Max'dMatt2k3

Don't know what I did but I deleted the first post, I still have the orig. comments, I dont want anyone thinking I deleted them on purpose.


Dear Nissan,
For years you have provided us with fun to drive alternatives to the pedestrian offerings from Honda and Toyota. Your cars were nimble, quick, and ahead of there time. You were the Enthusiasts choice for a reliable, dependable car. However it seems you have been memorized by the earnings reports from Toyota and Honda, your products which were once unique (Altima, Maxima, Pathfinder, Frontier, Sentra) have now become overweight and mainstream. Where I could once find a handsome, responsive, well handling car, I now find flashy styling and rental-grade handling.

The '04 Maxima was a departure from what we loved, and while we grew to accept it's hefty weight, soft suspenison, and french derived styling, We still longed for a true 4 door sports car from the motherland. Then you gave us a CVT, and eliminated the manual. The CVT eliminated any sporting intentions, as well as gave the car an alien feeling. You made the SE a wheel and trim job, Casting away us enthusiasts as we were outnumbered by the John and Jane Doe of the world who can be easily appeased with electronics and fancy acronyms, which are cheaper than real-world engineering.

For '09 you promised a return to your roots, you showed a 4DSC sticker in the window, and the faithful started to drool, then came the sexy lines of the new car and we got hot behind the collar. Then made the claim this is the best handling FWD car in the market. We positively were in love, the Maxima was back.

A practical sedan for the driver, not a commuter.
I eagerly awaited the first ones to arrive. My dealer got a white on frost Maxima, with the SV tech. (no more SE) pkg.
Beautiful, you slimmed the car down while making it appear larger, the bulged fenders hint of RWD performance. the headlights have a splash of GTR, the car easily could be a new Infiniti.
You even remembered to introduce the car with a matching interior, something you forgot to do in '00, and '04. and '02 with the Altima.
You even made the perf. model have credible handling, with extra braces, and sticky tires.

But then comes the drive, while it does have great acceleration theres no emotion, no involvement, no passion. I don't feel like this car was developed by engineers, but accountants and lawyers.

The CVT makes the car feel like it's powered by a noisy electric motor, not a thoroughbred V6. The paddle shifters scream exotic, yet when I pull them I'm greeted with a pause, click, whir, and unsatisfying revving. followed by a drop in revs that don't seem to match what the car is physically doing. Again, it's an alien experience, like flooring a forklift, or driving a direct drive golf cart, or kiddie go-cart.

I understand your claim to increased MPG and smoothness. But those are Lexus selling points, and they have an 8spd auto.

While I give you credit for resurrecting the 4DSC moniker, it has been wrongly applied to this highway cruiser.

Consider a light, mid-size sedan ( a la 1st gen TSX)
with a 260-270hp VQ with a 7500redline, direct injection ( like some JDM VQs) and remapped cams for a better top-end, and efficency.
Offer a 6spd auto, with manual control, and a close ratio 6spd with a tall 6th gear to keep the EPA happy and your CAFE numbers up
give us BOSE, Leather and heated seats, but eliminate the sales gimmicks (lane departure, adaptive lights, adaptive cruise, electric steering, auto entry seats) to keep the price and weight down.
A GXE version with 17"s and cloth seats could start at 25-27k
A Nismo version would probably be too boy-racer to sell well. Instead use your JDM in house tuner Autech to develop a true sport model with specialized dampers, spring rates, and aluminum suspension bits. An attractive aero pkg, (no tacky rear wing or decals please, this is an adults car). and uprated brakes from your G or Z, as well as heavily bolstered seats and sporty interior bits like aluminum and carbon fiber.
a base SE starts at $28k
the Autech sells for $32-$35
keep the luxo-models for the Altima, since both cars compete w/ each other make the Altima the everymans car and the Maxima the sport sedan

Keep in mind Autech has already been US certified as the '08 NISMO Z was an Autech product. Use the tuning division as BMW does with ///M or Mercedes with AMG. Imagine the 2012 Maxima Autech Version, or Sentra SE-R Autech. Instant Halo models to back up the sporting intentions of the brand, something the GTR alone cannot accomplish.


Nissan, you have the resources, and money to develop these products. Instead of chasing the mainstream, blaze your own path as you did with the 240Z, B210, '85-'99 Maxima, the original Altima, Xterra, Pathfinder, SER, Skyline GT-R.
Stand out, be proud of your unique heritage.

Eliminate the life-sucking models like Versa, Quest, Armada, Titan, V8 Pathfinder. This will free up more than enough capital if you need it.

We may not be the largest customer base, but we have needs, and desires.
Eliminate your need to have something for everyone. You will never be Toyota or Honda, Instead focus on those who want a change, something different, and distinguishable from the rental they had, or the Jonses Accord.

All too quickly automakers abandon there values to become me-toos
I'd hate to see this happen to you.

Max'dMatt2k3

Orig. by 4DRSPEED


wtf is this crap.

1st off are you hoping Nissan will see this on here or are you actually mailing that sappy pathetic love story to them?

2nd why would a car maker or anybody for that matter not have something for everyone? You're missing out on a niche in the market and potentially profits. So say you were a clothing maker, but you said **** fat people. So you only made XS, S, M, L clothing. You mean to tell me you wouldn't at least offer XL maybe XXL because you have needs, desires, and you'll never be a Big & Tall store etc?

It's all about money. Money walks and talks. Nissan did their thing when they were still called Datsun, and then through the 90s tried to stick their roots, but obviously it wasn't working as well as they hope cause they basically ran out of money and Renault scooped them up.

Some people can't face the facts but carlos ghosn has turned Nissan around. The Z returned, the GT-R has come to the states, and while it was a half-hearted attempt the 09 Maxima has returned back to its roots a little a bit. Anything is better than the 6th gen.

Automakers have to go with the trends. None keep the cars the same size and they never downsize. They always get larger. Ex: The miata, 3 series. Some grow bigger than others.

I think Nissan is proud of their design theme. The 7th gen is a good looking car. While it has a Lexus GS, Camry type rear end the rest of the car is really nothing like it. All I have to say is Nissan I think has taken a step forward in design while Acura has taken about 10 steps back. Even the 6th gen didn't take such drastic steps backwards. The new TSX and TL are just down right awful especially the TL.

Buy some books on business or go take some classes. A mainstream car company can't rely on sports cars or "sporty" cars. In America people need the room or need to haul things. There will always be pickups, vans, SUVs. And they'll continue to improve their gas consuming. Vans will always be around because they do everything the SUV does get better mileage, just don't look as "cool". And you have to have your compacts no matter how they are.

So basically your entire "letter" is asking Nissan to shoot themselves in the foot and go under like in the late 90s. Awesome.

CLIFFS This thread is gay, letter doesn't get anything done, nissan can't rely on sportscars, the true 4dsc maxima will never return /thread

SEmy2K2go

iTrader: (10)

Then, what's this:

Divewjason

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

i clicked away from hot latina midget **** for this?

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

medication is intended for you to actually take it once prescribed

lightonthehill

Max'dMatt2k3 - You need to keep your computer locked, and the password hidden, especially if you have an Acura buddy lurking anywhere near. There is nothing for them to see at their dealer's lot, so they hang around Maxima fans, looking for any chance to cause trouble.

I can understand why an Acura fan might be having a very difficult time these days; the current TL looks like an early Honda with a dose of new Ford chrome. While the Acura fans are trying to adjust to that ugliness, the '09 Maxima arrives, with a sleek, athletic Coke bottle shape, accented by trendy, edgy styling.

Acura fans are remembering their glory days, hoping things get better soon. The new Maxima only rubs salt in an already stinging wound.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

shhhhh. the voices in my head heard you. now i have to go out and hurt.

elgordito941

iTrader: (1)

the letter is well written and well hearted, but i dont think it'll do much. 1st-5th gens is where i think itll end for the above average Driver sports sedans in the maxima world. As the world turns we must conform as there is no real choice unless someone on the org owns half of nissan. as the altima becomes wat once was a true maxima we have to except that as the flagship maxima goes for more the luxury buyers theres different routes to take. the wish 4 a old rooted maxima will only give u the push to make the new gen unique in a different way. if u want a manual four door sports sedan of the year model, then altima's are the only way to go. true theyre no MAXIMA but its still nissan and u can evn have it a coupe. as a car industry as a whole basics just doesnt do it anymore evn Hyundai is turning into the unnecessary luxury stuff and they were as BASIC as anyone could ever get in a car. as the Final thought for the maxima its still one hell of a car, only with new amenities.


moment of silence for the manual trans. in Maxima's ....

lightonthehill

elgordito941 - You see things like they are, and, like it or not, have adjusted to them. By the traditional definition of 4DSC, the Altima 3.5 with manual is indeed Nissan's 4DSC, and is actually an excellent and affordable car. Maybe not the image of the Maxima, but more car for the money.

The only point in your fine and pragmatic post I might question is whether owning half of Nissan could change this; I feel you might have to also own half of Renault to swing this change. We must remember who bought whom.

djipka

iTrader: (9)

Very interesting thread. IMHO the new Maxima is good and so is the Altima. The thing is that they could of done something else with those two cars so that they keep their glory. What I mean is that for me Nissan is the Japanese BMW. Now here is the thing. BMW is still what it was 25 ot even more years ago. 3 is a 3, 5 is a 5, 7 is a 7, M is M. That's what Nissan should have done with their line of cars. So in other words, I agree with the letter even it was just bull ****

P.S. About the GT-R. There is a saying in Bulgaria:"One bird doesn't make it Spring."
Don't know if it makes sense to ya'll but what is means is that you can't have one good thing and claim all the rest is good too.

Gollum67

iTrader: (1)

Please post the link to that site

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

cant wife is right here.

djipka

iTrader: (9)

Who needs **** when we have Nissan Maxima

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

I agree with the letter, I'd like nothing more than for the return of the true Maxima. However it is not realistic or feasible.

foxbat

i agree with the letter. as a 2002 A4 maxima owner who will likely be purchasing a new car soon i am disappointed with the new max. they absolutely killed off any hopes of getting my 30k with the shi++y CVT. had they put a proper 5 or 6 sp auto i would have been game.

nissan should discontinue this car...it's soul and purpose has been lost with that transmissiion.

onwards to the G8 GT for me.

Kevin319

iTrader: (1)

Pontiac over a Maxima?

lightonthehill

Kevin - We have to remember there will always be those who hang tough to the past. Most 'mannie' drivers either don't understand or care that the new and improved CVT on the '09 will move the Maxima with better accelleration and better MPG than any shifting tranny; they are only interested in retaining the enjoyment they obtain from shifting. In a world-gone-tech where most folks feel somewhat powerless to control anything, the ability to shift for themselves puts a feeling of some amount of control back in their lives. Despite insistent rhetoric to the contrary, it is an empowerment thing.

bigpulve+

iTrader: (11)

14.5 1/4 with more power and less weight = better?


Im confused?

foxbat

and the problem is??? i currently own both a pontiac transam and a maxima. the problem again? additionally, the g8 gt is better looking, far more distinguishable, quicker, faster, comparable mpg, rear drive, and all out sexier than the 09 max. sorry to say, but even the magazine experts favored the g8 gt over the max.

foxbat

i think we're talking about two different things here. if you were referring to my post, i was referring to a 5 or 6 speed automatic transmission vs a cvt. a cvt will not outperform a properly geared 5/6 speed auto. if the cvt was the magic bullet in a "word-gone-tech," then why does the higher level g35/g37 have 5 speed autos? also, why is every other manufacturer (including toyota) developing 6, 7, even 8 speed autos? even a bread and butter v6 camry has a sweet 6 speed auto. a better transmission than a quirky cvt in a max, and nearly as quick 0-60 as well. what a shame.....an 09 max can barely leave grandpas v6 camry in the dust.

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

The CVT is technically the most efficient transmission out there seeing as how it has infinite gear ratios.

However:
Automakers haven't had a lot of time to refine the design which means:
- problems handling torque
- efficiency (parasitic loss) is not where it could be
- behavioral software might need improvement

In addition, people are used to conventional autos and don't necessarily want to give up the pleasing sound and feel of finite, predefined gear ratios.

That is more than enough reasons to stick with conventional automatics for the time being. Nissan is trying to be a pioneer, and honestly in this respect I wish they wouldn't. Give me a damn manual, I'll do everything the way I want to and you don't have to worry about pleasing me with transmission behavior.

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

Yeah, why would anyone ever get a RWD LS3 powered sedan with a proper transmission over a FWD 290hp CVT?

omelet1978

I have an Altima 3.5 SE with the CVT and I honestly don't see what the big deal is. It's quiet, responsive, and is a hell of a lot of fun to drive. I haven't driven the Maxima yet, but I would bet it drives fairly similiar.

I think Nissan made a lot of good decisions with the re-design. Unique styling to separate it with the Altima (it did take a while to grow on me though), the CVT which gets better mileage, and a sweet looking interior. It's on the same platform as the Altima which saves development money, and they will probably get 60-70 thousand sales yearly out of it.

The biggest thing I think they are missing is AWD. Maybe on the diesel Maxima coming out next year?

reb

"the CVT which gets better mileage"

Better mileage than what???????????????????????????

jcalabria

The same car with a 5AT or 6MT.

lightonthehill

All in the eyes of the viewer.

'Magazine experts' my fanny. Magazine experts are very tied to the past, are strongly pro-shifting tranny (most disparage the CVT before even entering the test car), and place elapsed time at the top of their checklist. A near-luxury sporty family sedan should be evaluated on an entirely different basis.

For me, the G8 look is straight out of the 80s, and one I don't care for at all. In my opinion, about as UNsexy as a car can be. Although the Aussie-built G8 is hopefully going to be a reliable vehicle, fiirst glance at the plain Pontiac grille reminds me of the hundreds of thousands of unreliable Pontiacs of the past several decades. The G8 MPG is an MPG or two worse than the '09 Maxima also. Internally, the '09 Maxima is clearly better appointed and equipped than the G8. With the G8, you either get the 3.6 liter V6 with 256 HP, or the gas-sucking 6 (SIX!) liter V8. Worst of all, the G8 is RWD, which I drove from 1949 until 1984, risked my life every time I drove in inclimate weather, and will NEVER go back to.

Others, of course, see things differently. As I said, it is all in the eyes of the viewer.

lightonthehill

I think you are probably correct when comparing shifting trannies with pre-'09 Maxima CVTs. But even some of the very anti-CVT magazine jocks are saying the '09 Maxima CVT is NOT 'quirky', and is clearly better than all previous Nissan CVTs. Toyota is way behind in CVT development, and realizes their shifting trannies will not be comparable in either accelleration or MPG with near-future CVTs. Their temporary fix is to keep adding gears.

There are millions of drivers that are not ready for CVTs, so Nissan (especially in their Infiniti line) still puts shifting trannies in many of their vehicles. Yes, the Maxima has been used as a 'testbed' for the CVT, and that has annoyed many Maxima fans. But the time will come when most vehicles will have CVTs, and the evolving CVT will eventually leave all shifting trannies in the dust as far as accelleration and efficiency. Many folks do not yet see this happening, but it is going to happen; tightening government fleet MPG requirements practically demand it.

vernk

sorry the maxima is not the "testbed" for the CVT the first thing they put it in was a suv I think it was in the first gen of it on top of that so the Murano was the "testbed" which I would say was a good choice they put it in a heavy suv with the same engine of some of the lighter cars they have it in now.

lightonthehill

Of course you are correct. The CVT has been around quite awhile. I was thinking of (and should have said something to the effect) that the Maxima was Nissan/Infiniti's CVT test bed for 'performance' sedans (i.e., it was put in the Maxima, but not in any of the Infiniti sedans), and put there before the general public was convinced the CVT was a proper tranny for a '4DSC'.

Majestic

iTrader: (9)

I agree with post 1 and post 2. I am disappointed by the performance of the 7th gen but it is sexy and better than the 6th gen.

vernk

now I think with the proper programing I think the CVT will be faster then a auto or a manual for the simple reason it could keep the RPMs in the peak area instead of droping down then working it's way back up every time you shift, I can't wait to see what the 2010 maxima DL will do with all that low end TQ and a CVT then add a turbo I bet it will set you back in the seat all the way to up to speed and with no shifts there would be no building pressure back after a shift. The big thing is going to be the CVT control map, from what I'v read on it the Murano drops off after 70mph due to the CVT starts taking on a higher gear profile, and I can see why they did that, other wise you would have all kinds of heavy SUVs that could be doing over 100mph just as fast as the VQ could get it there. So for all you computer geeks get on it we are going to need a controller for the CVT that will let you keep the RPMs around 5000 to 6000 (?) all the way to 140 mph or so.

09lee

It seems like the guys that own the older Maxima's are the ones not happy? Me on the other hand this is my first 09 Maxima, I have a 04 Altima and just got rid of my 07 350z. The 09 Maxima is one of the best all around cars i have ever bout and it is one of the Sexiest cars on the market.

Gerem

The CVT is great, I traded my '03 Murano for my '09 Maxima, trust me the CVT was good on my Mo and it's great on the Max. If you only do a test drive you'll never get how good the CVT is!!!! After a week of driving (yes a week!!!) you'll never go back to a X speed auto. My brother bought an '07 BMW5.35xi, he drove my Max for 3 days and he wants to trade his Bimmer.

mls277

The CVT is great...silky smooth. I wouldnt go back.