Big headache here (3.5 swap). Anybody's help appreciated (Tilley, SR20DEN.
 

Okay I don't have any pictures, my scanner doesn't work and I'm too bummed to take some.

Basically the 3.5 is bolted in with the headers and the rest of the Cattman exhaust. Fits fine. I spent all day getting increasingly pissed at myself for dumping so much cash and time into this.

Now comes the sh*tty part. I got most wiring harnesses from a 02 Altima, as the engine, the ignition switch and the engine itself, all come from a 02 Altima.

I don't want to spend anymore money on this, so I am thinking of selling the wiring harness and the 3.5 Altima ECU or getting a refund (If I can). I think some modules are missing and I don't have the wiring for the sunroof and power doors.

Not only that, but the 2002 Altima E-Gas pedal will need some custom fab to place it, as it's so oddly made I can't even bolt it to the floor without it being placed so oddly that I'll be seated like a blind moron with the steering wheel glued to the chest. I would really much rather keep my 95 pedal and convert to a cable TB which brings me to seriously consider ditching the 3.5 2002 ECU.

After f*cking around with the wiring for the entire day, I feel like setting the whole damn car on fire :mad:

I am seriously considering Tilley's method for the swap, but I am not positive I understand everything that needs to be done to make the car work.

If I do it Tilley's way (Full 3.5 with 3.0 ECU), I don't have the rewire the entire car, reprogram the ignition switch/key, immobilizer and ECU for all three to match to start the car (All three come from different cars), my airbags will work, I won't have to rewire stuff around the engine bay, trunk, steering column, dash, ect, ect, ect. Only the engine would need to be rewired.

I've already dropped enough cash in this, made some stupid decisions, and just want the f*cking car to start so I can hear that VQ35DE running already.

There is no moron-proof guide to success (no easy jokes)... and no "I told you so"'s, I'm already bummed enough about this as it is. I know most sensors (if not all) from the 3.5 will work on the 3.0 ecu/wiring harness.

What about the Cam sensors? There are two on the 3.5 but seemed to only have one on the 3.0.

Also what's up with the timing chain? Do I have to use the whole timing chain sassembly off the 3.0? (Gears, chain, cover)? I know Tilley's using this but could not tell how much he took off the 3.0 to put on the 3.5 to make it work.

What about the cams? Do I simply leave the VQ35DE cams in as they are? Someone mentioned something about having issues about timing in another thread. Did Tilley have to open the heads up to make it work?

CPS is from the 3.5 but it's from a 02 Altima, which uses the same 5-speed tranny I have in my car. Anything I'm missing?

Honestly I would rather complete my full 3.5 swap, but I don't think simply using my 95 BCM is possible, and tearing that interior apart was the final straw in my decision. Should I keep going full 3.5 with ecu or run it off 3.0 Ecu and save myself some money by getting a refund on those parts/selling them? :help:

How connected is the engine management wires to the rest of the car's functions? ie.. ac/radio/wipers/lights and the other mundane stuff? Are you trying to swap the entire Altima harness to the maxima? That would be tough.

Long shot idea:

Try to use as much of the 4-gen harness as you can. ie.. everything BUT the engine.

Then try to seperate out JUST the engine/ecu/ign key functions out from the Altima harness. The trick being what to do with the 3.5 harness to get the 4-gen guages to read right.

You won't be able to figure out the Altima harness in just one day. I think you might end up having to identify each and every wire 1st on the Altima ecu outputs and start from there. Then you will be able to identify exactly what the 3.5 needs to see in order to run. ie.. ign, crank/cam sensors, temp, maf, speedo, ks, vtc, coil, blah..blah..

The main harness goes from the engine/transmission through the middle of the firewall and ends with a Plug for the ECU. That specific harness controls both engine and transmission together. It is already plugged from all the sensors on the engine to the ECU itself.

That's the ECU plug:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...696_7_full.jpg

All of the boxes/lights/radiator fan and that sh*t in the engine is on a different harness that passes on the driver's side and goes through the firewall next to the driver door junction.



My idea was to convert from E-gas to cable controlled TB to NOT use the 2k2 driver-by-wire crap. I would MUCH rather have a cable controlled TB than have to f*ck around fabing a bracket for that plastic/electronic pedal and then have it lag like it needs viagra.

Then, use EVERYTHING else from the 1995. That way, I don't have to gut my interior and figure out all the power window/lock/sunroof wiring crap.

Another problem is that the 02 needs to see the immobilizer and the ignition switch from the 02 in order to start the car, which complicates things -

I am going with Tilley's way: 3.0 timing covers, chain, oil pan, and 3.5 cams.

The 3.5 cams will have to be sent in to be drilled, and I will have to buy some spacers off of Tilley.

The TB I converted to cable already, you saw the thread already, extremely easy.

All the sensors used are 4th gen. The 1 cam sensor on the timing cover is the one used. The 2 other you can leave there.

There is always my way. Virgin VQ35 managed by A32 ECU etc.

Swapping over the entire wiring harness may not be worth the effort. I might consider a duel ECU setup before I attempted that.

'Virgin' as in full 3.5 including the timing chain and cams from 3.5?

I.E. simply plug all the 4th gen wires into the 3.5 sensors (and transmission) and leaving the cams and timing ring as they are? Is that the simplest way? At this point I just want the thing to work, even if I loose VTC's.

As for the dual ECU's, do you think the 2k2 Ecu would work even if I converted from E-Gas to drive-by-wire.

Nismo, why do you have to drill the cams? To correspond with the timing right?

'Virgin' as in not touched at all on the inside, stock cams, chain, VTCs. But you still have to dress it correctly on the outside to work.

^ What would you do with the cam position sensor that the 4th gens have to have? (located on 4th gen timing cover)

I guess the dowel pin hole doesnt line up with the 4th gen cam gear.

2002 VQ35DE's have two cam position sensors (one on each heads, and on the wrong side of the engine compared to the 4th gen). I am interested to see what becomes of the cam sensors. I think he means that you use the wires that go the cam sensor, but direct them toward the 2 3.5 cam sensors. I will verify how many wires these have.

The sensors seem similar (between 3.5 and 3.0) in that they at least have the same number of wires going to them. Well, most of them...

A new timing template has to be made for it to read.

^ Got pics?

How do you control the vtcs when the A32 ecu has no provision for it? Seperately?

You don't. No VTCs=cams stay at 240 degrees all the time, instead of 205-275.

SR, do you think keeping the 3.5 timing chain/cams will give better results than what Tilley did (3.0 timing chain/drilled 3.5 cams)?

Then what's the point of having them?

That was the entire point of trying to run it off the 2002 ECU. But since it appears like too much work (Unless the dual ECU method works). I'll likely keep them that way. Besides, aftermarket cams like the Tomei replace stay at 268 degrees, no VTC working.

Ideally I would go with the Dual ECU method, since you get the best of both worlds (working VTC's and not having to rewire the entire car). Unfortunately there are alot of problems (two big ones) when dealing with 2 ECUs.

1st- The 02 ECU needs to see the vehicle immobilizer and the ignition switch from a 02. All three (Ecu, immu, and key) are not from the very same car, so I need to get them all reprogrammed at the dealer in order to start the car. Not only that, but I don't have a 02 steering column, and figuring it all out seems like alot of fun.

2nd- E-Gas. I don't know if the 02 ECU would still work with a cable-driven TB. Not only do I hate E-Gas (lag, lag, lag), but I would need a bracket for the gas pedal to be placed reasonably, and it's connected to the biggest, most obnoxious wiring harness I've ever seen. So ideally, I simply convert from E-gas to cable-drive.

Does anyone see any reason why the 2002 ECU wouldn't work with a cable driven TB as opposed to the drive-by-wire TB that it's supposed to have?

I don't he has any, since no one volunteered to his offer of doing the work. I would've, but I'm like 10+ hours away. Unless I can pay him so he can fab it and have it sent here.

Why don't you just put carburators on your car and be done with it? :rolleyes:

There is NO lag with DBW. It's just another part you people want to rip out because you DON'T understand it. If you're going to go through the trouble of using the 2k2 ECU you should use ALL of the technologies it provides.

I wouldn't have a problem if it came down to using E-Gas or not. But in order to use it, I would probably need to install the entire wiring harnesses, which is why I was considering converting to cable-drive.

Couldn't we plug the wires that go to the 4th gen cam sensor, then double them and have 'em go to both 5.5 gen cam sensors?

Double the wires off the same point just doubles the resistance in the circuit...

EDIT -> Damn it...

Which would result in signal degredation...

The 4th gen cam sensor reads a totally different signal than the 3.5 cam sensors.

I'm gonna give the 2002 ECU one last chance early on next week. Here is what I'm going to attempt:

1-Plug the 2k2 ECU into the 2k2 Engine Wiring harness that is connected to all the sensors on the VQ35DE (and 2k2 MAF).

Said harness connects all the sensors on the engine and transmission, then goes to the battery on one end, and on the other end goes through the firewall and ends shortly after its entry under the dash with a plug to the ECU and some other random plugs.

2-Ignore all other 2002 wiring harness, immobilizer, and ignition switch. I'll keep the ECU in the engine bay so that it frees up the hole in the firewall (temporary).

3-Convert the VQ35DE TB into a cable driven TB with the VQ30 TB's mechanical linkage.

4-Replug everything on the 1995 including the starter, speed sensor, but excluding everything that's plugged to the engine.

5-Plug everything to the battery.

6-Start the f*cker. Or die trying.

I've got nothing to loose, really. If that doesn't work I'll go back to trying to run it off 3.0 ECU. It's worth a try.



Feel free to come up with new and inventive reasons why this isn't going to work.


EDIT: Looking at a 2002 Max ECU diagram, it seems nissan includes every possible "option" in the ECU's, and the plugs are all identical, meaning, stuff like electronically controled mounts for the auto are included in the manual ECU, just not "unlocked", so I think the ECU might function without some of its cells actually plugged (such as drive by wire, perhaps).

On the flip (negative) side, I think I might not be able to find a way around the ignition (meaning, having to use 2k2 ignition switch and such, not sure yet.

IMHO you are going to be wasting your time. If the ECM does not get the correct signal from the immobilizer, the engine will not start. That is the whole point of the immobilizer.

Why didn't you just get the ignition key and switch w/ immobilizer and the ecm from the same vehicle?

There are several wreckers around with all these components. Just because the part is not shown on car-part.com does not mean they do not have it. A lot of the wreckers I have contacted do not inventory the ignition switch and key but they are still in the car that the ecm came from.

Which is why I wanted to connect the ignition switch and starter from the 1995.

Can't you place the immobilizer with the 2k2 key in the cylinder in the "on" position, place this in a remote location, so that would be bypassed, then just start your car with the 4th gen key/cylinder.?

All options, but the ECU, immu and ignition switch have to be from the same car. I couldn't find a seller willing to sell the ECU, switch and immu together, so they are all from different cars. The dealer can reprogram this.

Your engine will crank but it will not start.

The dealer can reprogram the key/immobilizer and ecm but you will have to tow the car there for them to do it. Then you have to hope that is the only reason why your car is not starting.

Well if my car cranks I'll be happy. I just woke up so I'm gonna try to put a couple hours on it today. Problem is, I can't find the plug for the mass air flow. What I'm gonna do is leave all the wiring, including the gas pedal and everything that goes under the dash outside the car. Much easier if I make an error and have to re-locate everything.

For an 02/03 max, the MAF connector is the very last one on the end of the engine harness. It is a Gray 5 terminal female connector

Good luck with everything.

You will need to have the correct coded key in the ignition and turned to on to use the 5.5th Gen ECU in your setup. You could then wire a push button start setup for the other ECU. I think Icey came up with this setup earlier...

Honestly after looking at it today I decided to go like Tilley and run it off 3.0 ecu. Looking at it, he has basically the same mods as me (except my headers are Cattman and his are Hotshot) and he put doen 233whp on a dyno that read 10whp too low and his A/F was supposedly very sh*tty. It'll just spin less below 4k. *sigh* And I could use the extra cash from getting refunds/selling the extra stuff. I began converting the TB to cable-driven today.

i knew that someone was gonna try this mod and get stuck because everyone else that has tried it isnt talking about how they went about doing it. i thought the purpose of this forums was to share discoveries made and help promote advancement by us all. people are trying to make money off of this and its seriously hurting those that want to do it but are stuck on minor things others have solved already.

and wtf is that vslamovy(sp) kid that pulled this off? he should be around lending u some tips so u can finish this up.

Vasily answered alot of my questions and was quite helpful. But I think the price-to-time spent-to-results ratio is much greater with Tilley's way. A full 3.5 swap is, by my experience, about 1k more expensive than a full 3.5/3.0 ecu, not to mention, a much longer process.

Tilley and vasily have both been very helpful up to this point, and even though I didn't use Vasily's way, it motivated my decision.

Final word: Do not attempt a full VQ35DE swap unless you have a complete parts car, lots of downtime and alot of patience. Take it from me.

F*ck you, double post.

Do yourselves a favor and buy a VQ35 and I would strongly suggest aftermarket headers, much easier to install when doing a swap. That's pretty much the only thing you need, don't bother with the rest.

I'm not that mechanically inclined so I guess that was/is part of the problem. I pulled the 3.0 out, changed clutch, bolted the trans and headers to the 3.5 and dropped it in, exhaust system and all and had no problem with it. I also converted the TB to cable driven with TPS, but when it comes to wiring, there just is WAY too much of it on a '02. The 95 is a MUCH less complicated and straightforward car.

Also when you think about it, VTCs probably simply make you spin more in 1st and 2nd. 'Sides, when you replace them with aftermarket cams, those cams don't have VTC.

My bill so far for the swap is $905, but will probly end up being ~$1100 when everything is complete. Do you have pics of how you attached the TPS?

My bill is much higher, but that's mostly because I went all out on aftermarket stuff (Cattman headers, cat and catback, CAI, PR motor mounts, clutchnet, RSB). The engine cost me about 950$US. Everything, in US money, cost about 4k. 1k for engine, 2k for aftermarket stuff, and another 1k for ECU/MAF/Wiring.

I will probably get most of that extra 1000 back, not to mention I sold 500$ worth of old motor, maf, fogs, ect. So in the end perhaps 2.5k with my mods.

No I don't have pics of the TB, scanner's not working. Basically I sawed off the aluminum part off the 3.0 that the TPS bolts into (2 bolts).

Then I drilled a bigger hole in the gold metal piece so it fits on the 3.5 butterfly rod.

I took the TPS with the aluminum piece and placed it next to the 3.0 cable bracket. Then I made two very long metal pieces that go from the top of the TB to the very bottom, pried around as to use the holes on all four sides of the TB.

Those two long metal pieces hold the TPS and aluminum part well in place AND clear the 3.0 cable bracket so it can still move a full 90 degrees. Metal has to be fairly rigid/solid.

^^ Ahh I see what ur doin.. I will try it tomm.