jtjohns

Well......After reading this post I thought it was the tensioners that were defective, but the dealership tells me now that something is wrong with my timing chains and they are completely replacing my engine.

It sucks to have my car in the shop this long, especially when I just bought it not long ago. On the bright side, I'm getting a brand new engine, so basically a brand new ride !!

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

What exactly is wrong with the motor now? Your getting your engine replaced for a timing chain noise? Makes no sense.

esmooth

I had this engine whine problem with my Max at about 34,000 miles. Thanks to the fine people on this forum, I was able to identify it myself and I printed out the tsb and took it to the dealer. I gave it to my service advisor (great guy btw) and told him that this is what I thought it was, but they are the experts. They had my car for about 5 days, but in fairness I had some other things done to it as well and they gave me a dealer car. He said it was a big job replacing those tensioners. I'm at 46,000 miles now and no whine.

Proceedbob

I concur, why would they replace the engine for a chain tensioner, yes it's a big job to repair but.... If my dealer suggested that I would head for the door because they're not qualified to work on it IMHO.

-Sin-

Repair service revenue.....

jtjohns

Yeah, you read it right. I was told something was wrong with my timing chains. Replacing the engine doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, but like I said before, I got a brand new engine out of it and I'm only paying $50.

I just came from the dealership and I will have the car back this evening.

Proceedbob

And did you drive the car there or was it not running and towed? I could see if a chain broke and pistons hit valves, replacement would probably be more economical. Dealers are required to get written approval from Nissan on any repairs over a certain dollar amount ($3500.00 I believe) and this would usually trigger a visit from the regional rep. I'm not implying this didn't happen I'm just trying to justify it, or how they did.

jtjohns

Yes, I drove it there and I thought it drove fine aside from the whistling noise. I'm not really sure what procedure they went through before putting the new engine in. Although, they could have had a regional rep; it has been there since last Friday.

They gave me an altima to drive until I get my car back and I was suprised big time because the altima seems to have more acceleration than my max. I know this is not supposed to be the case when comparing a 2.5L to a 3.5L of the same make. So there could have been some other faulty things with that engine that I just didn't notice because I was used to driving it.

jtjohns

Well, that's a no go....Just got a call and I won't get my car till Monday!!

brio_max

iTrader: (9)

It's hard to believe that they gave you a new engine just because of the bad tensioners. Did you have also other problems like oil consumption or so?

jtjohns

No, not any other problems that I'm aware of. It's getting frustrating though. I haven't had my car since last Friday!!

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

He didn't say for sure that he's gettin a new motor due to faulty tensioners, all he said was he that he was told he's gettin a new motor for some chain issue but didn't specify. And thats why we're wondering why he'd get a motor for just tensioner noise.

Maybe you could ask your service advisor to describe in detail why they're doing this?

Talon05

i have the same noise, the dealership said there isnt a recall

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

...and they're right. there isn't a recall for them. there's a technical bulletin addressing the issue though.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

OK so I did this job today at work on a 2005 Frontier with 58K miles and thought i'd snap a few pics for you guys.

Here is what the bad tensioner guide looks like compared to a new one, notice how the guide has worn down to the metal piston thus causing the whine/buzzing sound.

-Sin-

So are tensioners regular maintance items? At 58K it seems like low miles to have to do that. My 98 went to 130K and never had tensioner problems. It's still running to date at close to 200K and still no tensioner problems (sold it to a friend).

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Nope, not a maintenance item. For some reason , these tensioners are failing prematurely prob due to the materials and design, as you can tel the new ones look different. Prob some design change they did to cut costs or something, maybe turnin out to not be such a good idea. Only seems to be on the 04+.

cfr94

TURBIZZY.....Excellent pics and good information. It's good to have 'technicians' that actually care about other people and their problems. I was also thinking that the sound could be coming from a worn MM (Motor Mount). Think about it, all the 'whining' is coming from the chain (passenger) side of the vehicle. If the MM is broken or worn, it puts the 'engine' at an angle it wasn't designed to be so with that being said, if you accelerate the tension of the chain pulls on that 'angle' of the engine due to a worn MM.

I am no expert, but thinking about it and reading about it, it might make some sense. Any objections???

04MAX_ILLIN

iTrader: (3)

Only reason i disagree is bc these parts are internal so even if you turn the motor upside down the tension on that chain should be the same, no??

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much bro, these parts are internal so engine mounts really won't make a difference. The chain tensioners are hydraulic and use engine oil pressure to push out against the chains and take up the slack so it doesn't really matter.

A worn out/broken mount would cause more of a vibration felt inside the car if it was really bad. Otherwise if the mounts are just cracked or barely broken all you would feel is a hard thud when you gas it kinda hard from a stop as the motor rocks sideways.

I just realized how crappy those pics are, i shoulda wiped my lense on my phone. Ill try to get better pics but i hope you guys get the picture.

04MAX_ILLIN

iTrader: (3)

We get the picture alright lol..change our tensioners before our cars sound like crap and the timing chain come or break and then our motos = blown up. Or at least these are my thoughts, and intentions. I beleive strongly in preventive maintenance as i work as a supervisor at a private sanitation co. and see the neglect that our trucks get sometimes and all it does is cause big problems later on.
Thanks for the pics by the way. Now i can actually put a picture to this whole scenario and it all makes perfect sense.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Well if your already out of powertrain 5/60 warranty and you haven't heard it i don't see why replace them if they sound ok.

Just to put some of you at ease, today i worked on a 2005 Pathfinder with 55k miles with a really loud whistling sound from the oil filter. After closer inspecting i found the oil filter happened to be the ORIGINAL factory filter. I was able to confirm this because the part number on the filter was 15208-31U00 and those are only used at the factory. As a replacement, we use 15208-9E000 for trucks, older V6s and 4 bangers and 15208-65F0C for FWD V6s. You can't even buy a 31U00 so this alone was evidence enough the customer had never changed his oil. Also his dip stick was dry with varnish. Sold him a oil change and zero timing chain noises-go figure. Never had the chains done either.

Just goes to show you these tensioners are just soo random i have no idea why.

reb

"Sold him a oil change"

Thats the issue most here have with dealerships. You guys always think in terms of "selling" instead of serving.

Proceedbob

It sounds like the person needed to be sold some common sense to boot, a service department using the term "sold" is just occupational slang used internally, most trades have similar habits. Would you prefer that they gave the service away? The service adviser is there to facilitate warranty service and also to "advise" you as how to best keep your vehicle running at it's best, you may decline at your will suggested services. As hard as this is to believe they make their money from selling services in order to keep the lights on and make payroll.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Exactly bro, don't get all defensive about it, im one of the good guys and i do care about my customers. Your not understanding the whole issue with that truck, it had 50 somethin THOUSAND miles and have NEVER had an oil change... am i supposed to just change the filter and replace the little oil he had just for the hell of it? No! It is the customer's job to keep up on their maintenances and oil changes are maintenances last i checked. When I say "I sold him an oil change" that means i called the customer and spoke to him directly and told him something along the lines of, "Mr. X, i think the noise may be comming from your oil filter, it looks pretty old and might be time to be changing that soon yada yada..." and he said, "Oh, right i've been meaning to get that done soon, go ahead and do the oil change." And I said, "sure thing, and if the noise is still there, i will gladly recheck other stuff and keep you updated".

I know we get a bad reputation but honestly i'd much rather have a factory trained dealer tech than joe the mechanic who wrenches on 10 different car lines a day and is quick to sell me the wrong part on a "guess". At least if we have to "guess" and its wrong, you don't have to come out of pocket, it was our mistake.

Proceedbob

What he said.

edjose17

Is there a way to check those secondary tensioners without dissasembly the whole cover?
Can the IVT control valve cover be removed to verify those secondary tensioners and determine their wear?

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

that's EXACTLY how my secondary tensioners look like (posted some pics on page 2). hopefully the new ones will last much longer than 60k.

PeaMAX

55, 000 miles without an oil change?? Oil must have been really dark like a big rig diesel oil!!

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

It was very black and varnish looking. Definate premature wear in that motor goin on...

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

No and no. If you look at the pics i posted, theres some bolts that hold the cam front bearing caps and is what the solenoids bolt onto. You still would need to remove the front cover to get to those bolts.

reb

Turbizzy, do you know what production date Nissan installed these revised timing chain tensioners from the factory. Are 2008 vehicles subject to this failure.

* note my dealer comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you. Its just that dealer service people make it so obvious that there jobs are really to be salespeople.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, all these following models with VQ V6s:

04-07 Maxima and Quest V6
04-06 Altima V6
05-07 Pathfinder, Xterra and Frontier V6
No VIN breakpoints provided in the TSB, im assuming its all vehicles these model years.

Thanks for clearing up the dealer comment, i can understand your frustration with that. I do tend to notice how some advisors know absolutely nothing about what they're talking about and are quick to try to sell you something that "they" think might help your problem... without us even lookin at it first.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

i wonder if the infiniti fellas are running into this issue considering they're using the same engine.

PeaMAX

Thanx Turbizzy for all your inputs, i'll wait to take mine to the dealership, i just clocked 18,000 miles today in this bone-chilling deep freeze North East. The noise still persists after a fresh oil change but i'm getting used to it, what a design flaw....

edjose17

Turbizzy
I'm looking at the service manual and they say to remove the lower and upper oil pans...
based on your experience on servicing the FWD vq35 with this issue, is this necessary?
Can you mention what major components need to be removed to be able to remove the front timing chain cover?
thanks in advance

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

You only need to remove the lower oil pan so that you can reach and remove the couple of bolts that hold together the timing cover and upper oil pan which are only accessable once the lower pan is removed. And i think the oil pump pickup too since it bolts to the front timing cover.

Major components? Umm i think the power steering pump needs to be unbolted off the cover, the alternator and mounting bracket i think and compressor. And of course the engine mount and stud.

sabretooth

Just bought 2006 Maxima with 60k milage. Few days after I started driving I noticed the same whining annoying sound above 2K RPM. I was ignoring it and didnt want to face the reality that I just bought a car with this annoying sound.
However after reading the forum I decided to take it in. Tech at the Nissan dealer was like "we changed the catalytic converter, plz see if the sound is still there" (catalytic converter was changed due to service engine light, and has nothin to do with the sound).
I went out started the engine and the sound was there, called the tech (guy at the front desk) to check it out, he did a quick check and went back in by saying "oh let me send a mechanic out"
After 5-10 minutes he came back and said they will replace the parts, it will take 2-3- weeks to order so we will call you once the parts are in.
I was like - what parts ?? he goes "the belt assembly blah blah". I threw in the tensioner related tech stuff. He goes, yes we will replace the whole assembley and they will "take care of it"
All along the conversation it seemed like they knew what the issue was and they dont fix it untill you complain. I give them partial credit for the "we will take care of it" part of the deal
Stay tuned for the rest of the update, I wil update once my "assembly" is changed. Thanks again for everyones great input, it was a huge help.

reb

Hopefully your engine will not burn oil after the "service" as others have reported to be the case. If I were you, I'd be selling that car right after you get it back from service. Wipe your hands clean of Nissan and never look back.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Thats pretty typical of what i've encountered. To be honest this job is not very fun and techs actually loose alot of flat rate time on this therefore if you don't complain about it, most techs will just ignore it unless its hella obvious. So im pretty sure in your situation the tech probably heard it but wasn't sure if that particular noise was what you were talking about or maybe the cat heat sheild buzzing sound, which is also a typical noise. And lately its been tough gettin in all the parts for this TSB, they were on national back order a couple weeks ago so the fact that it may take a couple weeks to come in sounds about right. But free? Hellzyeah!

Really? I've never heard about this. Only time i've seen the VQs burn oil has been when they've sucked in damaged catalyst material into the exhaust ports and have had oil consumption but i've never seen this after a timing chain tensioner repair. Why would it? Your only messing with a couple O-rings and gaskets not related to the head gaskt or cylinders in any way. Can you show me where folks are having oil consumption issues after having the timing chains updated?