Bigbob0002

I installed Magnaflows and created a topic because I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working like I thought it would.

I installed this Pedal Commander and I came to a few realizations I think. If I have the PC off the computer keeps it between 1,500-2,000 rpms until I get to 30 mph. It did this before and after the exhaust. At first I thought it was just how Nissan geared it. Now I'm realizing that doesn't really make sense if you watch the tachometer.

With the PC I have a ton of options for how sensitive it is for throttle response. If I go very sensitive it flies up over 2,000 rpms even from a stop and is honestly a little hard to control. It throws me back in the seat even if from a stop.

If I adjust the PC to be less sensitive the PCU keeps it in that 2k rpms range. If I make it more sensitive the tachometer jumps. It's almost hard to take advantage of the PC because it seems like the PC and PCU are fighting each other. The tachometer will stay at 2,000 rpms, and a little more gas and... Bam, 3,500.
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There was a topic about Nissan programming the PCU to keep rpms low to protect the cvt. I think that's what's happening.

On more sensitive settings with the PC I feel like the cvt has a ton of potential from a performance perspective. When I turn off the PC I'm getting really good mileage. It's the best of both worlds.

I'm sure it's fairly common but I'm a bit worried about the life expectancy. However I hope that Nissan sticks with it because I think the cvt has tremendous potential. If the cvt is more reliable over a long term, that allows Nissan to let the engine open up quicker. That's what I'm trying to say.

Bigbob0002

Slow board. I'm going to use this topic as a dumping ground for cvt info and maybe someday someone will find this helpful, or correct me where I'm wrong. I want to really understand the Jatco cvt that Nissan uses.

There are lots of things I don't understand so discussion/correction would be much appreciated.

In the most basic sense the cvt is 2 pullies with a metal belt connecting them. One pulley is connected to the engine and the other pulley I'll call the push pulley (see below video) .

As the car accelerates pressure is increased around the push pulley, squeezing the belt. Essentially the push pulley comes together and the belt shifts to the outer rim of the push pulley. This shifts the majority of the length of the belt to be rotating around the push pulley. Because there is a longer rotation around the push pulley there is a shorter rotation around the pulley connected to the engine.

The belt is a figure "8". As the top circle of the "8" gets bigger, the bottom circle has to get smaller.

At what would be the equivalent to overdrive the belt has the longest possible rotation around the push pulley and has a very short rotation around the engine pulley. This means the engine rotates easier and runs at lower revs. Hopefully I'm understanding this correctly.

In the below video @ 3:53 he shows how the belt is assembled. It's basically 2 metal groups of bands with these rivets in between. The rivets fall into grooves in the pulleys to keep the belt together.

What's interesting is he actually assembles the belt and on each side of the belt is this group of 12 metal rings. Each ring is slightly smaller than the last ring so that they can fit inside each other. @ 2:06 he even theorizes that adding more metal rings would make the belt stronger and able to handle more torque. At the time of the video belts were made with 9 or 12 metal bands grouped together.

https://youtu.be/PiwRUfFEc5k

As the car accelerates/decelerates you have both pullies moving in/out and the belt shifting constantly. I can see why the manufactures would try to limit how quickly the pullies/belt are moving.

The main thing is if someone were going to do a performance belt could they get away with doing 24 (for example) of these metal bands and still have the belt be flexible? The bands still need to fit inside the rivet (he calls them elements)-see @3:05, so the rivets might need bigger slots and you may also need to change the pullies to accommodate a bigger belt.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

I moved your thread from the General Maxima section to the 8th generation Maxima forum. You'll get more action/responses there.

Bigbob0002

^Thanks. Appreciate that.
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I think I had a misunderstanding above. I think the pullies are attached to the engine and the driveshaft. At maximum efficiency (overdrive) the belt is situated that so that engine only needs to rotate once to turn the driveshaft multiple rotations. Is that right?

I'll be posting a lot here over the next few weeks. I wanted to share this 2 video series. This guy has a 2010 Rogue and the cvt went with 186k miles. Both videos are about 1.5 hours combined and I'm watching it for my 3rd time. He rips apart the cvt and it's pretty educational.

In the 1st video he finds that the belt blew and he ultimately finds out that the pieces jammed up everything. Basically destroyed the transmission .

https://youtu.be/T7Hhxrk9D3I

In the 2nd video he finds the root cause. If you skip to 30:00 he starts to pull apart one of the pullies that had jammed. By design the shaft of the pulley that broke down is trying to rotate. There are 3 grooves and 6 little ball bearings that prevent the pulley from rotating, and forces it to go up and down.

All the torque of the car running is placed on these 6 ball bearings. Over a period of time the grooves were grinded out and widened. Eventually the shaft broke free and started rotating, which sheared off the ball bearings. Then the bearings got wedged into the shaft and prevented the pulley from moving at all. The other pulley was still adjusting as it should and basically stretched the belt until it snapped.

https://youtu.be/_64zEsMdQ9A

What would need to change is a stronger metal for the grooves so they won't grind down and widen. There should also be more grooves and ball bearings to spread the load more evenly. This would absolutely have to happen to support bigger engines or towing.

Bigbob0002

I'm starting to understand at least the inner workings of the cvt better which I'm trying to relate back to the Pedal Commander situation. There's still a good amount of problems I'll research and I need to learn about torque converters and the smaller chain attached there. I'm starting to understand why overheating is a huge problem but I need to internalize what I'm learning. Hopefully since I'm a noob with this stuff I'm trying to explain it so some other people can learn from what I'm discovering?

FYI I woke up at 3am and couldn't fall back asleep because I could not stop thinking about cvts.

OK so I'm pretty sure both pullies are 1 stationary side and one movable side. The oil pump fills a chamber with oil. As the chamber fills the oil has no where to go so it forces pressure on the push pulley to push the moving side into the stationary side. As you decelerate it removes oil to reduce pressure. Both pullies are spring loaded in opposite directions. The push pulley is spring loaded to be open and the oil pressure needs to be greater than the resistance of everything movable in the cvt system.

From a stop it goes like this:
1. I push on the gas pedal and the engine rotates. The engine is connected to the push pulley and starts turning it.
2. The belt starts rotating on the push pulley, which in turn rotates the secondary pulley. The secondary pulley is connected to the drive axel and the car starts accelerating.
3. As the car accelerates the oil pump starts filling the chamber with oil. This creates pressure which starts to force the push pulley to clamp towards the closed position.
4. The closing of the push pulley starts to clamp on the belt. The belt has the elements that are lubricated and the belt starts to slide up towards the outer edge of the push belt.
5. As the belt shifts to the outer edge of the push pulley it needs more of the belt length since it's covering a greater circumference.
6. As the length of the belt is pulled tighter around the push pulley it leaves less length around the secondary pulley. This starts to tighten the belt around the secondary pulley and the belt slides in around the base of the second pulley.

This proceeds until the belt is longest around the outer edge of the push pulley and shortest around the base of secondary pulley. At this point each rotation of the engine moves the belt much easier around the push pulley and it causes many rotations of the drive axel. Overdrive.

​What I contend is that it's not until now that Nissan wants to let you open up the throttle. The pressure from the oil pump is already maximized, the push pulley is closed as far as it will go, the secondary pulley is open as far as that will go, and the belt is not going to shift anymore since it's already squeezed to the outer rim of the push pulley. Opening up the engine only causes the shafts and belt to rotate faster, but there's no more internal shifting of the pullies, belt or oil pump.

Coming back to the Pedal Commander. If I start cranking the engine from a stop it forces the oil pump to fill the chamber and pressurize the system quicker, the push pulley starts clamping together with more torque and faster, the belt is being squeezed faster and stretching faster, which starts separating the secondary pulley faster. All of the "shifting" is happening quicker.

Assuming I'm even right on above, what I'm not sure is if Nissan does this because these shifting parts are prone to failure through shifting stress, or if they are simply doing what they can to limit wear and tear in any way possible due to the Jatco design not being great?
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Mason Hatcher

You're saying that acceleration only happens in what you describe as overdrive?

compyelc4

I gotta ask you, why do you feel you need a Pedal Commander when this CVT provides instant acceleration at any speed? You are messing with a totally different animal here when compared to the typical slush bucket.
1. "...Nissan programming the PCU to keep rpms low to protect the cvt. I think that's what's happening." Yes, protection for longevity as well as mpg from that 300hp, which is reaching the limits of cvt capability to handle gobs of torque. I think you will see stump-pulling V6's start to disappear as they are replaced with turbo 4-bangers, which, by the way, are very disappointing in the mpg dept when compared to advertised mpg! To get the mpg back of overworked turbo'd 4-bangers, yes, I see the industry going more and more to the CVT. I mean everyone. Then you'll see the CVT get beefed up for longevity to keep up with the torque these 4-bangers will surely provide.
2. "When I turn off the PC I'm getting really good mileage. It's the best of both worlds." Yes, exactly as Nissan engineers intended.
3. " I'm a bit worried about the life expectancy." You should be, experimenting with this $300 current potentiometer! Save this experimentation for the huge 1500 snail take-off trucks with tough as nails trannies.
4. "It's almost hard to take advantage of the PC because it seems like the PC and PCU are fighting each other." They certainly are, by Nissan circuit design.
5. I really respect your determination and inquisitiveness to study the CVT to such a degree that your head swarms and keeps you up. I've been there myself! Slow down, get a grip, and just enjoy the ride. Unless you are a well-paid CVT or automotive engineer driven to improve the CVT system, leave the headaches and sleepless nights to those guys........or find a way to get into their career path, pass them all up, and come up with a more sturdy, quicker-responding CVT design of your own. Dump the PC and just use as much of your foot as you want and let the CVT do its thing. That, or buy a C8 ZR1 mid-engine Corvette.

Good luck in your research and future automotive endeavors, either paid or just for fun. Now get to bed.

Bigbob0002

Hey someone is actually reading my posts. Lol. Always welcome discussion. Thanks for the responses.

@compyelc4 Some quick background on me. 4 months ago I had a '99 bulletproof Altima. This thing fired up every time. 210k miles. Unfortunately where I live they salt the roads in winter... Body rotting out... Wouldn't pass inspection.

We have a' 12 Altima. Cvt started overheating/limp mode. We paid $3,900 to put a remanufactured cvt in.

I knew the '99 wouldn't pass inspection so I traded it in, for a' 13 Maxima, with a cvt. People asked if I was crazy. The transmission shop was funny. She made a joke and said "you're family now. WHY WOULD YOU BUY A CVT?" I responded that we got 163k miles out of our last cvt, in stop and go, w/o changing the fluid. That's pretty impressive imo. Now I obviously want to understand the flaws for basic knowledge & preventative maintenance.

Plus I still love Nissan and think they'll figure this out.

To answer your question. My buddy talked me into getting the PC and I figured a combined $800 for mufflers and Pc isn't bad to have a little fun with the car. I wasn't planning on any more mods.

Also you made a joke about getting a Corvette. What I'm saying is I think a v6 with a cvt is very capable of being damn fast. Provided the cvt doesn't implode on itself. I would love to see that Corvette partnered with a sturdy cvt.

@Mason Hatcher I see what it sounds like I'm saying.

My Max runs like this. Rough estimates:
-2,000 rpms up to 15 mph.
-Drops down to about 1,500 rpms until 30 mph
-Then it let's me crank it up to 3,000+ rpms

I'd almost have to pump the gas to wake it up and get it cranking before I hit 30-35 mph. The car is obviously accelerating but it's trying to do it slowly. Until it gets to a certain mph and then it kind of says "ok, have fun". Once at 30 mph I feel like as soon as I push down on the gas the engine starts cranking.

That's why most drag videos on YouTube are from a roll.

The '12 Altima does it too so I'm pretty sure it's by design. "keeping it at optimal rpms" idea. It's kind of how the "jerking during acceleration" complaints originated on early cvts. I think.
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This topic entirely originated out of what the vehicle does when I hit the gas with and without the PC. ​​I would absolutely love if some other Pedal Commander owners could share if their experience is the same.

With the Pedal Commander the whole feel of the vehicle changes and it made me realize that the tranny is capable of accelerating at 3k rpms immediately but the stock car doesn't seem to want to do that.

For the record I've used the PC for a grand total of 15 seconds in the last 8 days. I'm too scared to use it.

robtroxel

Very thoughtful posts here. I am not familiar with the "Pedal Commander" but given what I read here, it is going against what a CVT does best. In my life, MPGs is more important than fast MPH. I will say though, with a concerted effort, I can get up to speed when needed. The question, its, how often do you drive like that? I get it that the "boy racers" do it a lot but this may not be the car to start with if that is a priority.

wild willy

iTrader: (10)

I agree with this...How often do you do this? In my case, hardly ever....The quietness and smoothness of the VQ is the best part....Knowing that the power is there....Just in case..Is good enough for me...I do not need to beat the **** out of a car......Once in a while....put the hammer down...If stop light to stop light is what you are looking for...any nissan with a CVT is NOT your car. Get a Camaro or a mustang

Bigbob0002

Sorry for not responding sooner.

I think some clarification on the Pedal Commander and what it does may help to answer the above 2 posts. The PC has 32 sensitivity settings. On the most sensitive setting I could push the gas pedal down 10% and the engine would Rev up to 5,000 rpms. The tires would spin a little and the car would go crazy. I would speed down my street, get to the stop sign, no one's coming: good, let's crank it out of the neighborhood. I think that's what you are perceiving me trying to do. That would be comical actually. That would also be on par with your mustangs and camaros, or rather the same "feel".

I joked with my buddy that on the lowest setting it would be basically an anti theft system. If someone got the car started, they'd put the pedal to the floor and it would Rev up to only 300 rpms and do 0-60 in 4.5 min.

The idea is to find a setting you like. I tried it where I pushed about half way down with the pedal and it went up to 3,500 rpms and I didn't like it. Too much power. I dropped it down to where I press half way down and it goes up to 3,300 rpms. Still too much power for a daily driver.

I dropped the PC down to where I press it half way down and it should go to 3,000 rpms. In theory I should be able to press 1/4 down and it goes to 2,200 rpms. I press half way it goes to 3,000 rpms. Something like that. I would get some additional power but nothing too crazy. Then turn off the PC and let the cvt do it's normal thing during the week. I would only use this slight boost in power once/week maybe.

The ultimate main point I've been trying to make is as there are technological advances on cvts in general, I think they should be able to bolt up to camaros, mustangs and infinitis and be faster than standards and automatics, while still providing great economy.
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When the PC makes it Rev up to 4-5k rpms and just stay there. No shifting. I came to a realization. The performance guys should be begging for these things. Dodge should try to make a jacked cvt for the Charger. Ford should be trying to beat Dodge by making one for the Mustang first. Nissan has a leg up because they're learning the tech to make improvements and put them in Infinitis.

There's a reason these things were banned from Formula 1. I kind of "get it" now.

Likewise they're great for mileage. It really is the best of both worlds.

I hope I'm explaining my thoughts correctly. I'm sure some people will disagree with me.

robtroxel

Helps me understand where you are coming from. What does this unit cost?

Fishlet

Bigbob0002

I got the Pedal Commander for $330 on sale and it's Blu tooth. It's tucked under the dash and I can connect my phone.

Obviously I'm hesitant to recommend it because as I mentioned in the 1st post, the PC is trying to get it up to 3,000 rpms and the on board PC is trying to keep it at 1,500 until a certain speed. They kind of fight each other and it is hard to get the car to respond and immediately go to where I want regarding throttle response. Unless I set the PC to higher sensitivities and then it's overriding the on board stuff right away but that is way too much wear on the drive train for my tastes.

They do have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and they are sold through their site and Amazon if you wanted to see reviews.

On a different subject I've been emailing various companies looking for an after market transmission cooler. This is something some people might be interested regardless of how you drive your car. I'll share what I find out.

Talked to my local transmission shop and they talked to Nissan who said it is already cooled through the radiator. Apparently cvts in Europe get dedicated cvt coolers but in the US they don't. I want to understand the pros and cons of having one of these coolers. I hate to be pessimistic but the transmission shop is not as motivated to push for a cooler since the last time one died I gave them $3,900 for a replacement.

compyelc4

Fishlet, I was just thinking the same thing. My other thought is that Nissan went into a great amount of engineering studies and testing to make sure that their fly-by-wire
transmitter/receiver accelerator system is foolproof. Can you imagine being in traffic about 3 ft from the rear bumper of another vehicle, god forbid a cyclist, and having your PC screw up and open up at full throttle.

punkfs

ive had a pedal commander for a while now and love it, zero issues.

Bigbob0002

Mind if I ask 3 questions?
1. Are you a cvt?
2. What setting do you use?
3. What do you think of Sport + if you've tried it?

I'm wondering if your experience is similar to mine?
​

punkfs

1) yes
2) I currently use the cars sport mode with pedal commander regular sport mode +2 for daily
3) I've used sport + a few times I find it way too touchy for me, easy to spin the tires.

after using it for a while and turning it off, the car feels so dead. well worth the money imo

Lemonhawk

Hmm! I'm having a hard time trying to understand how PC commander could ever help, other than disabling any warranty you might have on the drive train. It looks to me that it revs the engine up then dumps all the power thru the torque converter or in the case of the CVT it's going to dump all the power into the belts in the CVT. How is this a good idea?

Tony Two-Tone

While I'm not a huge fan of CVTs, they do have a ton of potential. I watched the video of that F1 car that had one waaay back in the day. That was very impressive.

Fishlet

Bigbob0002

I originally created the topic to share my thoughts on the cvt. Then I decided to try and decipher the problems these transmissions are having and why. More for personal reasons and preventative maintenance.

I think looking at class action lawsuits can be pretty revealing. Particularly since lawyers will do research and know specifics of what they believe they can or cannot sue for. I will make more sense at the end of this post.

Norman, WeckWerth, Wescott et.al. v. Nissan North America, Inc
-2013-17 Versa, Versa Note, Juke
-Jerking and lag during acceleration, hard deceleration, complete failure, limp mode

U Can Rent llc et.al. v. Nissan North America, Inc
-2013 Sentra, 2013-14 Juke
-Jerking and lag during acceleration, stop suddenly

Batista et.al. v. Nissan North America, Inc
-2013-14 Pathfinder, Infiniti JX35
-Shaking during acceleration

Falk, Jayavelu, Cruz, Trotter, Macri et.al. v. Nissan North America, Inc
-2013-Present Sentra
-Jerking during acceleration, hard deceleration, loss of power on freeway

Leyva proposed lawsuit
-2012-17 Sentra
-Limp mode, overheating, shaking during acceleration

Mendelsohn Law seeking candidates
-Looking for Sentra and Rogue owners
-Premature failing

Costa et.al. v. Nissan North America, Inc
-2013-14 Altimas
-Jerking during acceleration, stalling, over heating, premature failing

I have 3 key takeaways.
1. I couldn't find Maxima's listed in the lawsuits I looked at. I've heard that Maxima's have stronger cvts and at a minimum they don't seem to be a problem for mass failure.

2. Altima is only listed once and it's '13-14. I posted above that my' 12 Altima needed a new cvt. I contacted the firm to ask why, because I wonder if something changed from '12 to '13 manufacturing that makes the legal firm less interested in a cvt 1 year older.

3. All of these problems in these lawsuits are I'm pretty sure brought on by belt slippage which happens from over heating. The tranny fluid overheats and loses viscosity. This means less lubrication on the pullies which causes belt slippage.

Sorry long post. I found this channel FastReligion. He works for Nissan and seems to live Nissan cvt. This 15 min video is a summary of this entire topic.

https://youtu.be/jnkplutrJR0

Check the comments. He confirms not seeing too many Maxima and sort of says that the Max cvts are more durable. One guy kept asking the same question. He also mentions heat and quick wind up of torque to destroy these tranny.

Fishlet

Bigbob0002

I see what FastReligion is saying. It's sudden bursts of torque that the cvt doesn't like as opposed to slowly applying torque. Looking back at post 5, when the engine revs and spins the primary pulley the secondary pulley should move at the same time & speed.

If you Rev it real quick the primary pulley rotates at a different speed very quickly. It pushes the belt and the secondary pulley needs to "catch" right away. If you're pumping on the gas and the tachometer is flying up and down, the secondary pulley needs to keep spinning up in rotation like the primary pulley is but it can't react quick enough.

Now I realize it's not how fast you shift everything through the system but rather sudden changes or snaps in torque. That's why the on board computer is fighting the Pedal Commander because Nissan doesn't want us to quickly get those changes in rpms.

It's not as bad to slowly get to 4,500 rpms and stay there as it is to go up to 3k, down to 1,500, back up to 3k. This is why these tranny experts say stop and go is suicide for these cars. Plus the tranny temp getting too high.
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Interesting. I'm not sure what you do about this. I wonder if you could have the engine rotate both pullies and.... I'll be thinking about this at 3am. Crap.

For anyone that wants a really, extremely well done video of how these cvts work it is this. It's really clear what's happening.

https://youtu.be/xHWqlfDZnmQ

Bigbob0002

I'll keep posting as I find info.

I believe that the belt slipping is the cause. Pulley alignment is the problem. As the belt slips, even for a fraction of a second, it causes one pulley to open as it should, but the other pulley isn't responding. It's a problem by design of the belt being the only thing that opens and closes the secondary pulley. You might end up back at Park with the primary pulley open 100% and the secondary pulley closed only 97%.

I was wondering if there was a way to give the secondary pulley it's own dedicated pump and make it spring loaded. That way when the belt starts slipping on the secondary pulley the pump can increase/decrease pressure and some of the shifting is done by the secondary pump/spring system instead of just the belt.

The only real problem I see there is when the engine is off both springs would be trying to open their respective pullies, which is a big no no. However I'm not sure if just the spring tension is going to really mess up the belt or pulley alignment. I'm looking for a belt/chain that could handle the insane torque of a 500+ hp engine so I don't think the springs would be a huge issue.

OK some links.
https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/release/2018/20180423_924.html

"2009
Production of Jatco CVT7(JF015E) with world’s first auxiliary gearbox for mini and small vehicles, starts
2012
Production of Jatco CVT8(JF016E/JF017E) for mid to large sized vehicles starts
2015
Production of Jatco CVT7 W/R(JF020E) with auxiliary gearbox for small vehicles, starts"

I'm pretty sure that cvt8 is in my 13 maxima and it's a stronger tranny. I'm reading about stronger oil pumps, pullies and most importantly a chain belt instead of steel. I'm still having a b**** of a time to figure out what specific changes happened when.

https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/release/2015/20151013_574.html

"The newly developed Jatco CVT7 W/R provides further enhanced driving performance by utilizing technologies such as active slip control to prevent excessive engine pick-up response when starting off and D-step(Dynamic Step-Shift) control to provide a sportier driving experience. Using newly developed new belts and improved pulleys, the world’s largest CVT ratio coverage of 8.7 is realized. Friction is reduced by adapting an enhanced small-sized oil pump, and fuel efficiency is improved accordingly. "

Bigbob0002

I'm the only 1 posting anymore. I assume I wore out my welcome?

https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/release/2013/20130517_351.html

According to this 2013 press release from Jatco there are 3 versions of the cvt8. One for medium Fwd vehicles, one for hybrids, and one for high torque applications. I am interested in the high torque CVT8HT, or RE0F10E.

Below are links to 2 articles by Gears magazine that show a very thorough breakdown of these transmissions. Gears magazine is published by Atra. Atra is the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association.
​​​
The 1st link is a detailed breakdown of the CVT7, or a less durable Nissan cvt8. They even show a breakdown of the parts comprising the pullies.

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/ins-outs-re0f08b-jatco-cvt/

The 2nd link is the CVT8HT. It just looks more durable.

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/something-new-just-got-easier/

Some notable differences I picked up:
-The chain pulley.
-The plastic guides. Not entirely sure what purpose they serve. They borrowed the idea from Subaru. If these guides move then I can certainly see the value. They do seem to hold the sprayers that lubricate the chain.
-It sprays transmission fluid directly on the belt instead of on the pullies.

Now I have a clearer picture of what Jatco has done to make stronger cvts based on this post and the last post.

compyelc4

You have certainly not worn out your welcome Bigbob! It is my opinion that you are getting into this WAY more than the average guy/gal on here wants to go. No offense meant and I don't want to demean anyone using this site, as I speak for myself. I'm an engineer and love your enthusiasm and research on the CVT, and I can understand what you are saying, but that said, you might get better response from an actual CVT technician or engineer. There is one site I go to every once in a while tagged Engineering Explained. Regarding what you are researching with the CVT some of his audience may be more interested in your detailed research. PS- If you look, you will see that a boatload of folks are "hitting" your thread. Lack of responses might be the "over our heads" or "just not into this" thing.
Peace man.

Fishlet

Bigbob0002

Thanks guys. I'll probably check out that other site too. Appreciate letting me know.

robtroxel

Always learning so while I get a lot of what you are posting there is some info above my pay grade. That said, I like the challenge of thinking about what has been written.

Vision5182

@BigBob so is the PC then just holding the RPM at whatever you're setting it to and letting the car continuously accelerate without any of the programmed "shift" points?
It sounds like it's making the cvt perform for optimal performance without any of the weird fake shifting added in to make people accept it as a normal transmission.

Bigbob0002

Sorry I just saw this. OK, so this is how I see it. I did a performance chip in a Chevy almost 20 years ago and it was just throttle response. It's simply changing how quickly the engine reacts when you push down on the gas peddle.

Regular automatic :
- I press the pedal down 10% and 1/2 a second later it goes up to 1,000 rpms
- I push the peddle down 25% and 1/2 second later it goes up to 2,500 rpms
- I push the peddle to the floor and 1/2 second later it goes up to 5,000 rpms

Regular automatic with some kind of chip/peddlecommander:
​- I press the peddle down 10% and it immediately goes to 1,000 rpms
- I push the peddle down 25% and it immediately goes to 2,500 rpms
- I push the peddle down to the floor and it immediately goes to 5,000 rpms

It does the same performance but it eliminates the 1/2 second delay.

It's the feeling of being able to hit the gas and immediately the car jumps to life. It's even more evident with good exhaust. Lay off the gas and the car slows down. Hit the gas and immediately you feel the car moving forward. Come to a stop sign, hit the gas and immediately hear the tires chirp a little. See another car, lay off and feel the drop in acceleration. The other car isn't going to cut you off so you hit the gas and feel that throw back in the seat. It's the quick stop-go feeling.

My Nissan cvt experience. Maybe others with a cvt Max can say if they feel this?
- I push the peddle down 25%. I don't adjust my pressure on the peddle at all. With my foot steady on the peddle it revs up to about 2,000 rpms until a certain speed. Then without me adjusting pressure it drops down to 1,500 and just stays there. It's making these changes without the driver adjusting peddle pressure.
- At that point I can push the peddle down 30%, or 40% and it very slowly increases rpms to 2,300 or so. I push it down 50% and it does the same thing. Just a very steady, slow increase in rpms. It's not just a 1/2 second throttle delay. It recognizes that you're pushing the peddle down more but eases up the rpms. It's a feel very similar to an automatic in overdrive, but it starts at an earlier mph.
​​​​​- If I push the peddle down 75% the computer says "ok, you want some power?" and it revs up to 3,500 or more rpms and it feels descent bc the Max has a good engine. Coming out of overdrive is a really good analogy.

With the Peddlecommander on and especially on more sensitive settings it overrides this weird mini overdrive thing. I hit the gas and it just starts cranking right away. Maybe up to 4,500 rpms. The tires are screaching a little. The Magnaflows are doing their thing.

I let off the gas and can feel the car let off, hit it again and am immediately thrown back in the seat. It's not as fast as a Mustang since it's not a v8, but it sure has that in your seat stop-go feel to it.

​​My main original point was that I now realize that a cvt is capable of throwing you back in the seat. People call them "soulless" but I don't think they are. People are getting that perspective when they rent or test drive one and the car isn't really reacting to how much you are pressing down on the gas, but more to the computer controlling rpms.

When you get this feel of stop-go and quick responsiveness, AND if you want you can Rev up to 4,500 and just stay there, it doesn't feel soulless. It feels responsive, and like a natural evolution from a performance perspective.

This mini overdrive thing isn't because the cvt isn't capable of fact acceleration. It's likely there partly for fleet mileage and efficiency in general. It's probably also there to try and prevent people from constantly doing this stop-go, "street racer" style driving.

MaxMus

So why doesn't Nissan offer a S**t your pants mode with their CVT's on premium sports cars like the Maxima? That would put an end to the gutless CVT people keep talking about. Just popup a notice saying this would void your warranty.

Fishlet