lex4style

iTrader: (5)

Alright im thinking of going all motor now. I want to see how much i can add into my car without putting in a turbo or SC. If i install the following in my car. How much HP do u think i will run? And what else could I add to get more hp and torque? I want to push atleast 250ish hp. So whatever else u guys think i need to add...lemme know.Thanks - Ray

MEVI
Headers
Y-Pipe
ECU Upgrade
Cold Air Intake

Jason R

iTrader: (39)

i hope those numbers aren't what you are hoping to put down to the wheels...

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Even I am having trouble passing 250whp without it being cold outside.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Cattman said with the full setup (including headers and CAI) you should go from a baseline dyno of about 157-161 to somewhere in the 187-195 hp at the wheels. Add another 10 hp of peak hp for the Mevi and perhaps (guess) another 10hp of peak for the ECU. That should put you around 205-215 at the wheels, which is what 2k2's dyno so that's relatively close to 250hp. I do hope you got the money though.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Also, some people are going to dissagree with me but IMO you're better off using the '00 VI instead of the MEVI. It makes a little more low end and a little more high end. The install is much more complex though.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

An MEVI adds little or no peak power and the the larges part of the ECU's gain is not at peak either.

Cattman Headers
MEVI
JWT ECU
Intake

I was at 185/184

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Mike and I had identical numbers, different machines though. You are going to be lucky to break 200whp with the mods you listed.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

This is really just bolt on talk anyhow

Jason R

iTrader: (39)

I put down numbers in the mid-190's and I still have stock USIM.

95maxrider

iTrader: (32)

If you're searching for the last few NA HP, get the 70 mm PF TB, a cat-back/cut out and an UDP. After that.....? That should put a manual 4th gen over 200 whp and with a little more luck you can hit 212 whp which = 250 chp.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

The PF TB hasn't actually been proven to give gains yet.

sagamax

iTrader: (5)

what about the q45 tb

95maxrider

iTrader: (32)

From what I remember reading, getting the Q45 TB to fit would be much more difficult than the PF one, but I could be wrong. For any NA Maxima, the 70 mm PF TB should be more than enough. Nobody has shown back to back dynos of the results of the PF TB, but there's no reason why with the MEVI/ECU the TB wouldn't show gains. They may be miniscule, but if you want to squeeze every HP out of the engine, I think the PF TB is a legitimate way of doing so.

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

Send me a PM sometime and we can meet up, we live in the same town now.

Jason R

iTrader: (39)

I will eventually have a back to back dyno with and without the PF TB.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Sweet DooD.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

I have everything on my known to man except for headers, flywheel and cams....and I dynoed at 202whp....on an engine with 133K miles and a slightly warped flywheel with original injectors and original coil packs....so it can be done! with a 27% correction factor according to the dyno operator...that puts me at about 256 crank hp or so... so 3.5L territory....not bad....considering we 4th gens are lighter too!

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

27% is a FAR stretch.

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

Your numbers aren't from a dynojet though I don't believe, so they can't be compared.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

27% is a stretch is a understatement!

Funny. He has "256hp" but got beat by a near stock 3-gen VE.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

that was way b4 this dyno....and after i fixed many things that I didn't know was wrong with the car....in addition, I raced the third gen with about 200lbs in my trunk....(V1 S/C kit, and tool kit) which evened out our weight....which i did mention in that old thread that jeff92se is referring to...

I saw 27% right on the monitor myself....the guy explained it to me..., 27% loss from flywheel to whp....which includes: auxilary systems (belt driven components), tranny loss, diff loss, axle loss, wheel loss (including brake rotors which have to spin, cv's, and wheel hub/bearings, clutch loss...

that race by the way was a 4K to stock redline in 3rd gear pull only, couldn't see what happened in the race, but it was very close initially, then I think it was 1 maybe 2 car lengths at redline, couldn't really look back at those speeds if you know what I mean....haven't raced him since I replaced many things and bumped up my mevi switchover which was way too low and took out the S/C kit out of my trunk....it's the V1 kit, so the V1 and it's steel backing plate plus pulley is worth alone 40-50lbs....and not to mention all the other accessories and tubing...(BOV, fuel pump, fuel lines, power steering cooler, air filter, vacuum hosing, nuts and bolts, etc.)

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Um 27% is a stretch period. Even automatics won't even claim more than about 20%. All the 27% does is overestimated your results and make the ricers feel better.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

If i use this 27% nonsense I can say I make 316 crank hp. Oh wait, I have a 6 speed which has 3 more constant mesh gears than the old 5 speed. So that should make mine about 30% or more. Yes yes, I have 324 crank hp.

white m3 guy

iTrader: (6)

give me a good price on your sc setup ill take it

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

well.....when people ask how much power I make, I almost never tell them crank #'s anyway....cause those are useless #'s in my book....I almost always tell them my wheel #'s...so then I guess the 27% doesn't matter...

but however all of this got me curious....so I did some research with cartest....cartest only excepts crank #'s....on average, a 4th gen 5spd with all the mods I have runs a 13.8 as a best case scenario, and a 14.5 as a worst case....but on average a 14.2 with a good 60' is what they run...the only way I get a 14.2 under cartest is with 201.9whp *1.27 which gives me 256 crank hp as the dyno operator told me....and it works out in cartest to equal a 14.2 1/4 mile....odd that the #'s from the dyno and the 27% correction equal that of a 1/4 mile time almost every maxima with my exact mods run with a good 60' and reaction time....all of which cartest can only do (a good 60' b/c it optimizes the launch till it's near perfect)...which lead me to believe that for all those 4th gens out there to be running such good 1/4 mile times, it would take around 250 crank hp or so....or about 190-200whp...something to think about even though cartest is not the best software, it has been shown on countless occassions to produce accurate #'s....in fact find all the stats on any new car that is currently not in cartests database, add it, and compare it to the 0-60 and 1/4 times the magazines get and you will find how incredibly close the #'s are!! almost makes me think the magazine don't actually run the cars and just calculate everything....lol

95maxrider

iTrader: (32)

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get Cartest from, and how much did you pay for it?
I think the dyno guy was confused. To get your crank HP with a manual just multiply the whp by 1.19 or so, not 1.27. Lets say a stock Max puts down 160 to the wheels. 160x1.19=190
160x1.27=203

1.27 just doesn't work.....just to let you know.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

a stock max can put down 160whp??? that is kinda high....I always thought they put down more like 150 or 155 stock...

cartest....you can get the dos version for free:
http://www.cartestsoftware.com/carte...ds/cartest.exe

the newer windows version you have to purchase....

if i were to multiply my whp by 1.19 for example, I would get 240 crank hp....putting that in to cartest along with all the other stats and tq #'s I would only get a 14.5 1/4 and that is with the best possible launch....so why are those with the exact same mods and dyno #'s putting down 14.2 with 2.2 60's?

not saying your wrong, now I am confused...I'll call up the dyno place and ask the guy...maybe I miss understood....but the #'s work out....which still leaves me confused...

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Geez, a couple things

1) 27% drivetrain loss is pure idiocy, even automatics with high *** stall converters don't lose the much. Don't trust a frickin thing that dyno operator said if he really told you that.
2) A stock 5spd puts down between 160 and 165whp, autos put down 150-155
3) Cartest can use wheel horsepower numbers I do it all the time, in fact for ACCURATE acceleration modeling this is the ONLY method I use, crank numbers and the default power curves cartest makes by using just peak crank numbers are ludicrous.
4) No bolt on 4th gen is making 250hp at the crank, period
5) I have my car modeled to the hundredth of a second and the tenth of a mph in cartest using 185whp and 175wtq and the exact hp #s at each 500rpm increment.
6) The accepted and accurate drivetrain loss for a 5spd car is 15%, 19% is auto territory (actually autos are more like 20-22% but its close)
7) I hate to be harsh but you aren't making close to 250hp at the crank. You would be lucky to be making 230 at the crank

The end

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Oh and one more thing, all the talk people do about dyno numbers and crank hp numbers etc is all BS anyways. You can't compare from machine to machine because they all read differently, different dyno TYPEs read differently, etc. I've got mediocre "dyno" numbers and yet my car was faster, and in many cases significantly faster, than other cars putting down supposedly superior hp numbers, so unless you live your life on a dyno, don't put your faith in dyno numbers anyways. Get to the track.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

well nealoc..what 1/4 with all the cartest input are you getting in cartest...just curious how it compares to your real 1/4 on street tires of course since that's all cartest can model....if you look at the #'s car test uses...they are crank #'s....go into NISSAN MAXIMA 1995 SE for example...and what does the file say that came from the developer of the program??? 190hp 205tq....so the program uses crank #'s I believe....even more scary is that when you run the test for a stock maxima 5spd, you get a 15.2 1/4...which is exactly what motor trend got in the test they did back in 1995/96...

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

so I just called the guy and found out that I miss understood him....he cleared it up....

however, what still confuses me is how the only way I can get a low 14 second 1/4 like my mods/dyno #'s suggest, is by putting in 250 hp or so into cartest....???!?!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Cartest is much more powerful and accurate than you are giving it credit for. Go to File, and then down to create model specific parameters. You can specify everything under the sun. Driver weight, wheel weight, various HP curve and calculation methods including wheelhp at 500rpm increments from idle to like 15,000rpm. You can specify wind conditions, shift points, shift methods, shift times, clutch engagement times, torque converter slack, turbo spoolup, etc etc etc. There are probably 150 parameters on the "create model specific parameters" page then I think you are overlooking. About the only thing I pay attentnion to on the first page is the car weight, gear ratios, and drive type (you can simulate slicks on a FWD car darn near exactly by switching a FWD car to AWD calculation method). The way to get realistic results is to use a dyno plot to plot the HP at each RPM level, and adjust the coefficient of static friction to produce a realistic 60' time.

I have tons of custom car files if you'd like me to send them to you I'd be happy to. Cartest is really fun to use when you get into all the parameters you can play with.

Like I said I have my 1/4 mile times in various stages of modification modeled down to the fraction of a second and fraction of a mph using my real dyno numbers, car weight, and realistic parameters. From there you can guage what certain mods would do for you, etc.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

my e-mail addy is michaelnyden@yahoo.com

I would love to have a more complete catalog file than i currently have....haven't really had the time to add too many cars...

so the cartest #'s are almost identical to you real #'s?

that was my point, cartest is very accurate....when I compare hp to 1/4 mile times from magazines and such...read my example above regarding stock the stock maxima....but why is that with only 230 crank hp put in, I get high 14's (which is optimized by cartest), but when I compare my dyno to other maximas and look at their real world 1/4 runs...they are running anywhere from 13.8-14.2.....is the crank hp #'s I am putting in too low for my car?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I will get the computer up and running that has my cartest files on it and send them to you. It has a ton of accurately modeled, modified cars and motorcycles (even a few go-karts).

The two main parameters that I have found affect the accuracy of 1/4 mile times in that program are the coefficient of static friction (which is set at 1.0 by default, I find 1.3 or so to be more accurate) and the shift times. Cartest uses very slow shift times. The typical shift time and clutch engagement time is .5 seconds and .3 seconds I think, which results in a total time of .8 seconds between gears. That's rediculously slow. Realistic shift times are more on the order of .3 to .4 seconds for people who can really shift well. I generally use a .3 second shift time and .15 second engagement time in the program.

A good way to judge if you are accurately modeling the shift times and coefficient of static friction is to use the stock maxima 5 spd model, and adjust those to about the values I indicated, and come up with about a 14.9 @ 92.5mph with a 2.20 60'. That is a realistic 1/4 mile time for a well launched, well shifted, good working condition 4th gen at a decent track on a decent day. If you can get that model right you can start adding power from there to simulate mods, etc.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

ALL BOLT ONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So locked.... to the dyno discussion.... wrong forum