00vi help!
06-19-2005, 11:08 PM
#1
00vi help!
so me and Dave Sz got the vi installed, but my car wont start. it turns over, but it wont run. we tried giving it some gas, and it would sorta stay running and immediately die. we're too tired to keep messing with it now, but tomorrow morning we're back at it. any thoughts or suggestions would be great. we've decided TPS, misrouted vacuum line, or bad grounds. we'll be trying them all out tomorrow. anything anybody else could help with would be great.
06-20-2005, 05:39 AM
#2
It's probably those budget adapter plates you bought ...
Just kidding. It sounds like a massive vacuum leak, which is very possible if you don't have the coil mount bosses ground down enough, of if the 00vi is contacting the egr bracket down underneath the throttle body.
Just kidding. It sounds like a massive vacuum leak, which is very possible if you don't have the coil mount bosses ground down enough, of if the 00vi is contacting the egr bracket down underneath the throttle body.
06-20-2005, 06:22 AM
#3
My friend had the same problem after we installed his 00VI. He used the 4th gen TPS on the 5th gen throttle body so it was out of adjustment. After i adjusted it to spec the car started up. Adjusting the TPS would be my first suggestion.
06-20-2005, 06:54 AM
#4
Originally Posted by nismology
My friend had the same problem after we installed his 00VI. He used the 4th gen TPS on the 5th gen throttle body so it was out of adjustment. After i adjusted it to spec the car started up. Adjusting the TPS would be my first suggestion.
06-20-2005, 07:01 AM
#7
Originally Posted by eckohb
once the TPS harness is disconnected, then what?
Other things to consider are torn injector o-rings and improperly seated injectors.
06-20-2005, 07:02 AM
#8
there is a little nipple on the VI coming out on the thing where the butterflies above the plug you use open the VI. does that need to be hooked up to anything? i've seen peoples' cars with vacuum lines to it, and people without vacuum lines. btw, we're using all 4th gen parts, only 5th gen VI
06-20-2005, 07:05 AM
#9
do the injectors sit the same way once the fuel rail is rotated 180 degrees? I guess thats something we didnt think about. also, there is one lonely nipple coming off the left side of the VI by itself, what does that get connected with? we're just trying to see if all our vacuum lines are correct. it doesnt sound like we have a leak, but ya never know
06-20-2005, 07:14 AM
#10
Originally Posted by eckohb
do the injectors sit the same way once the fuel rail is rotated 180 degrees? I guess thats something we didnt think about. also, there is one lonely nipple coming off the left side of the VI by itself, what does that get connected with? we're just trying to see if all our vacuum lines are correct. it doesnt sound like we have a leak, but ya never know
A nipple by itself won't create enough of a vacuum leak to cause poor running, unless maybe one of the large nipples like what the brake booster hose connects to.
I take back the suggestion about the torn injector o-ring, since you didn't have to remove the injectors from the fuel rail. It is possible that one of the large o-rings that seat the fuel rail into the lower IM may be out of place, allowing an air leak.
Other than an air leak, the only other possibility is an electrical problem (since you didn't change anything with the fuel system). Do you have all your ignition coils connected properly? Are the coils seated on the plugs properly?
06-20-2005, 07:17 AM
#11
we thought the coils were on the plugs, but we're going to try the TPS harness first, and if thats not it, go back to square one, and check everything out. we thought the coils were in right, but at this point, who knows? could bad grounds cause this? once we flipped the lower IM, we grounded the two wires to the fuel injectors. are those not good grounds?
06-20-2005, 07:45 AM
#13
Originally Posted by eckohb
we thought the coils were on the plugs, but we're going to try the TPS harness first, and if thats not it, go back to square one, and check everything out. we thought the coils were in right, but at this point, who knows? could bad grounds cause this? once we flipped the lower IM, we grounded the two wires to the fuel injectors. are those not good grounds?
06-20-2005, 07:46 AM
#14
Originally Posted by eckohb
after trying to start the car again, gas fumes were coming out of the intake resonator...dont think thats supposed to be happening. what would be causing this?
06-20-2005, 08:02 AM
#15
We dumped a bit of TB cleaner into the cylinders while the manifolds were off. They may be flooded but I think it all burned off already. The car started and ran for a few seconds last night but now nothing. Weak spark is what I'm thinking as well, although I'm not sure why that would be except that it's flooded?
06-20-2005, 09:03 AM
#16
Originally Posted by eckohb
after trying to start the car again, gas fumes were coming out of the intake resonator...dont think thats supposed to be happening. what would be causing this?
If you don't have a haynes manual i'll post the instructions on how to set the resistance values for the TPS and WOT/closed throttle position sensors to spec.
06-20-2005, 09:13 AM
#17
He said he used 4th gen everything though... so he shouldn't have touched the adjustment on the TPS, there would have been no need to... (I know I didn't need to anyways.. but maybe they messed with it)
But aside from that, I wouldn't use the fuel rails/injectors for grounds. Take the two ground connections on the front harness and run them over to a proper grounding point, such as the block ground to the right of the front bank. If you have a grounding kit this is a cinch. Otherwise, make your own leads.
BTW, the VIAS soleniod port on the front does not get a vacuum connection unless you want the power valve open all the time. It normally sees atmosphere (intake air). The power valve opens when the solenoid is switched electrically cutting off the air path and allowing vacuum from an internal tank to pass to the power valve actuator.
But aside from that, I wouldn't use the fuel rails/injectors for grounds. Take the two ground connections on the front harness and run them over to a proper grounding point, such as the block ground to the right of the front bank. If you have a grounding kit this is a cinch. Otherwise, make your own leads.
BTW, the VIAS soleniod port on the front does not get a vacuum connection unless you want the power valve open all the time. It normally sees atmosphere (intake air). The power valve opens when the solenoid is switched electrically cutting off the air path and allowing vacuum from an internal tank to pass to the power valve actuator.
06-20-2005, 09:21 AM
#18
Would it be a possibility that the plugs got fouled out when you sprayed the cleaner in? Another possibility is that the FPR vac source is inadequate (my souce was directly connected to the mani), and it's dumping too much fuel in at idle, causing the plugs to be fouled. So for sure check the plugs.
I agree with nismology, even with a vac leak, the car will still start. Did you attempt to start the car before the rpm switch install? But the symptoms point out a fuel/spark issue.
I agree with nismology, even with a vac leak, the car will still start. Did you attempt to start the car before the rpm switch install? But the symptoms point out a fuel/spark issue.
06-20-2005, 09:26 AM
#19
we tried the TPS that stephen max suggested, and it still had the same symptoms. we are looking to adjust it to spec according to the Haynes manual right now. And it didnt work either. It was set to spec. We are going to try some new spark plugs and see what happens
06-20-2005, 09:30 AM
#22
I had the same problem after installing my 02 motor in my 97. it took me a little over 3 days to find out that grounds for the fuel injectors were not grounded correctly. I had them grounded to the valve cover, where in theroy if you think about this, sit on a rubber gasket. neve completly touching the motor itself. So I moved the grounds to the timming chain cover, turned the key once & it fired up. so I would check your fuel injector grounds too.
06-20-2005, 09:36 AM
#23
Originally Posted by MAXC
I had the same problem after installing my 02 motor in my 97. it took me a little over 3 days to find out that grounds for the fuel injectors were not grounded correctly. I had them grounded to the valve cover, where in theroy if you think about this, sit on a rubber gasket. neve completly touching the motor itself. So I moved the grounds to the timming chain cover, turned the key once & it fired up. so I would check your fuel injector grounds too.
06-20-2005, 09:39 AM
#24
Originally Posted by eckohb
the fpr vac we're using is the same one that was used while the car had the stock manifold.
06-20-2005, 09:44 AM
#25
I may have missed over some info in the thread..but
Did you end up keeping your EGR, or did you close it off?
When I pulled my IM, TB, EGR, etc.. after putting it back together, a tiny EGR gasket fell underneath the car..
I had no idea til I put everything back together. The car would start.. but right after it turned over, as the revs droped back down to idle it would near instantly die..
Did you end up keeping your EGR, or did you close it off?
When I pulled my IM, TB, EGR, etc.. after putting it back together, a tiny EGR gasket fell underneath the car..
I had no idea til I put everything back together. The car would start.. but right after it turned over, as the revs droped back down to idle it would near instantly die..
06-20-2005, 09:50 AM
#26
is it ok if we take out the spark plugs, leave them open and start firing so some of the TB cleaner evaporates? the plugs were definitely wet from whatever it was down in there. we have only taken out the front ones so far to come to that conclusion. We tested them and they are receiving spark however...so how do we solve this problem?
06-20-2005, 09:53 AM
#28
Do the plugs have any distinct odor to them?
Oh yeah, I checked the stock vac line going to the stock FPR source, and it leads to underneith of the throttle body. Did you extend that and run it to the TB? If there is no vac to the FPR, you will definantly flood your plugs.
Oh yeah, I checked the stock vac line going to the stock FPR source, and it leads to underneith of the throttle body. Did you extend that and run it to the TB? If there is no vac to the FPR, you will definantly flood your plugs.
06-20-2005, 10:00 AM
#29
the plugs smell like TB cleaner. and we took a plug from daves car and my plug, and my spark seemed stronger. plugs are only 10k old. The vac from the fpr goes to the small brass tube, goes under the TB? Is it the one that has two outlets coming from the brass tube?
06-20-2005, 10:07 AM
#31
well, it's not random, it has a pattern to it. Right now the front three plugs aren't even connected and the car sounds the same as if though they were plugged in. Again, IS IT OKAY TO START THE CAR WITH THE CYLINDERS OPEN TO LET SOME OF THE CRAP EVAPORATE?
06-20-2005, 10:33 AM
#32
ok, the fpr vac goes under the tb through the T brass pipe, then comes back towards the fpr into the small white cylinder thing and into the egr or evap solenoid valve. Could I just bypass the brass pipe alltogether and run it into the white cylinder and the solenoid?
06-20-2005, 10:49 AM
#33
Originally Posted by eckohb
well, it's not random, it has a pattern to it. Right now the front three plugs aren't even connected and the car sounds the same as if though they were plugged in. Again, IS IT OKAY TO START THE CAR WITH THE CYLINDERS OPEN TO LET SOME OF THE CRAP EVAPORATE?
06-20-2005, 11:57 AM
#34
Originally Posted by eckohb
ok, the fpr vac goes under the tb through the T brass pipe, then comes back towards the fpr into the small white cylinder thing and into the egr or evap solenoid valve. Could I just bypass the brass pipe alltogether and run it into the white cylinder and the solenoid?
Do you have a vacuum hose drawing from the FSM (near the front of the EC section)? Study that and it'll become clear what each line is/needs. That's the best way to figure out how things should be routed.
06-20-2005, 01:37 PM
#35
the exposed nipple comes from the FPR vac line, do I connect it to the vac fitting on the bottom of the TB? There is already a vac line for the tb fitting but what if I T'ed the xposed one into it?
06-20-2005, 02:00 PM
#36
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...esm/a32-ec.pdf
Look at pages 16 and 26.
That particular tube should be connected via vacuum hose to a nipple at the IM throat. It should see manifold vacuum when the throttle is closed.
Look at pages 16 and 26.
That particular tube should be connected via vacuum hose to a nipple at the IM throat. It should see manifold vacuum when the throttle is closed.
06-20-2005, 03:24 PM
#37
which side of the throttle plate did you have the fpr connected to? there are a few different nipples to connect to and one is infront of the throttle plate. you will see little or no vac on that side.
06-20-2005, 06:42 PM
#40
Originally Posted by THT
Sounds to me like your vaccum sources are mixed up. Retrace them to make sure you're routing them properly.
BUT.. just for the sake of asking... did you do any re-wiring at all?