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How hard were the cam signal plate lock nuts to break loose? My Allen wrench keeps breaking loose before the lock nut does, and I'm afraid to keep trying I really don't wanna strip these
How hard were the cam signal plate lock nuts to break loose? My Allen wrench keeps breaking loose before the lock nut does, and I'm afraid to keep trying I really don't wanna strip these
They're no joke. They are pretty tight. Be careful. Looks like you need a bit more length on yours. Get that allen wrench into the fastener as far as you can for as much contact area as possible. I inserted my allen key then used big channelox on the long axis of the allen wrench for leverage. Worked like a charm in one clean break. The challenge is getting them aligned properly when reinstalling them. They tend to want to turn while torquing down with the loctite as a lubricant. Despite my concern of a discrepancy between the banks, NDSII shows both banks at the same angle with approximately +/- .02 degrees while running which is damn good if I may say so myself
They're no joke. They are pretty tight. Be careful. Looks like you need a bit more length on yours. Get that allen wrench into the fastener as far as you can for as much contact area as possible. I inserted my allen key then used big channelox on the long axis of the allen wrench for leverage. Worked like a charm in one clean break. The challenge is getting them aligned properly when reinstalling them. They tend to want to turn while torquing down with the loctite as a lubricant. Despite my concern of a discrepancy between the banks, NDSII shows both banks at the same angle with approximately +/- .02 degrees while running which is damn good if I may say so myself
+1
it really is on there tight af. Like user1 said youll want just a tad more length to your allen key, that tiniest bit of curve is whats making it not bite. Went through the same ordeal as you are, i just sacraficed another key and gave it as much length as possible without it touching the side of the head. Definitely be careful of the teeth alignment like user1 pointed out, it took me several attempts of tightening and loosening and retightening to get it torqued down without the plate spinning slightly out of proper position. Your best bet might be to let the loctite dry first, otherwise you just gotta muck with it a little.
You have to grind it where it hits the head or you'll never get it in correctly. Grind out about half of the thickness, then you can fully insert it without ruining it like in the pic.
You have to grind it where it hits the head or you'll never get it in correctly. Grind out about half of the thickness, then you can fully insert it without ruining it like in the pic.
I already got it. The nut is actually for an 8mm Allen wrench not 5/16 like I said in my previous post. I left a little more length on it too as you can see in the second picture. On the first one I cut it down to 3/8 from the inner edge of the long arm, and even that was short.
In summary, 5/16 wrench should actually be 8mm and the length may be different depending on your wrench but I think 3/8 is too short in any scenario unless your wrench has no curveture or you're measuring from the end of the curveture.
Good deal. Start a thread in the 4th gen section. It will be interesting to see fitment. I would suggest taking some measurements of new motor with ps pump bolted on and compare with your gen4 motor for frame clearance. I think you're on the right track with your swap though. Now that the work has been done and we know, there is no way I would retrofit old accessories for a 7th gen swap. All 7th gen stuff is the way to go. No old funky tensioners, only one easily changeable belt with an autotensioner, compressors and alternators are cheap enough, it's just the way to go. The only necessary fabrications being to have your power steering hose connections retrofitted and the AC line set fitted, both of which can easily be done at a good hydraulic hose shop and cheaper than buying new hoses for everything. Just bring him your hose connections and tell him what you need and where you need them to go and boom, done. Everything you need to know for motor prep is included in this thread though, from the type of ps pump hose connection, to the passenger side engine mount modification.
Will you be the first 4.7 ?
Also, what is required for engine control? You using a 5th gen ECU?
Good deal. Start a thread in the 4th gen section. It will be interesting to see fitment. I would suggest taking some measurements of new motor with ps pump bolted on and compare with your gen4 motor for frame clearance. I think you're on the right track with your swap though. Now that the work has been done and we know, there is no way I would retrofit old accessories for a 7th gen swap. All 7th gen stuff is the way to go. No old funky tensioners, only one easily changeable belt with an autotensioner, compressors and alternators are cheap enough, it's just the way to go. The only necessary fabrications being to have your power steering hose connections retrofitted and the AC line set fitted, both of which can easily be done at a good hydraulic hose shop and cheaper than buying new hoses for everything. Just bring him your hose connections and tell him what you need and where you need them to go and boom, done. Everything you need to know for motor prep is included in this thread though, from the type of ps pump hose connection, to the passenger side engine mount modification.
Will you be the first 4.7 ?
Also, what is required for engine control? You using a 5th gen ECU?
Cost. It's hard to find complete engines and they're usually going to be expensive. You can grab just the engine for 500 bucks and use your old accessories. Work required is very minimal.
The cars aren't worth anything. If you're going overkill, then you might as well just buy an HR g35.
Good deal. Start a thread in the 4th gen section. It will be interesting to see fitment. I would suggest taking some measurements of new motor with ps pump bolted on and compare with your gen4 motor for frame clearance. I think you're on the right track with your swap though. Now that the work has been done and we know, there is no way I would retrofit old accessories for a 7th gen swap. All 7th gen stuff is the way to go. No old funky tensioners, only one easily changeable belt with an autotensioner, compressors and alternators are cheap enough, it's just the way to go. The only necessary fabrications being to have your power steering hose connections retrofitted and the AC line set fitted, both of which can easily be done at a good hydraulic hose shop and cheaper than buying new hoses for everything. Just bring him your hose connections and tell him what you need and where you need them to go and boom, done. Everything you need to know for motor prep is included in this thread though, from the type of ps pump hose connection, to the passenger side engine mount modification.
Will you be the first 4.7 ?
Also, what is required for engine control? You using a 5th gen ECU?
Old motor is gone. I'll be putting this one in tomorrow or saturday and I'll see where I'm at with fitment. The 4th gen power steering hose fits the 7th gen pump. I don't think any mods will be necessary for the compressor either. As for engine control I'm doing a full wiring swap, 03 ECU and harness, a few connectors from the 03 dash harness(~20wires need manually wired but eng92 made a diagram), NATs, E-Gas pedal, and an I35 gauge cluster (like it better than the 03 maxi), and the 03 timing ring needs cut off the flywheel and welded onto the 4th gen flywheel with 3/8 space between em so the crank sensor reads
I heard of someone else working on one but no I don't think it's been done yet. I should be done before middle of next week Ive been dragging my butt and I've planned on a thread I'll probably start tomorrow before I drop the motor in
Cost. It's hard to find complete engines and they're usually going to be expensive. You can grab just the engine for 500 bucks and use your old accessories. Work required is very minimal.
The cars aren't worth anything. If you're going overkill, then you might as well just buy an HR g35.
I hear ya. Subject to each individual's situation and circumstances. For me, if I'm going to do all that work, 7th gen only. I don't want to chase issues with old parts crapping out every 3mo. Let's check back in a year and I'll have a full report of how many problems I DIDN'T have (sans my stupid coolant leak).
Old motor is gone. I'll be putting this one in tomorrow or saturday and I'll see where I'm at with fitment. The 4th gen power steering hose fits the 7th gen pump. I don't think any mods will be necessary for the compressor either. As for engine control I'm doing a full wiring swap, 03 ECU and harness, a few connectors from the 03 dash harness(~20wires need manually wired but eng92 made a diagram), NATs, E-Gas pedal, and an I35 gauge cluster (like it better than the 03 maxi), and the 03 timing ring needs cut off the flywheel and welded onto the 4th gen flywheel with 3/8 space between em so the crank sensor reads
I heard of someone else working on one but no I don't think it's been done yet. I should be done before middle of next week Ive been dragging my butt and I've planned on a thread I'll probably start tomorrow before I drop the motor in
Old motor is gone. I'll be putting this one in tomorrow or saturday and I'll see where I'm at with fitment. The 4th gen power steering hose fits the 7th gen pump. I don't think any mods will be necessary for the compressor either. As for engine control I'm doing a full wiring swap, 03 ECU and harness, a few connectors from the 03 dash harness(~20wires need manually wired but eng92 made a diagram), NATs, E-Gas pedal, and an I35 gauge cluster (like it better than the 03 maxi), and the 03 timing ring needs cut off the flywheel and welded onto the 4th gen flywheel with 3/8 space between em so the crank sensor reads
I heard of someone else working on one but no I don't think it's been done yet. I should be done before middle of next week Ive been dragging my butt and I've planned on a thread I'll probably start tomorrow before I drop the motor in
its been done, someone ive done business with off the forum had a 4th gen with an HR motor, ive seen it in person. No idea if he was using 7th gen components though, not something i was paying attention to at the time. If only i possessed the skill/knowledge i have now back when i had my 96’, id love to have an ultra sleeper 4th gen.
definitely make a thread for this in any case, im interested in following the progress!
its been done, someone ive done business with off the forum had a 4th gen with an HR motor, ive seen it in person. No idea if he was using 7th gen components though, not something i was paying attention to at the time. If only i possessed the skill/knowledge i have now back when i had my 96’, id love to have an ultra sleeper 4th gen.
definitely make a thread for this in any case, im interested in following the progress!
Sorry there are 3-4 members that have this motor in their 4th gen but still have 4th gen ECU and accessories. schmellyfart and 95nasta are the 2 I could name off the top of my head I cant recall the other peoples names
did the AC compressor or power steering pump require any rewiring or do they plug into the 03 harness?
Sorry there are 3-4 members that have this motor in their 4th gen but still have 4th gen ECU and accessories. schmellyfart and 95nasta are the 2 I could name off the top of my head I cant recall the other peoples names
did the AC compressor or power steering pump require any rewiring or do they plug into the 03 harness?
No wiring for PS pump, 7th gen compressor is a two lead vs 5th gen single lead, so I just soldered the power connector from my old 5th gen compressor to the new one and chassis grounded the negative lead.
Yep, that's a brand new OEM passenger axle seal. Not sure WTF is going on here.
Profuse leakage. Did I hammer in the axle seal too far? At least it wasn't my half-moon or RMS as I originally suspected. I've already done those twice. I'd let the damn things leak forever at this point.
Brand new axle seal!!!! How does this happen? The new seal looked the same as the old one. Wrong seal? Incorrectly installed? This is passenger side. Driver side is perfect! I just don't understand. Happened just now. Noticed tranny fluid barely registering on the dipstick. Ran to Walmart, grabbed a gallon, went home, filled it up and as soon as I pulled out of the driveway to run it through the gears I noticed that huge puddle of fluid on the driveway. WHY??????
The driver and passenger seals are different sizes. Other than that, maybe something got nicked when you were installing? I think all you can really do is reinstall another seal and see what happens.
The driver and passenger seals are different sizes. Other than that, maybe something got nicked when you were installing? I think all you can really do is reinstall another seal and see what happens.
Indeed they are. I made sure to order and install the correct seal for each side. I'm just as perplexed as you guys. This was probably my fault. I think I may have hammered it in too far. I'll have a post mortem report on the seal tomorrow when I replace it.
Anyone have an opinion regarding both bank alpha values? As you will notice, we are still warming up. Snapped this screen today after I cleaned my MAF. Thanks!
From what I understand, they have something to do with your closed loop fuel maps, which is only active at low load. I wouldnt pay them much mind since theres nothing you can do about them, unless youre tuning, and even then you would be dealing more with high load since thats where the power is made. Might want to wait for someone who actually knows wtf theyre talking about to chime in though lol
Narrow band stuff. I don't intend to change anything. More specifically I suppose, I'm asking if they are within normal limits given the current conditions. I replaced both precat O2 sensors with new OEM. Wanna make sure they are accurate. Probably not going to get much of a response but like you, I'm getting more interested in this area as well.
Narrow band stuff. I don't intend to change anything. More specifically I suppose, I'm asking if they are within normal limits given the current conditions. I replaced both precat O2 sensors with new OEM. Wanna make sure they are accurate. Probably not going to get much of a response but like you, I'm getting more interested in this area as well.
According to NDS2's manual, youre seeing the short term fuel trims. This is basically your primary o2 sensors measuring how much fuel to add or pull in 'real time'. There are also long term fuel trims, which is basically the same except these are what your ecu 'learns' over a long period of time. The short term trims get wiped every time you shut the car off, and the long term trims remain until you reset the ecu. Based on my fuzzy knowledge of tuning with VAFC2 back in the day, your ecu will run on an interpolation of the long term and short term fuel trims while in closed loop - again closed loop is basically when you are gently cruising, not when you are actually putting stress on the motor, so its not really that critical as compared to open loop where your MAF signal runs the show. The manual also goes on to state that "a well tuned motor" will pull fuel rather than adding it, which makes perfect sense, as a tune running rich is always preferable to one running lean - anything under 100 is pulling fuel, anything above is adding fuel.
In short, dont worry about it lol, theyre pretty much precisely where they should be.
I knew you would say that! I'm not even going to go there! Because not race car
Im gonna go ahead and join the dogpile lol. Why did you detune to 14 degrees? Stock base timing is 15, and if you are using 93 octane like the manual calls for (you better be!) you can run 17degree base timing with absolutely zero negative effects on the motor. It wont wear the motor out or something, its engineered straight from the factory to run at 17degrees, the only reason they come stock at 15 degrees is because Nissan is very well aware that the average american client is a cheap mongrel who doesnt read the user manual and puts crappy gas into their cars to save money - theyd rather allow that behavior than force the car to require 93 octane because they dont want to deal with people btching to them about why their car is running like crap despite it being entirely their fault. That being said, i could see keeping it at 15 degrees... but why 14? Just curious on the logic, all that work to get a nice shiny HR motor in your car only to detune it lol.
Im gonna go ahead and join the dogpile lol. Why did you detune to 14 degrees? Stock base timing is 15, and if you are using 93 octane like the manual calls for (you better be!) you can run 17degree base timing with absolutely zero negative effects on the motor. It wont wear the motor out or something, its engineered straight from the factory to run at 17degrees, the only reason they come stock at 15 degrees is because Nissan is very well aware that the average american client is a cheap mongrel who doesnt read the user manual and puts crappy gas into their cars to save money - theyd rather allow that behavior than force the car to require 93 octane because they dont want to deal with people btching to them about why their car is running like crap despite it being entirely their fault. That being said, i could see keeping it at 15 degrees... but why 14? Just curious on the logic, all that work to get a nice shiny HR motor in your car only to detune it lol.
Some of the ECUs are tarded and drop down to 14. But you can bump it up to 17 like normal with car gauge pro.
Just cause it is running at 14 degrees at that moment doesn't mean it's been detuned. The ECU uses ignition timing to control idle speed, so timing fluctuates at idle to meet the target RPM. Based on the screenshot the car wasn't close to normal operating temperature and was targeting 950ish RPM.
My car is advanced 2 degrees and will often run as little as 10-12 degrees of advance at idle
Im gonna go ahead and join the dogpile lol. Why did you detune to 14 degrees? Stock base timing is 15, and if you are using 93 octane like the manual calls for (you better be!) you can run 17degree base timing with absolutely zero negative effects on the motor. It wont wear the motor out or something, its engineered straight from the factory to run at 17degrees, the only reason they come stock at 15 degrees is because Nissan is very well aware that the average american client is a cheap mongrel who doesnt read the user manual and puts crappy gas into their cars to save money - theyd rather allow that behavior than force the car to require 93 octane because they dont want to deal with people btching to them about why their car is running like crap despite it being entirely their fault. That being said, i could see keeping it at 15 degrees... but why 14? Just curious on the logic, all that work to get a nice shiny HR motor in your car only to detune it lol.
I haven't even touched the timing! The only thing I've adjusted is the idle, I increased it 100rpm. The timing actually bumps itself up to 15 after it warms up if I remember correctly. We were only at 130 temp in that screenshot.
Since we're there now, may as well say thanks for the info. Eventually I was going to ask, but wasn't ready to go there yet. I don't care how many threads there are on it. Old threads are 90% nonsense anecdotes (that are irrelevant to the subject 50% of the time) and banter, 10% hard data/reliable info and experience. I do targeted research or direct inquiry. I don't have time to waste doing a "search". I know a little, but not enough to jack with it a whole lot. Been discussing it with my Toyota tech friend who actually does know his stuff, and we agreed that there just isn't a meaningful enough of a reason to mess with it for my application. There's just nothing to be gained from it. This is a last forever, go 200k with no problems and dedicated routine maintenance, reliable (getting there anyway) grocery getter daily. But if ya'll say 17 is safe then why the hell not.
Add: I use and will continue to use only 93, Slam. And as you know, I am running brand new OEM knock with new OEM sub harness. Haven't plugged the knock bypass in yet.
Just cause it is running at 14 degrees at that moment doesn't mean it's been detuned. The ECU uses ignition timing to control idle speed, so timing fluctuates at idle to meet the target RPM. Based on the screenshot the car wasn't close to normal operating temperature and was targeting 950ish RPM.
My car is advanced 2 degrees and will often run as little as 10-12 degrees of advance at idle
I haven't ever seen it that low O_O. On a previous car I did have one idle at 14, but all the others were 15 (and of course 17 after bumped).
Welp, not sure how this got past me, but the problem is rather obvious. Old (new OEM as of 1kmi ago) seal on right, new seal on left.
Here is where I have an issue: I still have the bag in which old seal came from Nissan a month ago. On this bag is the same part number that is on the bag in the photo that I picked up today. Shame on me for assuming the part would be correct and not test-fitting it before I installed it when the tranny was on the floor a month ago. Now, I'm not 100% certain at this point this is what happened, but I can only presume, based on the fact that everything else with this project is 100%, 5 by 5, good to go, by the book, solid work, and then a stupid 9 dollar seal was mis-installed? Really? So, can't really blame Nissan, but I SWEAR TO GOD I installed the seal that came out of the bag with the correct part number the first time!!!!
So, what does this mean? I have not had a sealed tranny for the last 1200mi. Shifts were fine up until about a week ago then the 1-2 shift gradually turned into a slingshot. I kept an eye on fluid and topped it off first 3 weeks as I knew I had a drip. The last two weeks I probably wasn't as diligent at keeping an eye on fluid as I really had no reason to unless it became symptomatic, which it did, and hence here we are today. Have I cooked my tranny?
The saddest part is, I ruined this new seal trying to get it in today and Nissan won't have another one in til Saturday. FML. Getting it installed while tranny is in the car is going to need a different approach. Anyone have a favorite tool? I'm thinking a socket the same diameter as the OD of the seal pounded in through the carrier bearing from the wheel well. I used a 1x2 furring strip today and positioned it from underneath while a friend pounded on it from the outside. That didn't work so well lol.
Last edited by User1; 02-21-2019 at 07:47 PM.
Reason: sp
I haven't ever seen it that low O_O. On a previous car I did have one idle at 14, but all the others were 15 (and of course 17 after bumped).
I'll bump it up to 17 after I get this effing seal in and get it back on the road. I'll let it get to operating temp and snap a few screens as I go through the adjustment.
Sounds like the gremlins had a run on you lol, theyre responsible for all sorts of unnatural horrors such as making that wrench you just put down disappear for 5 minutes only to show up again in plain sight, stealing all your 10mm sockets, etc. Tricky little bastrds.
I dont really know anything about auto trans, but i do know that the fluid should be nice and clean looking and shouldnt smell like its burnt. Id imagine you put some wear and tear on it but if its not showing any symptoms of being messed up i wouldnt pull your hair out over it. As for installing the seal, i took it to home depot and found a cheap pipe fitting that had close to the same diameter and used that as a race to hammer it in. The one i used actually ended up exploding into a million pieces because it was pvc but it got the seal seated enough to allow me to use a piece of wood and a hammer to send it the rest of the way nice and straight.
For the knock sensor resistor bypass - im going to go ahead and recomend against it, especially if your knock sensor is currently working. Yes, the resistor works great and i have no issues with it - but now that im looking to dabble with tuning, im finding that its 110% crucial to have knock detection. For a stock setup that you *know* is healthy because you stay ontop of it, its a good option for those who are too lazy to pull the lower intake manifold to replace the sensor. But if your sensor works or you plan on doing more extensive mods, just keep the sensor. Im really kicking myself for being lazy and doing the resistor lol, obviously not a big deal but just ironic how it only created more work for myself.
Welp, don't believe me when I swear, I guess. Double checked my parts bin and found the first seal that I bought that was supposed to go in the first time. 100% my fault! Not sure how I screwed this up, but there ya go. I had two driver side axle seals installed! Replaced it this evening after I woke up and all went together well.
The tool. That's a two and a half foot or so piece of schedule 40 1.5" with a coupling on one end and a cap on the other. Coupling was the perfect diameter for the seal. Hammered it in myself through the carrier bearing bracket. I did remove the strut for ease of access. Pipe remained intact and did not shatter into a million pieces.
For the knock sensor resistor bypass - im going to go ahead and recomend against it, especially if your knock sensor is currently working. Yes, the resistor works great and i have no issues with it - but now that im looking to dabble with tuning, im finding that its 110% crucial to have knock detection. For a stock setup that you *know* is healthy because you stay ontop of it, its a good option for those who are too lazy to pull the lower intake manifold to replace the sensor. But if your sensor works or you plan on doing more extensive mods, just keep the sensor. Im really kicking myself for being lazy and doing the resistor lol, obviously not a big deal but just ironic how it only created more work for myself.
The bypass was just something to play with. I haven't used it yet but I'll throw it in for fun one of these days or someday when I get the chance to visit Tampa's 1/8 mile speedway for test and tune night. I'll definitely be running the knock sensor for commuting.
Sorry there are 3-4 members that have this motor in their 4th gen but still have 4th gen ECU and accessories. schmellyfart and 95nasta are the 2 I could name off the top of my head I cant recall the other peoples names
did the AC compressor or power steering pump require any rewiring or do they plug into the 03 harness?
Flywheel and clutch on, 4th gen oil pans on, went to put on the pulleys and the compressor holes are off by half an inch. I don't have the AC bracket on the 4th gen oil pan.
so I've decided to make another little two bolt bracket like the bottom to go from the yellow hole to the other mounting point on the compressor(bottom right)
Replaced a power steering hardline I'd broken, gonna clean the rest of the engine bay and put new mounts on the crossmember. I'm gonna go start a thread now that I'm actually making progress
Are the 7th gen accessories "better" than 5th gens? Or are you doing it more for the challenge of doing it and being the 1st?
Originally Posted by Child_uv_KoRn
What in the power robbing, ugly as sin, rusted hell is that hunk of **** you bolted to the engine?
My exact thoughts haha.
Need to get you some nice cattman's or altima headers.......even 4th gen fed specs........anything besides that piece of junk.....and ditch those pre-cats!
I lol'd about those pass/trans black rubber things.....I never understood what those are for either.
I'd suggest going with poly mounts for all four. Oem are REALLY soft and your engine is going to move quite a bit. For reference, the ES motor mount bushings are 85A hardness rating. I have them on both my 5th gens (along w poly mounts for pass/trans) and I never notice they are there anymore, the "extra" vibration isn't even noticeable. I'd suggest those ES mounts for your engine mounts. And if you're really worried about extra vibration you can buy poly filler at difference hardness level for the pass/trans. Go with something like 60A.
Edit: I wrote these comments as I read through, so looks like you're already driving it. Not that you couldn't swap them out though.
02-13-2019, 09:43 PM
