Trashed Engine or Something Less?
 

Hey everyone, long time no post. Last July I moved from Houston to South Bend, IN for a new job and of course took my '07 Maxima SE with me (I towed it on a 4-wheel trailer, didn't drive it up). A couple months ago the engine started feeling rough and I saw some white smoke (no blue tint) coming out the back. It got a little louder and I noticed a clicking sound that synched with the rev counter around 1500-2000 RPM -- basically city driving. If I revved it would go away, and wouldn't click on idle. I took it to Nissan and the first thing they saw was the oil -- sludged up and consistency of peanut butter. I have been very negligent in changing, and the oil was probably 20k miles old. Until the smoke/noise, it ran like a champ and never gave me any grief. No indicators, nominal temperature (right below middle like always), etc.

They drained what they could, took the oil pan off and cleaned that out, and gave me fresh oil. He said the fluids were old but everything looked OK; coolant level was fine too. Head gasket was (externally) dry and tight. We agreed I would come back in 500 miles again to flush out whatever crap the new oil loosened up; we did NOT do an oil flush.

Fast forward to today. We're about 250 miles later and the smoke is even worse; it's a big cloud for 20-30 seconds then a tiny bit during driving and right after you shut it off. The clicking has stopped; the engine temp is still normal, and still no indicators/warning lights. I called the tech again and they said at this point it's either re-ringing the engine or replacing the entire engine, but they won't know until they tear it apart. He quoted me $5500 for a new short block and $9500 for a new engine. At this point I don't know what to believe but want to get second opinions. I'm still under powertrain warranty but he said they don't warrant against sludge and I'm on the hook for it.

I don't know if I should shop around for help some more, try and sell the car without mentioning the smoke, or are they just taking me to the bank?

Thanks in advance everyone!

They are telling you the truth man you failed to change the oil for 20k :eek: what were you thinking your engine is screwed.

They are telling you the truth. Your best bet is try another dealer and don't mention that you've neglected the car. Most will ask for proof of oil changes though before they give you an engine.

Time to trade it in. Take your loss and get a car with a better cared for engine. Expensive lesson learned.

Used engines are fairly cheap and easy to find. A shop to do the work is about the same degree of difficulty to find. I'd say, if you find a good shop with reasonable prices, your losses will be cut at least in half (2500-3000).

IMO, they are taking you a littler bit to the bank, because tearing it apart seems counterproductive.

Especially with the abundance of good used, low mile 04+ VQ engines out there.

Maybe even try taking to to a local Oil changing place and have them do a flush, and change the oil again and see what happens.

Does it use oil at all? You do know where the dip stick is :squint: right

Change your oil at recommendend intervals.

LMAO...

20k miles w/o oil change...:laugh:
I hope you learned your lesson.

you're better of getting a new car...you could get yourself a nice car with $9500 or $5500
Your choice. :D

Orgers are usually selling nice max's for $4000 or less. Keep on the lookout.

What do you expect us to tell you? You are the cause of your car failure because you have neglected basic maintenance. Your engine is ruined because you.

Dealers "have" to do things certain ways or manufacturer standards...aka new parts only. You will almost never see a dealer put in used parts..if ever, unless the dealer is eating the cost, even then. Honestly as far as an independant garage....they will almost ALWAYS have no problem putting used parts into a car(where I work, we do it alot) but the customer understands we are not liable to bad parts being installed. So, you best/cheapest bet is to go to an independent shop to have a used engine put in, the dealer will only do a short or a long block.

Wow that really sucks, I mean you were the main cause of the problem Nissan wont help you for sure. This is what i suggest, go to one of those oil change places and have them do an oil flush, where basically they run cleaner to clean out the oil pan. then put fresh oil in. See what that does. If problem still exist, one more thing to try is seafoam (Chernmax has a video of how to seafoam) then change oil again after you have followed cherns instructions of when to change oil. If you want, do the seafoam right after OIL cleaner from oil place.

if your problem still exists, you have two options trade the bish in or go to independent mechanic and source a good 3.5 engine. Good luck and keep us posted.

PS, if you do trade in, give the family here a heads up(vin# and spec), so no one or their family members here gets hosed

To the OP.....dude...no sympathies....what were you thinking.....did you at least try to add any oil in that 20K miles.....my guess is no (would have probably saved your engine by not allowing the sludge to form)

To the others recommending he "trade it in"....what kind of shady shiznit recommendation is that.....so OP F#$%S up the engine and then some innocent bystander that works hard for their money gets F$^#&D!!! Another reason why I would never buy a used car unless it was from someone I know or dealer certified!!!

Yup, the trade in unless you tell em engine is scrap is really not nice.

the OP wouldnt be the first one to do the trade in, It happens all day everyday. when i buy a used car i buy a certified pre-owned with extended warranty and I do my research. I really dont buy cars from mom and pop shops.

Does it suck that some poor person will get a lemon, yes, yes yes. Have I bought lemons, yes yes yes, Learned my lesson. Lots of people said for him to trade it in, do you really think he did not think of this as well? if if we didnt give him that advice and he never came on here to tell us about his lack of maintenance of a sweet ride:D he probably would of traded it in anyway. I agree its fudged up advice but it is a viable option none the less like it or not

Man, if you are able to drive around, do another 100% synthetic oil change and throw in engine oil treatment.

last resort play stupid and go to a different dealer and see if you can get your engine replaces as you are still under warranty.

wow, not even my mother who doesn't have the slightest clue of what rpm stands for knows oil changes are important enough to never forget or go without. YOUR AN IDIOT! I'm not sorry you are receiving a beaten horse. you deserve to hear how stupid you are as many times as possible. a disgrace to this forum and car owners alike.

now to give you the best advice, do not take it to a dealer. You will get charged for about as much as you can buy a new Maxima. (and i sure hope you don't, no maxima deserves to be subjected to your stupidity). Buy a refurbished engine. they are the best option for your money.

seriously, wtf is wrong with you people. I'd beat you with a stick full of rusty nails if i could. F*&# YOU for contributing to the $hit world we live in. why is it no one has the balls to own up to their mistakes and take responsibility. you pussies would rather screw people out of thousands of dollars to save your own ***. in a way its stealing. so go ahead if your ok with being a bonified thief.

There isn't a car warranty out there that is going to warranty against owner neglect. Why should the dealer be on the hook for your screwup? As far as taking it to another dealer, and NOT mentioning the smoke...do you really think that they won't notice it? :confused: They kind of specifically look for things like smoking engines...

Whether he mentions it, or not, they are going to know as soon as they start tearing the motor down. If it's caked in sludge, it'll be pretty hard to hide.

How about foot the bill for the repair since it's your own neglect that caused the problem? How about a little honesty and integrity here? Even if you do take it to another dealer, do you really think they aren't going to know that the engine was neglected? As soon as they start tearing into it, they are going to know.

One of the best answers given here. We, the consumers, ultimately pay the price when people do unethical things like this. Down the road, the dealer is going to pass this cost onto us. Own up to your mistake, and pay for the repairs. If you try to trade it in, you aren't going to get crap for it...they are going to know that the engine is shot.

Lots of scammers in this thread.

:mrgone:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ton+TX+Nissan+

I doubt it would take very long to give a few dealerships a heads up... :hide:

If it's smoking as badly as he says, I think they would have a heads-up as soon as he pulls into the lot.

I never put forward the idea of trying to get over on the dealer or any potential new owner of said vehicle with the shot engine. The dealer won't give him much for the trade, that's why I said he will take a LOSS on his trade. The dealer will then invest any monies into the trade-in's engine to repair it and then pass those costs onto the new owner. It is also up to the new owner to do a car fax review to see what was repaired on the car as well as ask the dealer for the repair records and then make an INFORMED decision to buy the car.

You can find a decent used motor on eBay for around $1000. Look at customer reviews to pick a decent seller. Have an independent shop install it. Your current engine doesn't just have bad rings, but all the bearings have also probably been compromised. You could probably do the whole thing w. a used engine for less than $2000. I agree w. those who say, don't deal this off on an unsuspecting buyer. Think how you would feel if you were sold something that was worth far less than you paid for it. Or how a member of your family would feel. You made a mistake, but you don't deserve to die for it. forget about it and get your car fixed. But don't make someone else's life worse than it probably already is just to save yourself a few bucks.

Be sure to get the whole engine (i.e., with heads) so that all working parts will be sludge-free...

Integrity in the real world...that's rich.

Dealerships are looking to phu<k you out of your money all the time, what's wrong with sticking one to them every now and then...;)

In all seriousness, knowing you have a problem with a car, and being the direct cause of that problem are two different things. Some people have issues with their car breaking down. Instead of fixing it, they trade it in. If the dealership misses it on their inspection, shame on them, they're in the business of circulating cars, they should have better practices.

That said, this guy really torched his car. But in the end...it is what it is, just another car about to be re-circulated...

Interesting response, MadMax. Let me add a third "different thing." This guy knows his car has a serious problem. You seem to suggest he trade it in, just like lots of other people do, but WITHOUT saying anything about it to the dealer. The philosophy you appear to favor is, "Buyer Beware" (or in Latin, "caveat emptor."). That particular philosophy is totally unprincipled and amounts essentially to nothing more or less than the law of the jungle--where the smart/strong survive and flourish, at the expense of everyone else. You ridicule those of us who object to such a philosophy and consider us to be stupid and self-destructive, when in reality most of us prefer a clear conscience to saving a few dollars at the expense of others.

Let me add a few words about dealers. Sure, many cut corners and live by the law of the jungle just like some of us do. Others are honest, but must protect themselves against dishonest customers. My friend, what goes around comes around, and it is sheer foolishness to counsel dishonesty in dealings with anyone, including car dealers. Your self-respect and personal integrity are precious and should not be for sale. As others have already said, "accept responsibility for your actions and don't try to make the rest of us pay indirectly for your mistakes."

More food for thought.
 

Automotive News article 4/3/02 & 2/8/02
I get a lot of questions about owners being told that because of engine sludge build-up they now need an new engine. In some cases that is true so lets offer some examples and see where you fit in.
Engine sludged and the motor will not turn over. You need a motor, the cost of repairing that one will exceed the cost of a new short block assembly. When the engine is torn down for removal they will check the cylinder head assemblies for damage and you may need to have more work done.
Engine sludged and the motor makes fairly loud noises when its running. You need to replace the short block and maybe the cylinder heads. Once the engine is torn down for removal will they know for sure if the cylinder heads and associated parts are good or bad.
Engine smokes and runs but does not have any noise. You probably have a good engine and all that needs to be done is cleaning the engine. It sounds easy but its labor intensive to do a good job. It really is not all that difficult (again if the engine is quiet when running). NOTE: Before starting the repair make sure you have all the parts you need or a way to get them once the engine is apart. The best way to clean the engine of sludge is to follow this formula:
1) Get the engine hot.
2) Take off the valve covers and using Diesel fuel in a spray bottle, spray the cylinder heads and other sludged parts. The Diesel fuel, when applied to a hot or very warm surface, will actually make the sludge flow off the parts and then using a scrub brush of some type start brushing the area and it will make it look new.
3) Now that Diesel fuel and sludge will wind up in the oil pan and that needs to come off also and be cleaned.
4) You then need to replace the oil pump pick-up screen (cleaning may work if you are careful), the valve cover (Covers if V-6) will normally need to be replaced. Cleaning the valve covers is difficult since the vented area toward the top of the cover can't be cleaned.
5) Clean the intake as well as you can, change the oil and filter, PCV valve and once together run the engine for a short time, then replace the oil and filter again to be safe. You will probably need to clean the throttle body to allow the engine to idle, the sludge will build up a varnish that may prevent base idle.
If things were not to bad to begin with you can probably get it done for as little as a couple of hundred dollars if you "repair" some parts instead of replacing them.
Some dealers take the cylinder head off others do not. Taking them off does a better job but adds to the cost, cleaning on the engine should be good for the repair.
Some are saying that the piston rings should be replaced. Since the problem is a sludge problem which is results in oil laying on metal surfaces the piston rings are not affected and do not need to be replaced.

To answer the OP's question: trashed engine.

If you do the trade in, go to autozone and buy STP oil additive, all it is really is thick oil, might need 2 or 3, or dump a quart of 20-50 into the engine, should bandaid your engine long enough to hide any engine issues during a trade, are you burning oil?

When I was a tech, most cars that had engine or trans issues usually had those parts replaced, so the next owner should end up with a somewhat new car:D

i wanna curb stomp your F***in face.

I'm sorry to say but that engine is mostly likely on its way to giving up.

But before you take the expensive route, I would go and try out cheaper (cross your fingers) type of solutions. Like a few treatments of Seafoam directly into the oil because from personal experience if you leave in Seafoam too long your oil will have the consistency of water and I'm sure it can take some of that sludge off.

Live and learn my friend! We all make silly mistakes like that at one point or another. My mistake was buying a car with a bad engine that someone traded in... costed me more than cost of my Maxima in the end and I missed nearly two weeks of school because my car died on me and I didn't have money for another car.

So yeah, trade in that car like everyone else suggested and if you are lucky it might end up in the hands of a poor college student like me. And it will be especially awesome when it dies two months later.

:mad:

No....not your mistake.....just your misfortune that there are immoral people in this world who cheat, lie and steal as long as they feel good about it.....sucks that you had to be at the receiving end of this crap....but don't worry....what goes around comes around and hopefully the next car they got was a lemon that screwed them over left and right!!!

Reading some of the replies in here are amazing, people treat cars like their body, they don't do anything to them until a noise starts to irritate them;)

I use to be young and juvenile, but working in a dealerships for several years taught me no one changes their oil, no one does anything to their cars, some of the people in here need to reevaluate what they are saying and why.

It's just a car and many are being treated the same way every day

I'm sorry, but this thread is still funny.:laugh:

I'm still gettting over the stick with rusty nails very funny

20k without an oil change and it still starts? WOW. I would have a flush done and change the oil every 500 miles after that 3 or 4 times. If it's still smoking it's trashed.

My dad had an 84 toyota truck with a little 20R in it. He never changed the oil in it (he did not like the truck but he had to have it to make his wife happy) my brother and I would change it when we borrowed the truck. Sometimes it would go over 15k without a change. He sold the truck in 2006 with over 300k on it and it still ran. I did a double oil change on it once. I borrowed it in the morning checked the tar and changed the oil. drove it for the day and the oil was back to tar so I changed it again.

It's interesting that the OP has since made no response by way of a feedback on the hapless Max. It seems he's decide to sit back and enjoy the comments of contributors on the pros and cons of his carelessness. Or could it be that he's left the thread. I shouldn't be surprised if he's done that, after all he opened the thread with some faint apology for having kept away from the forum. Must be a happy-go-lucky guy.

I've never ridiculed anyone. I suggested that it's rare to expect integrity in the world of automotive resale...period.

I think it's great that many of you on here believe in full disclosure. I commend you for it. But in the end, this isn't a right or wrong issue. It's a poorly maintained motor that still runs, just smokes a lot. If he were to trade it in and it "Not smoke" due to additives, hey, that's great for him, and the law of the jungle. You walk into any dealership on the planet, and that's the law...there are no "integrity rich" car salesmen, they're all concerned with the bottom line, and you're piece of mind is not on their radar. They will lowball you on your trade, and raise the price higher then ever necessary on the sale car, and try to make you feel like a king the whole time. They will then take the car, auction it off, and it will enter the world of uncertainty, as another dealership get's the car, and mikeymouses anything they can to get it to run clean for a sale...oh, and mark it up astronomically as well...

:bowrofl: