or even get help (advise, letters, etc) from your own insurance to fight for what you deserve.

there are a lot of shotty details in this story, and sadly it sounds like even the shop isn't trust worthy. Good luck , keep us posted

That's good news that the body shop is saying the belts were in there. That pretty much settles that issue. I would keep pressing the issue with the Total Loss Dept till they pay the claim. Keep reminding them that it's been over a month on a very small simple claim.

I would call the body shop and see how long you can keep the car there until they start charging you. They don't have to charge you and they've already made over $300 for for a parking space. If they do want to charge you that's fine. Just wait till you get paid off and tell them to stuff it. They can go after the ins co if they want more money. The Ins co CAN pay for storage as long as they want. What's the body shop going to do? Sue you for $100.00? Keep the car that's not going to be yours any more? They've got nothing.

Does the insurance co have you in a rental car? That's usually standard if your car isn't roadworthy.

i was wondering the same, great info Derrick as well. always get you and Dennis mixed up because your both OG and very knowledgeable =)

Update:

After a painful week and working my way up their corporate latter, I think I will make settlement today!

1. The $711.98 for the seatbelts has been added back.
2. They have removed two lower comparables (they were using four) that was dragging the average down.
3. I will only get back between $125 and $175 for the motor mounts. That hurts, but I need to look at the complete package.

The final total number will be between $4,700 - $4,800. Going for me was that I did my homework and was able to find two comparables (recent sales or for sale) to support my claim. Also going for me is they did not use KBB or NADA. The fact that my car had low mileage and was in good condition, unfortunately meant nothing. It was almost 19 years old.

Derrick - storage. Where I am it is over $50 per day for the parking spot on the city street! I assume they will make a deal with the body shop, but regardless, the insurance company will pay a hefty amount. I knew this and stayed patient. I did not take the rental car because where I live parking is a bigger problem than the benefit of the rental car. In the end, all I left to fight about was more for the motor mounts, and I did not want to run the risk of them retracting their offer. Plus, I am tired.

Dennis and Derrick, what can I say. Thank you very much!

Any questions?

Anovice

You have my sympathy, unfortunately I have been in your shoes. When my 94 Maxima was totalled, the insurance company used local (to their office) sales to establish value. Boy, did they use junk cars. Insurance companies have lots of dirty tricks.

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your post.

Yes, a tough week. I learned that the rules for establishing the value for a total loss differ from state to state, but in the end, all the rules are written by the insurance companies, for the insurance companies. If I were not on my toes (thanks to you and Derrick), I would have walked away with $2,696. By listening and doing my homework, I will walk away with $4,860, which is above the fair market value per KBB and NADA. I did close to the best I could.

Somewhere in the house, I still have the owner's manual and the Infiniti customer Care & Lemon Law Information booklet; in the nice Infiniti leather holder. Just throw it out?

Next week I will start thinking about getting a vehicle. Possibly a 2014 - 2017 SUV, the brand and model that I can afford. I have no specific needs and it sounds good to try something different. Never had an SUV before. Possibly a 2015 or 2016 Acura RDX and if that cost too much, I will look at a 2015 or 2016 Honda CR-V. I am really not that particular. However, I will stay with a Japanese brand. If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them. I am now in the Northeast, but I do not want to purchase a used vehicle here. So many have rust issues, even the ones a few years old. I have relatives in Florida and might look there. Possibly higher mileage cars, but mostly highway.

Dennis, I assume a lot of the used cars in the Dallas - Fort Worth Metroplex also may have higher mileage, but I would think mostly highway as well. In that regard, my best friends live in Mansfield, so it would be easy for me to fly to DFW, buy a vehicle, and drive back. If you have any contacts or ideas, please send me a private message.

Anovice

Unfortunately I don't have any contacts for buying a car. I no longer drive Nissan products mainly because of the CVT transmission they started using approx 2005. I now have 2 Lexus vehicles, a IS model that the wife drives and a RX SUV that I drive. Their transmissions still have gears.

great to hear Anovice !